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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

hazlnut

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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

New York (CNN) -- With chants and banners, opponents of the planned construction of an Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero faced off Sunday with demonstrators in favor of the facility.

Hundreds of critics and supporters of the proposed center in New York showed up despite an overcast and drizzly sky to express their views amid the national debate over the facility.

Police estimated that supporters of the center numbered up to 250, and critics numbered about 450 during the demonstration.

A banner on the anti-center side said, "Land of the free. Stop sharia before it stops you," referring to Islamic law. Another sign read, "No mosque here. Preserve the dignity of our loved ones killed on 9/11."

How does building a Community Center over a Burlington Coat Factory effect the dignity of 9/11 victims?

Does Bruce Springstein know that these wing-nuts have hijacked his song "Born in the USA"?

I guess the Constitution is an inconvenient document...

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me, that a multi-cultured country can be so racist and xenophobic.

Check out this genius:

Another critic, Shawn Gilfeather, called it "a breeding ground for terrorists."

Where, on the basketball court or the Child Care room?? What an idiot. Thanks Glenn and Sean for dumbing down our country and wiping your ass with the Bill of Rights. 'Freedom of Religion (except Islam)'. Idiots!
 

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Two questions, How many faiths will they allow to have services in their mosque....er, uh....Community center? And, will they be teaching Shria law in that place?


j-mac
 

Jetboogieman

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Two questions, How many faiths will they allow to have services in their mosque....er, uh....Community center?

It's a community centre where anyone can go... do Muslims go into Christain Churches or Synagogues and start praying? I mean if you REALLY REALLY feel that you have to go pray in a Muslim Prayer Room be my guest Jet Pack.

And, will they be teaching Shria law in that place?


j-mac

Does it matter? I Mean surely ANY muslim place of worship COULD teach Sharia Law, why not tear them all down?
 

hazlnut

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Two questions, How many faiths will they allow to have services in their mosque....er, uh....Community center? And, will they be teaching Shria law in that place?


j-mac

Teaching Shria law? What the hell does that mean? They can teach the history and culture of their faith all they want. Just like the Catholic church, just like the Jewish Synagogue.

What you're not understanding is that the fringe-right, Newt, Sean, Glenn, having been ginning this thing up and painting an false picture of Imam and the Center.

Get better informed and then rejoin the thread.

The ignorance of people trying to associate an entire religion with extremists. Does the Spanish Inquisition = the Catholic Church? Or do clinic bombers represent all evangelicals?
 

j-mac

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It's a community centre where anyone can go... do Muslims go into Christain Churches or Synagogues and start praying? I mean if you REALLY REALLY feel that you have to go pray in a Muslim Prayer Room be my guest

then why not call it what it is? A Mosque. If you think my statement allows for Islam to practice in a Church, or Synagogue, then this is no "community center" and that term for it was only adopted to deceive people as to what its goals are.


Does it matter? I Mean surely ANY muslim place of worship COULD teach Sharia Law, why not tear them all down?


I didn't ask you if they "could" teach Shria, I asked if they were going to hold those classes within the Mosque of conquest known as Cordoba house? And yes it does matter.


j-mac
 

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I guess the Constitution is an inconvenient document to some people...

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me, that a freedom loving country can be so bigoted and politically correct...

Thanks MSNBC and MoveOn for dumbing down our country and wiping your ass with the Bill of Rights. 'Freedom of Speech and Assembly (except against Islam)'. Idiots!

Seriously Hazl, what you'r doing is no different than what they're doing. They're using their CONSTITUTIONAL right to free speech to speak against something, just as you are.
 

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Teaching Shria law? What the hell does that mean? They can teach the history and culture of their faith all they want. Just like the Catholic church, just like the Jewish Synagogue.


However it is those like yourself hazelnut on the liberal fringe that are defending this mosque as some sort of community center now, but any analogy you make is to a church, or synagogue. Interesting. But we can not call this mosque of conquest what it is, a mosque? why?


What you're not understanding is that the fringe-right, Newt, Sean, Glenn, having been ginning this thing up and painting an false picture of Imam and the Center.

What false picture are they painting, and be specific with quotes please.


Get better informed and then rejoin the thread.

is that kind of bull necessary? Why don't you try actually having a discussion instead of showing your ass all the time?


The ignorance of people trying to associate an entire religion with extremists.


Who's doing that? Your response seems a little defensive.


j-mac
 

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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York



How does building a Community Center over a Burlington Coat Factory effect the dignity of 9/11 victims?

Does Bruce Springstein know that these wing-nuts have hijacked his song "Born in the USA"?

I guess the Constitution is an inconvenient document...

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me, that a multi-cultured country can be so racist and xenophobic.

Check out this genius:



Where, on the basketball court or the Child Care room?? What an idiot. Thanks Glenn and Sean for dumbing down our country and wiping your ass with the Bill of Rights. 'Freedom of Religion (except Islam)'. Idiots!

Speaking of Glenn Beck..

Dems are protesting his insensitivity of his planned Honor rally to be held in front of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC 47 yrs. to the day of MLK's "I have a dream speech."
Dems are saying Aug. 28th is something special.

Do you see the hypocracy here?
 

hazlnut

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I guess the Constitution is an inconvenient document to some people...

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me, that a freedom loving country can be so bigoted and politically correct...

Thanks MSNBC and MoveOn for dumbing down our country and wiping your ass with the Bill of Rights. 'Freedom of Speech and Assembly (except against Islam)'. Idiots!

Seriously Hazl, what you'r doing is no different than what they're doing. They're using their CONSTITUTIONAL right to free speech to speak against something, just as you are.


Here's the point Zyphlin:

I'm all for Freedom of Speech -- but know what you're talking about or I'll exercise my 1st Amendment Rights to be very critical of your ignorant hateful ranting. (e.g. Fred Phelps)

These people who are against the Community Center, are full of Impotent Rage. They've had the truth distorted and reality all ginned up in their scared little heads. Now they're just spewing vile ignorance.

And, as I'm sure you know, there are limits to Free Speech. Should anyone cross the line and start talking about a criminal act against the Community Center in lower Manhattan... That speech is not protected.

And the ignorant, bigoted crap being spewed yesterday is just a watered down version of that. That's the point.

And if you ever want to address the real issue of associating an entire religeon with a tiny group of violent extremists, let me know. But your tired overgeneralized "moveon, Msnbc" rant is tiresome and boring.

I am the conservative in this argument. I am the one unconditionally embracing the Constitution and the law.
 

hazlnut

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Speaking of Glenn Beck..

Dems are protesting his insensitivity of his planned Honor rally to be held in front of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC 47 yrs. to the day of MLK's "I have a dream speech."
Dems are saying Aug. 28th is something special.

Do you see the hypocracy here?

Why don't you start a thread to talk about that. This one already has a topic.
 

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I think the building of the Community Center and mosque(according to CNN) will be a difficult, but beautiful step towards forgiveness and tolerance.


"New York (CNN) -- With chants and banners, opponents of the planned construction of an Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero faced off Sunday with demonstrators in favor of the facility. Hundreds of critics and supporters of the proposed center in New York showed up despite an overcast and drizzly sky to express their views amid the national debate over the facility. Police estimated that supporters of the center numbered up to 250, and critics numbered about 450 during the demonstration."
 

Barbbtx

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Why don't you start a thread to talk about that. This one already has a topic.
You brought up Glenn. There are already many threads on the Mosque.
This is about the protest of the mosque and the "impotent rage."
I was comparing one protest to another protest and what I view as hypocracy on the part of the left.
I think it fits in this thread.
 

hazlnut

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However it is those like yourself hazelnut on the liberal fringe that are defending this mosque as some sort of community center now, but any analogy you make is to a church, or synagogue. Interesting. But we can not call this mosque of conquest what it is, a mosque? why?




What false picture are they painting, and be specific with quotes please.

I guess I have to do your homework for you.

Fact-checking the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate

Here's some FACTS, I bet you didn't know:

How near? Just over two blocks. Two long blocks, in fact. The Washington Post noted that the location is "roughly half a dozen normal lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearer of the two destroyed in the attacks.”

Ros-Lehtinen's comments raised another highly controversial issue in this mosque debate — whether it is fair to call Rauf a "radical” who endorses extremism, or whether Crowley was more accurate calling him a "moderate.” We felt that was too subjective an issue to rate on the Truth-O-Meter, but we can add a few facts to the discussion.

Last year, the New York Times reported that those who have worked with Rauf described him "as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.”

In an interview with the New York Daily News in May, Rauf said, "We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it.”

"We want to rebuild this community,” Rauf said. "This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution.”

On Fox News recently, Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League — which opposes construction of the mosque so close to Ground Zero — said that "as far as we're concerned, he is what he is, a moderate imam. He certainly has spoken out against some of the extremism in the Islamic world.”

I don't want to post the whole article, but trust you will read it and get the facts straight in your head.


is that kind of bull necessary? Why don't you try actually having a discussion instead of showing your ass all the time?

j-mac, when your posts are based on incorrect information, then I have no choice but to dismiss you, as you're not adding anything of value to the thread. Get it?

Try not to take it so hard. Just get better informed and know what you're talking about before you post.





Who's doing that? Your response seems a little defensive.

If your question is: Who is trying to associate an entire religion with a tiny group of violent extremists-- um, let's see... Newt, Sean, Glenn... You.
 

hazlnut

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You brought up Glenn. There are already many threads on the Mosque.
This is about the protest of the mosque and the "impotent rage."
I was comparing one protest to another protest and what I view as hypocracy on the part of the left.
I think it fits in this thread.

But that's a false analogy.

Dems aren't the only ones who believe the Constitution must trump our hate and fear of extremists. Many conservative do too. Unfortunately, too many conservatives have been misinformed by Fox and Newt; getting bad facts only corrupts the Free Speech.

And having Glenn Beck on his soap box anywhere near the Lincoln Memorial is so laughably disturbing. Why not have Sarah Palin there, too, and completely crap on the memory of our greatest President.
 

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I guess I have to do your homework for you.

Fact-checking the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate

Here's some FACTS, I bet you didn't know:





I don't want to post the whole article, but trust you will read it and get the facts straight in your head.

the only "fact" I need is to know that without disappointment you once again rely on biased information to make your disingenuous arguments.


j-mac, when your posts are based on incorrect information, then I have no choice but to dismiss you, as you're not adding anything of value to the thread. Get it?

If you would only like to have discussion with those that agree with your ludicrous premises then I suggest you are in the wrong place. Your attempts at propaganda are laughable.

Try not to take it so hard. Just get better informed and know what you're talking about before you post.

Take it so hard? Puhleeze. you can't argue facts, or answer questions that don't agree with you so thanks for your admission on that, and consider this a stunning record in how fast a thread/debate can be lost by the OP.

If your question is: Who is trying to associate an entire religion with a tiny group of violent extremists-- um, let's see... Newt, Sean, Glenn... You.

Give me some examples please, I asked that earlier, and you didn't. Should I conclude that you don't have any?


j-mac
 

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And, as I'm sure you know, there are limits to Free Speech. Should anyone cross the line and start talking about a criminal act against the Community Center in lower Manhattan... That speech is not protected.

And who's done that?

What's that? No one?

So, you must be concerned about what they might do, not what they've done. Based on nothing other than who you THINK they and how YOU think THEY think.

Oh, lordy, lordy. How do you live with yourself, being so hateful and bigoted?
 

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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York



How does building a Community Center over a Burlington Coat Factory effect the dignity of 9/11 victims?

Does Bruce Springstein know that these wing-nuts have hijacked his song "Born in the USA"?

I guess the Constitution is an inconvenient document...

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me, that a multi-cultured country can be so racist and xenophobic.

Check out this genius:



Where, on the basketball court or the Child Care room?? What an idiot. Thanks Glenn and Sean for dumbing down our country and wiping your ass with the Bill of Rights. 'Freedom of Religion (except Islam)'. Idiots!

Multiculturalism is devisive, so I guess any existence of racism should surprise you.
 

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But that's a false analogy.

Dems aren't the only ones who believe the Constitution must trump our hate and fear of extremists. Many conservative do too. Unfortunately, too many conservatives have been misinformed by Fox and Newt; getting bad facts only corrupts the Free Speech.

And having Glenn Beck on his soap box anywhere near the Lincoln Memorial is so laughably disturbing. Why not have Sarah Palin there, too, and completely crap on the memory of our greatest President.
Lincoln wasn't our greatest president.
 

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But that's a false analogy.

Dems aren't the only ones who believe the Constitution must trump our hate and fear of extremists. Many conservative do too. Unfortunately, too many conservatives have been misinformed by Fox and Newt; getting bad facts only corrupts the Free Speech.

And having Glenn Beck on his soap box anywhere near the Lincoln Memorial is so laughably disturbing. Why not have Sarah Palin there, too, and completely crap on the memory of our greatest President.

LOL Sarah is going to be there.
What about Glenn's Constitutional rights? What about the incorrect facts that people are getting from MSNBC about his rally? They have called it a Tea Party event that will be filled with hate and Obama bashing. Those are total lies according to Glenn. It is supposed to be a non political event to bring people together. no signs and bring your kids.
If you say something like "Yea, that's what Glenn says" I'll just say "yea, that's what the Imam says."
I'm just wondering why it's ok to protest Glenn but it's somehow uncontitutional and bigotted to protest the building of a mosgue so close to ground zero that it was damaged on 9/11.
Also their original planned opening was to be on a "special" day. 9/11/2011, 10 yrs to the day we were hit by Islamic terrorists.
 

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Dems aren't the only ones who believe the Constitution must trump our hate and fear of extremists. Many conservative do too. Unfortunately, too many conservatives have been misinformed by Fox and Newt; getting bad facts only corrupts the Free Speech.

The fear, ignorance and hate is spreading. Now it's not just the mosque in Manattan that's facing this ****, but across America. I fear if it does not stop, and soon, we WILL have a holy war on our hands.

BEIRUT: The heated debate across America over the construction of the so-called ''ground zero mosque'' is reverberating across the world, with the potential to create serious diplomatic problems for the US.

Many Muslims abroad are upset by the debate, largely conducted by non-Muslims, which has grown so loud as to become a topic of discussion from Baghdad to Berlin.

On Sunday, the area around the proposed project, two blocks from the former World Trade Centre site, drew hundreds of opponents, some carrying signs associating Islam with blood, and depicting American flags.
 

BDBoop

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Dems aren't the only ones who believe the Constitution must trump our hate and fear of extremists. Many conservative do too. Unfortunately, too many conservatives have been misinformed by Fox and Newt; getting bad facts only corrupts the Free Speech.

The fear, ignorance and hate is spreading. Now it's not just the mosque in Manattan that's facing this ****, but across America. I fear if it does not stop, and soon, we WILL have a holy war on our hands.

BEIRUT: The heated debate across America over the construction of the so-called ''ground zero mosque'' is reverberating across the world, with the potential to create serious diplomatic problems for the US.

Many Muslims abroad are upset by the debate, largely conducted by non-Muslims, which has grown so loud as to become a topic of discussion from Baghdad to Berlin.

On Sunday, the area around the proposed project, two blocks from the former World Trade Centre site, drew hundreds of opponents, some carrying signs associating Islam with blood, and depicting American flags.
 

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The fear, ignorance and hate is spreading. Now it's not just the mosque in Manattan that's facing this ****, but across America. I fear if it does not stop, and soon, we WILL have a holy war on our hands.

Please tell me you are kidding. How does wanting to move a Mosque away from ground zero not forbid it from being built or recognizing the law allows them to build translate into a Holy War?

Explain yourself.
 

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The fear, ignorance and hate is spreading. Now it's not just the mosque in Manattan that's facing this ****, but across America. I fear if it does not stop, and soon, we WILL have a holy war on our hands.

BEIRUT: The heated debate across America over the construction of the so-called ''ground zero mosque'' is reverberating across the world, with the potential to create serious diplomatic problems for the US.

Many Muslims abroad are upset by the debate, largely conducted by non-Muslims, which has grown so loud as to become a topic of discussion from Baghdad to Berlin.

On Sunday, the area around the proposed project, two blocks from the former World Trade Centre site, drew hundreds of opponents, some carrying signs associating Islam with blood, and depicting American flags.

I'll be you took a drama class in college didn't you? The sky isn't falling, so there's no need to overstate the issue. If muslims can't stand a cartoon of Mohammed in the papers, they should understand the sentiments of these NYers and others.
 

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'Coz God knows there's never been religious tension across the globe before this happened. No way, no how.
 

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Here's the point Zyphlin:

I'm all for Freedom of Speech -- but know what you're talking about or I'll exercise my 1st Amendment Rights to be very critical of your ignorant hateful ranting. (e.g. Fred Phelps)

Sure, you be critical of their ranting, and i'll be critical of your hateful ignorant exaggerated and over generalized ranting as well. Welcome to America, your free speech is no more important or protected than anyone elses.

These people who are against the Community Center, are full of Impotent Rage. They've had the truth distorted and reality all ginned up in their scared little heads. Now they're just spewing vile ignorance.

Bull**** over generalization. You're showing as much "impotent rage" as most I've seen on the side opposite of you. You don't define reality, nor truth, and distortion and attempts at manipulation through the way in which things are presented or dismissed is hardly simply on one side of things. Your pathetic bull**** and hyperbole you're spewing out speaks as much of ignorance on issues as they are with your worthless and disgusting over generalizations.

And, as I'm sure you know, there are limits to Free Speech. Should anyone cross the line and start talking about a criminal act against the Community Center in lower Manhattan... That speech is not protected.

Indeed, please point out specific examples of peopel actually advocating criminal acts.

More so, why don't you check yourself as you bitch about ignorance and bigotry and condemning large groups for the actions of a few as you make ridiculous over generalizations throughout your posts and rant on like a raving lunatic about thing such as pushing for criminal actions when that is far, far, FAR from what the majority of people against this mosque are advocating. The stench of hypocrisy coming off you is overwhelming.

And the ignorant, bigoted crap being spewed yesterday is just a watered down version of that. That's the point.

Bull****, absolute bull****. You want to act like you're the "conservative" in this and that you're standing up for free speech then you say this kind of hogwash. No, saying you don't want the mosque to be built there and it shouldn't be built there is not a "watered down version" of advocating CRIMINAL action. Your pathetic attempt of implying that it is such and thus should be treated similarly in its constitutional protection is disgusting as is your attempt to even think of considering yourself conservative.

And if you ever want to address the real issue of associating an entire religeon with a tiny group of violent extremists, let me know. But your tired overgeneralized "moveon, Msnbc" rant is tiresome and boring.

No, its associating a religion with the actions of a group of violent extremists in the NAME OF THAT RELIGION and the notion of how respectful it is to those that are going to wish to visit a place that is essentially akin to a national historical site, ala the U.S.S. Arizona, to have a place in the same general metro vicinity (2 blocks, and served by the WTC subway station) that's glorifying said religion and is attempting to use that place ot tell people they need to be "understanding" while they themselves not being understanding of the tens of thousands of Americans that don't wish to have a stark reminder of the largest negative feelings of that day standing right by the location.

As I've said elsewhere, its tactless. It'd be tactless to build a bar immedietely on top of a location that just had 5 people die due to a drunk driving accident, to build a church on the land that 2 years before had an abortion clinic on it but was destroyed by a christian fanatics bomb, or to have built a museum glorifying the history of Japan right outside of Pearl Harbor's naval base 10 years after that attack.

And the very nature that the action he's taking is causing the EXACT opposite of what his stated purpose is leads one to question what is the builders actual intent.

I am the conservative in this argument. I am the one unconditionally embracing the Constitution and the law.

Bull****, you couldn't even sniff conservative. You are bitching about people exercising their first amendment rights and trying to wrap yourself in the constitution as if that makes it any better. Never once, NOT ONCE, in your entire rant did you comment on people who were specifically calling for GOVERNMENT internvention, you just bigotedly ranted against ANYONE that opposed this mosque in a general sense and how horrible they are and even implied it should be ILLEGAL for them to speak out against it.

You're a conservative if I'm god.
 
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