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Prostitution

Rich2018

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Prostitution is illegal in most US states but:


Is there any valid argument against prostitution ?
 

The Mark

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Prostitution is illegal in most US states but:


Is there any valid argument against prostitution ?
It's wrong because reasons.



Switching to serious mode, it is my opinion that prostitution should be fully legal and regulated.

Put the pimps out of business by making legal prostitution a better option.
 

MovingPictures

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Nope, there are no valid arguments for jailing people for their personal choices.
 

Slyfox696

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Prostitution is illegal in most US states but:


Is there any valid argument against prostitution ?
Yes, but I do not think they are strong enough to overcome the legalization argument.
 

maquiscat

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How do you define "valid," Rich2018?
Well religious based would be out since our laws are supposed to be secular in nature.

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Felis Leo

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Well religious based would be out since our laws are supposed to be secular in nature.

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Not being religious, I would not consider it "valid" either. However, I think we atheists do a great disservice to humanity by forgoing moral principles. It is why I remain a conservative in my moral outlook while still being a materialist. If anything, conservative morals are what can preserve society and allow greater happiness and prosperity in the here and now, because there will be no justice or reward for the downtrodden and miserable in the hereafter.

I would argue that prostitution should remain illegal on the basis that selling one's own organs should remain illegal: However regulated it may be, it creates perverse incentives that leaves the most vulnerable people open to legalized exploitation by the very worst people in society. To give one's body freely and consensually is one thing, in the same way that to give one's organs or blood to another person. To sell one's body and to commodify one's humanity is a dangerous road to go down.
 
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Felis Leo

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Nope, there are no valid arguments for jailing people for their personal choices.

In your opinion, MovingPictures, would that include trafficking in harvested organs and tissue if the people voluntarily sold their organs on the open market?
 

Felis Leo

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Yes, but I do not think they are strong enough to overcome the legalization argument.

I would want to know, Slyfox696: What in your opinion is the best argument (or arguments) for legalization? What social ill is created by keeping prostitution illegal? And what social benefit is created through its legalization?
 

The Mark

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In your opinion, MovingPictures, would that include trafficking in harvested organs and tissue if the people voluntarily sold their organs on the open market?

Perhaps we should improve the situation of those desperate enough to do so, to prevent such being considered.
 

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Not being religious, I would not consider it "valid" either. However, I think we atheists do a great disservice to humanity by forgoing moral principles. It is why I remain a conservative in my moral outlook while still being a materialist. If anything, conservative morals are what can preserve society and allow greater happiness and prosperity in the here and now, because there will be no justice or reward for the downtrodden and miserable in the hereafter.

I would argue that prostitution should remain illegal on the basis that selling one's own organs should remain illegal: However regulated it may be, it creates perverse incentives that leaves the most vulnerable people open to legalized exploitation the very worst people in society. To give one's body freely and consensually is one thing, in the same way that to give one's organs or blood to another person. To sell one's body and to commodify one's humanity is a dangerous road to go down.

Who am I to say you can't agree to have sex with someone for a steak dinner? These are those type of questions that I can see both sides. Surely don't want to see my daughter finishing a shift at the local brothel.

One can legally pay someone for a full body massage. This is pretty intimate to have someone's hand up and down your body giving you pleasure. But should it be legal to massage one's genitals? Should there be a difference from massaging one's butt cheeks and massaging one's genitalia?
I simply don't know what is the correct answer.

As for the conservative morals am not really certain what that is. We have a conservative in the office of president and need I say more?
 

Logician Man

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Not being religious, I would not consider it "valid" either. However, I think we atheists do a great disservice to humanity by forgoing moral principles. It is why I remain a conservative in my moral outlook while still being a materialist. If anything, conservative morals are what can preserve society and allow greater happiness and prosperity in the here and now, because there will be no justice or reward for the downtrodden and miserable in the hereafter.

I would argue that prostitution should remain illegal on the basis that selling one's own organs should remain illegal: However regulated it may be, it creates perverse incentives that leaves the most vulnerable people open to legalized exploitation the very worst people in society. To give one's body freely and consensually is one thing, in the same way that to give one's organs or blood to another person. To sell one's body and to commodify one's humanity is a dangerous road to go down.

Not something I would personally be interested in partaking of. That said, it would very likely eliminate untold #s of murders, it's mutual consent, tax revenue, properly regulated would reduce STDs, seems to work well in certain areas of Nevada. I say legalize it as the upside seems to heavily outweigh any downside (s). If it saves just one life, that alone makes a very good argument for legalization.......... EDIT: Post intended to thread OP in general: NOT directed at Felix ( hit wrong button before posting )
 
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The Mark

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Yes, there is one

It promotes sexual trafficking
Which is another argument for legalizing and regulating it.

Such practices would still be illegal, and certainly sex trafficking victims being forced into prostitution must remain illegal.

It'd be much easier for police to address such if legal prostitutes are more on their side, since it'd be competition undercutting them, for example.
 

sangha

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Which is another argument for legalizing and regulating it.

Such practices would still be illegal, and certainly sex trafficking victims being forced into prostitution must remain illegal.

It'd be much easier for police to address such if legal prostitutes are more on their side, since it'd be competition undercutting them, for example.

That makes a lot of sense in theory

But in reality, places that allow prostitution see an increase in sexual trafficking.
 

Felis Leo

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Which is another argument for legalizing and regulating it.

Such practices would still be illegal, and certainly sex trafficking victims being forced into prostitution must remain illegal.

It'd be much easier for police to address such if legal prostitutes are more on their side, since it'd be competition undercutting them, for example.

Here is the problem as I see it, The Mark. I do not believe there is any way to make human vice harmless. Whether we are talking about drug use, prostitution of adults or children, or gambling, the fundamental process: Someone is being exploited for someone else's gain. Whether it is the prostitute, the addict or the gambler, someone is subject to harm. That is why we call it a "vice" rather than just a hobby.

Now, of course, I have no doubt that there are some drug users who are able to control their use of hard drugs such as cocaine, heroin or methamphetamine in such a way that it does not interfere with their personal or professional lives; that there are some gamblers who never take a loss and constantly come out on top and make a grand living at what they do; that there are some prostitutes who remain clean, undamaged emotionally, psychologically and physically and unexploited from the start of their entry into the world of prostitution until their exit (if they ever do exit). But I am not certain if they are majority of the people caught in the vice, or even a plurality.
 

MovingPictures

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In your opinion, MovingPictures, would that include trafficking in harvested organs and tissue if the people voluntarily sold their organs on the open market?
If people wish to give life to others because they no longer value their own, that's their personal choice.
 

MovingPictures

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Not being religious, I would not consider it "valid" either. However, I think we atheists do a great disservice to humanity by forgoing moral principles. It is why I remain a conservative in my moral outlook while still being a materialist. If anything, conservative morals are what can preserve society and allow greater happiness and prosperity in the here and now, because there will be no justice or reward for the downtrodden and miserable in the hereafter.

I would argue that prostitution should remain illegal on the basis that selling one's own organs should remain illegal: However regulated it may be, it creates perverse incentives that leaves the most vulnerable people open to legalized exploitation by the very worst people in society. To give one's body freely and consensually is one thing, in the same way that to give one's organs or blood to another person. To sell one's body and to commodify one's humanity is a dangerous road to go down.
It's an even more dangerous road to let the rest of society start mandating what you do with your own body.

What's to stop society from forbidding you from getting a tattoo? What's to stop society from forbidding you from plastic surgery?

It's none of your business what I choose to do with my own life, so long as it doesn't infringe on your own freedoms.
 

Felis Leo

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If people wish to give life to others because they no longer value their own, that's their personal choice.

Well, if your ultimate metric of whether a policy is desirable is the freedom of personal choice that policy provides, I can completely respect that, MovingPictures. I too value freedom, because freedom allows one to engage in acts of goodness as much as it allows one to engage in acts of sin. But this is one place where I draw a strong line: I value the sanctity of human life and the principle that the law is meant to protect the shield the weak and vulnerable. As such, I am against legalizing prostitution, just as I am against legalizing the buying and selling of organs and the legalization of suicide.
 

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Prostitution is illegal in most US states but:


Is there any valid argument against prostitution ?

There are plenty of good arguments about how immoral it might be.
Yeah sure, maybe it is on some level.
Then again, maybe some people can only function through the services of a prostitute, and what you wind up with when that isn't available might be worse. Not saying I am right, not even saying that I make the best argument, just saying that I've observed the alternative, and it's every bit as ugly as prostitution, maybe uglier.

I don't envy professional sex workers, but I think that they deserve to be afforded the same simple human dignity anyone else deserves, and maybe if their dignity wasn't always under attack, the profession itself might lose at least some of its more unpleasant aspects. If professional sex workers were able to lead a decent, stable and secure life free of the Hell they face every day, and their health was regulated properly, perhaps we'd see less crime and less drug use, and less violence.
Of course we'd see a lot less disease.

You can't point to a single hotel or motel that doesn't have dirty movies, and you can't point to a single city or society that doesn't have prostitution. It has been around since the dawn of mankind. Sooner or later some societies take the issue by the horns and figure out a way to handle it being around in a manner which makes life better for ALL concerned.

Ours is one of the societies that for the most part...doesn't.
 

Felis Leo

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It's an even more dangerous road to let the rest of society start mandating what you do with your own body.

What's to stop society from forbidding you from getting a tattoo? What's to stop society from forbidding you from plastic surgery?

It's none of your business what I choose to do with my own life, so long as it doesn't infringe on your own freedoms.

I must correct you, MovingPictures. By keeping prostitution illegal, society is not telling people what they can do with their bodies. Just what they can buy and sell. Men and women can freely have sex with as many partners as they so choose. They just cannot sell themselves into sexual slavery.
 

MovingPictures

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Well, if your ultimate metric of whether a policy is desirable is the freedom of personal choice that policy provides, I can completely respect that, MovingPictures. I too value freedom, because freedom allows one to engage in acts of goodness as much as it allows one to engage in acts of sin. But this is one place where I draw a strong line: I value the sanctity of human life and the principle that the law is meant to protect the shield the weak and vulnerable. As such, I am against legalizing prostitution, just as I am against legalizing the buying and selling of organs and the legalization of suicide.
Then you don't value freedom, actually. You're only valuing freedom when it's something you condone, while making it your personal business the completely consensual choices of others.

And it's kind of odd for you to label acts you disagree with "sin" considering you're an atheist.
 

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Well, if your ultimate metric of whether a policy is desirable is the freedom of personal choice that policy provides, I can completely respect that, MovingPictures. I too value freedom, because freedom allows one to engage in acts of goodness as much as it allows one to engage in acts of sin. But this is one place where I draw a strong line: I value the sanctity of human life and the principle that the law is meant to protect the shield the weak and vulnerable. As such, I am against legalizing prostitution, just as I am against legalizing the buying and selling of organs and the legalization of suicide.

You would actually rather have a miserable terminally ill human being suffer needlessly, and possibly lose their entire family assets rather than allow them to die with dignity, be rid of the living hell, and retain assets that survivors need to live on ?
 

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Prostitution is illegal in most US states but:


Is there any valid argument against prostitution ?

Yes we have always recognized the extra ordinary role sex plays in society.

There’s a reason why we have a sex registry but not even a murderer registry
 
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