Prosecutors want boy, 12, tried as adult in school killing

[Mithrae]

In Eric Smith’s case, although he was tried as an adult, he was held in a juvenile detention facility until he turned 21, then transferred to an adult prison.

For crimes as heinous as Smith’s I have a hard time accepting 5 or 6 years off the streets. Individuals like him are best kept out of society for as long as possible, IMO.

Were you still the same person when you were 21 as when you were 13? Looks like Smith was at least eligible for parole when he was 21, so one can hope that he got a fair hearing on that and subsequent occasions.

Seems to me that if there's a problem with the juvenile justice system the appropriate thing would be to fix the juvenile justice system, not just arbitrarily pretend that some kids are adults.

 

[Outlook]

No one is saying let him go. However, life imprisonment isn't appropriate for a 12-year-old, either.

Of course think of the criminal and not the victim and his family. The victim got the death penalty. How appropriate was that?

 

[Outlook]

Really? The frontal cortex, the part of the brain that controls reasoning and impulses, develops later, while teens are guided by the emotional, reactive amygdala. It is incredulous to act as if a 12 year old is fully mature and possesses the impulse control and awareness of an adult, and even more so to claim that they should be tried as one with the punishments associated with it.

Doctor, out of the millions of minors in this country why only about 600,000 commit these horrible crimes if the frontal cortex hasn't developed? At 12 you didn't know the difference between right and wrong? LOL

 

[Manc Skipper]

So, lock up a 12-year-old forever?

We were talking about the lack of rehabilitation in the US Prison system.
I was recalling a docu about some midwest people warehouse where all the prisoners were effectively in solitary in individual cells, with very little association time. One guy regularly smeared his cell with feces, or stuffed the sink with TP to flood the landing, and it generally took a riot squad to transfer him to a clean cell, where he'd eventually get bored of whatever and do it again.
The chilling part for me was that having shown us the process, the voiceover casually mentioned that he would be released in a month's time!

Meanwhile a child is a child, whatever the crime. Trying them as an adult is about vengeance, not justice.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Doctor, out of the millions of minors in this country why only about 600,000 commit these horrible crimes if the frontal cortex hasn't developed? At 12 you didn't know the difference between right and wrong? LOL

A child lacks adult impulse control, or adult ability to forsee consequences, for example. It's barbaric to treat them other than as children.

 

[Cope]

12 is simply too young to be tried as an adult. Held as a minor and then later evaluated for remorse and/or rehabilitation, YES.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Were you still the same person when you were 21 as when you were 13?

Were you a sadistic murderer that bashed in a little 4 year old boy’s skull with a rock, then shoved sticks up his anus, and poured Kool-Aid over his broken open skull?

That’s who Erick Smith was.

Seems to me that if there's a problem with the juvenile justice system the appropriate thing would be to fix the juvenile justice system, not just arbitrarily pretend that some kids are adults.

Nobody arbitrarily pretended anything. Another foolish, biased assumption on your part.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

12 years old is not even close to an adult yet. Why have minor/adult charges if you are arbitrarily going to change it?

This is the problem when people in the justice system get rewarded for pleasing the public with 'tough on crime' actions. It makes the idea of laws for children meaningless in the case.

Yup, complete moronic bullshit to pander to the cowards. Tough on crime for decades and all you get is disproportionately heavy minorities wiht ridiculous sentences and a disgusting rate of imprisonment for the supposed "land of the free". And no rehabilitation what so ever, and once have served their time they are treated as pariahs

I also think its bullshit to have DAs be elected positions, talk about using politics to screw up someone's life, they get aggressive and go for really high charges to pander for politics

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Really? The frontal cortex, the part of the brain that controls reasoning and impulses, develops later, while teens are guided by the emotional, reactive amygdala. It is incredulous to act as if a 12 year old is fully mature and possesses the impulse control and awareness of an adult, and even more so to claim that they should be tried as one with the punishments associated with it.

Ever heard the legal term “age of reason”?

Age of reason means the age at which a
person is legally capable of committing a crime or tort as s/he can distinguish right from wrong. The age of reason varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Normally, seven years is usually the age below which a child is conclusively presumed not to have committed a crime or tort. And, 14 years is usually the age below which a rebuttable presumption applies.

Age of Reason Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Age of reason means the age at which a person is legally capable of committing a crime or tort as s/he can distinguish right from wrong. The age of reason varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

definitions.uslegal.com

Legal definitions and excuses involving biology aside, Eric Smith damn well knew that his horrific, evil actions were wrong in every sense of the word.

His case was not comparable to other “common” crimes committed by minors, and should not be viewed from the perspective of “kids don’t always know better”.

 

[Chillfolks]

So, lock up a 12-year-old forever?

Depends, if that 12 year old shows no signs of rehabilitation and continues the cycle of violence then they should not be released into public. Its really up to the kid.

 

[justabubba]

Estimated number of juvenile arrests, 2020

Law Enforcement & Juvenile Crime: Law enforcement agencies are a gateway to the juvenile justice system, and the arrest statistics maintained by law enforcement are the most frequently cited source of information on juvenile crime trends. This section provides access to detailed Uniform Crime...

www.ojjdp.gov

When a minor commits these serious crimes, he is acting like an adult and should be treated as one.
At 12 years old he knows the difference between right and wrong.

I would be interested in his home life.

my assumption is since you assert the 12 year old should be treated as an adult he should also be locked up in the general prison population of adults, too?

 

[vanceen]

Black and white lines are a bit iffy, but certainly no-one under the age of 15 or so.

Of course black and white lines are eternally debatable, but sometimes they have to exist.

We don't enter into a statutory rape prosecution with a deliberation about whether the girl was actually unusually mature, or experienced, or whatever. We set an age limit and say that people under that age can not give sexual consent by definition. Sure, it's true that many people younger than the legal age of consent may be fully mature enough to make the decision, and many people older than the age of consent may not be. But the alternative to setting a "black and white" line the best we can is to carry out an extended psych evaluation on the victim before deciding there are charges to be pressed.

Decisions to prosecute minors as adults seem to be for the most part even worse than the scenario I just described. As far as I can tell, minors are usually tried as adults when their crimes are particularly horrendous. But that makes no sense at all. The enormity of an act says nothing about the mental accountability of the perpetrator.

 

[Mithrae]

Were you a sadistic murderer that bashed in a little 4 year old boy’s skull with a rock, then shoved sticks up his anus, and poured Kool-Aid over his broken open skull?

That’s who Erick Smith was.

Emotionalism notwithstanding, 'sadistic' involves the capacity to understand and enjoy others' pain. Most if not all 12 or 13 year olds have only partially developed that kind of empathy even in the best of circumstances, development which could be further stunted by abusive environments. Heck, we live in a world where most adults happily support by their purchases incredibly cruel treatment of hundreds of livestock animals over the years, or support wars of aggression against countries in the Middle East affecting millions, or wilfully contribute towards dismantling the environmental and climate conditions which billions of our grandchildren would have needed to live as well as we have. The biggest difference is that in the latter cases concern over those incalculable cruelties is blunted by distance or abstraction, rather than age or abuse. Fixing problems with people's behaviour requires first and foremost trying to really understand them, in the way that they have often failed to really understand others and the consequences of their actions; and it seems pretty obvious that any 13 year old kid who'd do things like that is a boy who was broken, sick, not just some kind of evil soul (if such a thing even exists).

Was he helped to get better any faster by being put through an adult trial and sentencing? Or was that more of a retributive gesture?

Nobody arbitrarily pretended anything. Another foolish, biased assumption on your part.

If there's a problem with the juvenile justice system, seems to me the appropriate thing would be to fix the juvenile justice system. Semantic quibbling doesn't change the fact that treating a 13 year old as an adult is both fundamentally wrong and obviously absurd.

 

[lwf]

Estimated number of juvenile arrests, 2020

Law Enforcement & Juvenile Crime: Law enforcement agencies are a gateway to the juvenile justice system, and the arrest statistics maintained by law enforcement are the most frequently cited source of information on juvenile crime trends. This section provides access to detailed Uniform Crime...

www.ojjdp.gov

When a minor commits these serious crimes, he is acting like an adult and should be treated as one.
At 12 years old he knows the difference between right and wrong.

I would be interested in his home life.

Should we also lower the drinking age to 12? How about the age of consent?

 

[Mithrae]

Decisions to prosecute minors as adults seem to be for the most part even worse than the scenario I just described. As far as I can tell, minors are usually tried as adults when their crimes are particularly horrendous. But that makes no sense at all. The enormity of an act says nothing about the mental accountability of the perpetrator.

I don't particularly disagree; it's possible (some would say probable or certain) that more or less all major crimes must necessarily be a consequence of some neurological or psychological problem, if not age then something else, and intelligent societies should be striving to improve our rehabilitation capabilities rather than retributive measures.

On the other hand, the enormity of an act does speak to the likely depth and potential intractibility those problems. And one could legitimately argue that while minors might not be mentally developed enough to make more nuanced decisions/judgements like alcohol, sex or even petty crimes, the most horrendous acts are so obviously wrong that being a little on the young side is no excuse. That said, as in my subsequent posts I'd say the appropriate action is to fix the juvenile justice system to account for cases like that, not to treat kids like adults.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Emotionalism notwithstanding, 'sadistic' involves the capacity to understand and enjoy others' pain. Most if not all 12 or 13 year olds have only partially developed that kind of empathy even in the best of circumstances, development which could be further stunted by abusive environments. Heck, we live in a world where most adults happily support by their purchases incredibly cruel treatment of hundreds of livestock animals over the years, or support wars of aggression against countries in the Middle East affecting millions, or wilfully contribute towards dismantling the environmental and climate conditions which billions of our grandchildren would have needed to live as well as we have. The biggest difference is that in the latter cases concern over those incalculable cruelties is blunted by distance or abstraction, rather than age or abuse. Fixing problems with people's behaviour requires first and foremost trying to really understand them, in the way that they have often failed to really understand others and the consequences of their actions; and it seems pretty obvious that any 13 year old kid who'd do things like that is a boy who was broken, sick, not just some kind of evil soul (if such a thing even exists).

Another @Mithrae alt reality, sesquipedalian, meandering word salad rebuttal.

Eric Smith knew exactly what he was doing, and understood that it was wrong.

None of your absurd defenses cancels, or even mitigates his responsibility for his own actions.

Was he helped to get better any faster by being put through an adult trial and sentencing? Or was that more of a retributive gesture?

There is no cure for sociopathy.

If there's a problem with the juvenile justice system, seems to me the appropriate thing would be to fix the juvenile justice system. Semantic quibbling doesn't change the fact that treating a 13 year old as an adult is both fundamentally wrong and obviously absurd.

And we continue to disagree.

 

[Mithrae]

Another @Mithrae alt reality, sesquipedalian, meandering word salad rebuttal.

Not sure where this hostility is coming from. Do I need to use smaller words?

Eric Smith knew exactly what he was doing, and understood that it was wrong.

None of your absurd defenses cancels, or even mitigates his responsibility for his own actions.

Well, we're narrowing down some options, at least. When you hear about a 13 year old kid who "bashed in a little 4 year old boy’s skull with a rock, then shoved sticks up his anus, and poured Kool-Aid over his broken open skull", it seems your conclusion is that
A) these are the actions of a more or less normal, healthy kid who simply decided one day do that stuff, or
B) he just has an irredeemably evil soul, or
C) this was a boy who was broken or sick, who if possible should be helped, rather than hated and further punished

There is no cure for sociopathy.

If that's your professional diagnosis then why are you apparently supporting his trial as an adult with no mention of psychiatric evaluation and treatment, and eventual release back into society after having served a standard sentence? While there's no cure, treatment options for antisocial personality disorder and particularly violent or psychotic episodes are available. They'd more likely be available and effective under an initial recognition that there's something wrong with this kid, however, rather than treating him like a healthy person - a healthy adult, no less - who'd done the same thing, under some kind of 'tough on crime' virtue signalling.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Not sure where this hostility is coming from. Do I need to use smaller words?

Not smaller words. Fewer words. Try restraining yourself self from unnecessary and irrelevant bloviating.

Well, we're narrowing down some options, at least. When you hear about a 13 year old kid who "bashed in a little 4 year old boy’s skull with a rock, then shoved sticks up his anus, and poured Kool-Aid over his broken open skull", it seems your conclusion is that
A) these are the actions of a more or less normal, healthy kid who simply decided one day do that stuff, or
B) he just has an irredeemably evil soul, or
C) this was a boy who was broken or sick, who if possible should be helped, rather than hated and further punished

Smith murdered a 4 year old little boy and sodomized his dead body then, four days after the murder, Smith visited a police station to see if he could assist in solving the crime.

"[He] totally enjoyed it. Totally enjoyed it. Didn't want it to end," says investigator John Hibsch, who repeatedly talked with Smith, and had no idea the killer was sitting right in front of him. "He's looking right at me. He's very upbeat, very happy. He likes the fact that he's being talked to."

Why Did Eric Kill?

<B>Dan Rather</B> Talks To Teen Killer About Why He Killed A 4-Year-Old Boy

www.cbsnews.com

“Evil” is a subjective term. I understand that, perfectly. IMO, It is the best, most fitting description for Smith’s actions.

If that's your professional diagnosis then why are you apparently supporting his trial as an adult with no mention of psychiatric evaluation and treatment, and eventual release back into society after having served a standard sentence? While there's no cure, treatment options for antisocial personality disorder and particularly violent or psychotic episodes are available. They'd more likely be available and effective under an initial recognition that there's something wrong with this kid, however, rather than treating him like a healthy person - a healthy adult, no less - who'd done the same thing, under some kind of 'tough on crime' virtue signalling.

A PhD or MD isn’t required to recognize the abhorrent act of a person with a defective brain.

 

[donhughesmusic]

https://thetandd.com/news/state-and...cle_49c05443-8570-5042-b4ac-26161c424a49.html

So, how young is too young to try a person as an adult? I think that the crime he committed is abhorrent, but at 12, he should not be tried as an adult...because he isn't even close to being an adult. I cannot fathom locking up a child of 12 years for the rest of their natural lives.

Prosecutors say a 12-year-old boy accused of fatally shooting his classmate in a South Carolina middle school hallway should be tried as an adult on a murder charge​

GREENVILLE, S.C. (AP) — A 12-year-old boy accused of fatally shooting his classmate in a South Carolina middle school hallway should be tried as an adult on a murder charge, prosecutors told a judge Monday.
The prosecutors' request to move the case out of Family Court did not include any explanation regarding why the boy should be charged as an adult. Murder carries a sentence of 30 years to life in prison in South Carolina. If he is convicted as a juvenile, he couldn't be kept in jail after he turns 22.

Jamari Cortez Bonaparte Jackson was shot during a class change at Tanglewood Middle School in Greenville on March 31.

The suspect left school in the chaos but was found hiding under a nearby deck about an hour later and was still armed, investigators said.

The vast majority of kids know not to kill their classmates at 12 years old.

 

[ClaraD]

The vast majority of kids know not to kill their classmates at 12 years old.

yes, but none of them can comprehend the consequences of such an act.

 

[ClaraD]

Depends, if that 12 year old shows no signs of rehabilitation and continues the cycle of violence then they should not be released into public. Its really up to the kid.

prison isn't about rehabilitation....you know that right?

 

[donhughesmusic]

yes, but none of them can comprehend the consequences of such an act.

How can't they? How much simpler do they want it? If you take a life, you go to prison for a very long time. I can even type it with more space in between the words

If... you... take... a... life... you... go... to... prison... for... a... very... long... time.

 

[ClaraD]

How can't they? How much simpler do they want it? If you take a life, you go to prison for a very long time. I can even type it with more space in between the words

If... you... take... a... life... you... go... to... prison... for... a... very... long... time.

children, even younger teens think of things in short, simplistic terms not in longer terms or the consequences of decisions they make. Children and teens are notorious for making bad decisions and not having very good judgment, because they are not mature.

 

[donhughesmusic]

children, even younger teens think of things in short, simplistic terms not in longer terms or the consequences of decisions they make. Children and teens are notorious for making bad decisions and not having very good judgment, because they are not mature.

In case you didn't notice. Adults do that too.

 

[ChickenTendies]

Ever heard the legal term “age of reason”?

Age of reason means the age at which a
person is legally capable of committing a crime or tort as s/he can distinguish right from wrong. The age of reason varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Normally, seven years is usually the age below which a child is conclusively presumed not to have committed a crime or tort. And, 14 years is usually the age below which a rebuttable presumption applies.

Age of Reason Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Age of reason means the age at which a person is legally capable of committing a crime or tort as s/he can distinguish right from wrong. The age of reason varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

definitions.uslegal.com

Legal definitions and excuses involving biology aside, Eric Smith damn well knew that his horrific, evil actions were wrong in every sense of the word.

Don't know what that case is and irrelevant to this one.

His case was not comparable to other “common” crimes committed by minors, and should not be viewed from the perspective of “kids don’t always know better”.

This is contrary to the facts that say juveniles are not mentally mature and lack impulse control, so to make such claims is patently false.