Prosecutors charge 19 in North Carolina with voter fraud yesterday

[RAMOSS]

I agree some are grasping for straws. Voter fraud had not been a big deal in the US.

I am more concerned with the President telling people to vote twice. (mail in a ballot then go vote in person).

Well, it's very stupid for any elected official to tell people to break the law. But, well. you know Trump

 

[Captain America]

Almost no attention is paid to voter fraud enforcement. The democrats claim there’s zero fraud but then block every effort to investigate it.

So 19 cases are likely only the very tip
Of the iceberg

Are you purposely trying to get this thread flushed down to the Conspiracy Theory section?

 

[mike2810]

I’m not talking about 2016, I mean now states sending out ballots w/o an absentee ballot request.

I will ask a different way.

For the 2020 election, Provide a link that says ballots were sent out. I know ballot request forms were mailed out to some. Even President Trump had a mail in ballot request along with the donation letter.

So prove it was ballots that were being mailed out and not a mail in ballot request?

Pretty hard to mail out the general election ballot when the primaries were just completed.

 

[mike2810]

Well, it's very stupid for any elected official to tell people to break the law. But, well. you know Trump

and people in shadows are controlling Biden. The more Trump tweets or speaks the bigger the hole gets.

 

[BlueTex]

All of these were charged with violations in the 2016 election. In 2016 in the presidential election, North Carolina had 4,551,947 votes cast. If every one of these are guilty, they represented 0.000417403805449% of the votes cast.

 

[US&THEM]

If I was a defense attorneys for any of these defendants, I would be doing a LOT of discovery...

Barr has really sold his soul for Trump. I am honestly shocked how forward Barr is with his blatant political bs. Disheartening to say the least.

 

[tres borrachos]

All of these were charged with violations in the 2016 election. In 2016 in the presidential election, North Carolina had 4,551,947 votes cast. If every one of these are guilty, they represented 0.000417403805449% of the votes cast.

It's bigger than #Hairgate.

 

[JasperL]

Almost no attention is paid to voter fraud enforcement. The democrats claim there’s zero fraud but then block every effort to investigate it.

So 19 cases are likely only the very tip
Of the iceberg

Of course your second statement is a lie - no democrat claims "there's zero fraud," but you wouldn't be you if you didn't argue from a dishonest starting point. The rest of your statement is also a lie, or ignorant, or both.

You do know, of course, that most states are run by Republicans, and the DoJ is run by Republicans. The Bush USAs spent years trying to find evidence of widespread "voter fraud" and couldn't. There's been a massive effort to uncover 'voter fraud' by the GOP and this is what we get. Millions of votes cast, 19 cases of "voter fraud."

And if you want to claim Democrats are blocking those efforts in red states, with a GOP DoJ, with USAs in every state, with jurisdiction over every locality, what's your evidence? Something you pulled from your backside is my guess.

 

[gdgyva]

Sure, I guess, insert a biochip into all of us, and require us all to show up in person and have that biometric chip read, then somehow confirm that the JasperL that is standing in front of the old lady manning the voting booth is the same one registered. And then make voter registration like getting a passport, so costing $millions or billions to reverify every voter in the U.S. etc......

"Eliminating" fraud isn't even a reasonable goal. The cost would be immense, the time immense, the waste of resources immense, and it would result in at least millions kicked off the voting rolls because they're unable to provide the documents needed to "eliminate" fraud. And you'd require the kind of equipment used at airport terminals, equivalent ID, and trained staff, not the volunteers, mostly elderly, who staff most voting precincts by the 10s of thousands. And even passports don't eliminate 'fraud' nor will the new secure ID.

A reasonable goal is to keep "voter fraud" to very small levels, and in a state with millions of votes cast, 19 alleged cases of fraud flies through that test. I can't imagine spending $10s of millions, easy, every election, to reduce that 19 to 1 or 2 or 0.



See above, but we know that tightening up restrictions to pursue "fraud free" will absolutely mean that millions of citizens eligible to vote cannot get certified. Or if you don't believe it's millions nationwide, then at the least many thousands. So any reasonable proposal to try to reduce rates of fraud must at a minimum quantify that downside - it's been done in court - and then see if taking 19 or 50 or 100 fraudulent votes to zero is a good trade for making sure thousands can no longer vote because they can't clear the verification process. How many eligible voters is it worth to kick off the rolls to prevent 1 fraudulent vote? 100? 1,000? 10,000?

if they were certified once, they can get certified again

if the state has to to help with costs to procure a birth certificate, so be it

i want everyone enrolled....but i also want it all locked down as much as possible

and when has COST ever been an issue when dealing with an issue your side wanted? it never is....

but something you dont want, and COST is the first thing out of your mouth's.....

 

[gdgyva]

We can't even stop identity theft happening to millions every year, yet we are supposed to stop fraudulent voting completely that barely happens a few hundred times in an election season?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

how do you know it ONLY happens a few hundred times every election season?

seriously....

i know that is the people CAUGHT

but WHO is truly looking for voter fraud? and HOW are they looking for it?

without a true system for looking for it, how do we REALLY KNOW

the majority think we dont have much of a problem only because no real agency is actually LOOKING for these crimes actively, nor are they given parameters on HOW to look....

the people that are caught are just stupid ones, that make mistakes and mostly catch themselves

 

[digitusmedius]

I mean there’s no details about the case at all so how am I to judge this “that’s all” question of yours?

The OPer don't need no stinkin' details.

 

[switt]

Vote early and often.

 

[Middle_Ground]

Haven't read anywhere these people are illegal residents in the country they are legal residents whom are not citizens.

Not sure why North Carolina has so many problems.
Wasn't it last year a son testified against his father about voter fraud.

 

[BlueTex]

how do you know it ONLY happens a few hundred times every election season?

seriously....

i know that is the people CAUGHT

but WHO is truly looking for voter fraud? and HOW are they looking for it?

without a true system for looking for it, how do we REALLY KNOW

the majority think we dont have much of a problem only because no real agency is actually LOOKING for these crimes actively, nor are they given parameters on HOW to look....

the people that are caught are just stupid ones, that make mistakes and mostly catch themselves

Why has the Trump administration not been investigating this the 3.5 years? Let's use North Carolina as an example.. In 2016 4,551,947 people voted for one of the presidential candidates. Let's say 1% of those voters was fraudulent... That would be 45,520 fraudulent voters. How do you get 45,520 people to commit a crime and not a word has leaked?

 

[Razoo]

Prosecutors charge 19 in North Carolina with voter fraud

(Federal prosecutors in North Carolina announced voter fraud charges Wednesday against 19 non-citizens accused of illegally casting a ballot in 2016.

A conviction of voting by a non-citizen, a misdemeanor, carries a maximum term of one year imprisonment, a fine not to exceed $100,000, or both.)

MISDEMEANOR?

Really? Thats all?

I wonder how many are drawing SS too? Many are over 62.

How suddenly convenient and took from 2016 to present = a very stinky and most likely fraudulent situation. Typical of conservatives ....... being stinky and fraudulent.

Any hard evidence? Any phoney evidence = most likely.

 

[JasperL]

if they were certified once, they can get certified again

if the state has to to help with costs to procure a birth certificate, so be it

That's just the start of the massive costs needed to "eliminate" fraud. Are you changing your mind and instead of eliminating it, spending massive sums to reduce the 'voter fraud' rate from 19 to 2 or 3?

i want everyone enrolled....but i also want it all locked down as much as possible

Those are competing goals. Locking it down means TSA style security at the polls, not the kind at domestic airports, but at international airports, passports for everyone. You good with that?

and when has COST ever been an issue when dealing with an issue your side wanted? it never is....

And I thought government wasting $100s of millions at least nationwide mattered to you 'conservatives.' Guess not.

See, we can both play this dumb game.

but something you dont want, and COST is the first thing out of your mouth's.....

Does cost and a MASSIVE waste of time and resources to get a trivial 'voter fraud' rate down further matter to you or not?

I also mentioned that the kind of security needed to reduce fraud to near zero would disenfranchise at least 100s of thousands. So how many citizens are you OK kicking off the roles to get that fraud rate from trivial to more trivial (if that's even a term)? 100 kicked off for every 1 case of 'voter fraud'? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000?

 

[gdgyva]

Why has the Trump administration not been investigating this the 3.5 years? Let's use North Carolina as an example.. In 2016 4,551,947 people voted for one of the presidential candidates. Let's say 1% of those voters was fraudulent... That would be 45,520 fraudulent voters. How do you get 45,520 people to commit a crime and not a word has leaked?

How would the Trump admin investigate this?

Under what agency?

Under what rules?

Since ID's arent required everywhere, how do you determine if the person who voted was who they say they were?

This is what many of us are saying....there is NO WAY to actually even determine IF we have a real problem....

Nothing is 100% foolproof....but wouldnt it be nice to know we are close when it comes to electing our government representatives

The vast majority of voters are capable of getting to a polling station....

We would have to make exceptions for those that are incapacitated, away from home due to school/military, and other such reasonable excuses

 

[BlueTex]

How would the Trump admin investigate this?

Under what agency?

Under what rules?

Since ID's arent required everywhere, how do you determine if the person who voted was who they say they were?

This is what many of us are saying....there is NO WAY to actually even determine IF we have a real problem....

Nothing is 100% foolproof....but wouldnt it be nice to know we are close when it comes to electing our government representatives

The vast majority of voters are capable of getting to a polling station....

We would have to make exceptions for those that are incapacitated, away from home due to school/military, and other such reasonable excuses

The same federal laws that these prosecutions have resulted in...

 

[JasperL]

how do you know it ONLY happens a few hundred times every election season?

seriously....

i know that is the people CAUGHT

but WHO is truly looking for voter fraud? and HOW are they looking for it?

without a true system for looking for it, how do we REALLY KNOW

the majority think we dont have much of a problem only because no real agency is actually LOOKING for these crimes actively, nor are they given parameters on HOW to look....

We also think there isn't much of a problem because there is simply no evidence, of any kind, anywhere, of a 'voter fraud' problem that rises above the trivial. And Bush's USAs did look, and found nothing. Trump's voter commission looked, and found nothing. And who isn't giving unknown agencies "parameters on HOW to look?" Who should be providing these unknown people the parameters? Lots of people are invested in the idea of massive fraud - example, you - so why can't anyone figure out how to uncover this stuff?

It's no different than the majority believing there isn't much of a problem with alien abductions, because there is no evidence that happens more than a handful of times a year, according to what I read on the internet, which is true I'm sure. We could also argue that no one is looking for evidence of alien abductions and so we just don't know, but that's not evidence OF alien abductions, and neither is your argument about voter fraud.

the people that are caught are just stupid ones, that make mistakes and mostly catch themselves

That's kind of the point. Voting illegally is always stupid, because the risks are high - felony, jail time, if an immigrant deportation, etc. - and the payoff for that ONE vote roughly zero. For that vote to have a meaningful chance of impacting elections requires a conspiracy involving at least 100s of voters, 10s of thousands for big state races, and there's been no evidence of such a conspiracy, ever, involving voters.

The real risk is always insiders, not voters. Insiders can hack machines or the count, kick eligible people off the voting rolls, close voting locations in busy areas, creating hours long lines that many simply cannot wait in because of jobs or family obligations, impose poll taxes or voter qualification tests to discourage the poor, etc. All those impact orders of magnitude more voters than all the known 'voter fraud' for the past DECADE.

 

[Helix]

Maybe they can get community service helping NC Republican operatives to collect ballots.

 

[ludin]

Prosecutors charge 19 in North Carolina with voter fraud

(Federal prosecutors in North Carolina announced voter fraud charges Wednesday against 19 non-citizens accused of illegally casting a ballot in 2016.

A conviction of voting by a non-citizen, a misdemeanor, carries a maximum term of one year imprisonment, a fine not to exceed $100,000, or both.)

MISDEMEANOR?

Really? Thats all?

I wonder how many are drawing SS too? Many are over 62.

posh voter fraud doesn't exist.

 

[JasperL]

posh voter fraud doesn't exist.

No one but dumb right wingers makes that argument.

 

[ludin]

No one but dumb right wingers makes that argument.

No, that is dumb left wingers that have been telling us for years that voter fraud doesn't happen.
as usual we can easily see that well leftist were wrong yet again go figure on that one.

 

[JasperL]

No, that is dumb left wingers that have been telling us for years that voter fraud doesn't happen.
as usual we can easily see that well leftist were wrong yet again go figure on that one.

No one on "the left" argues voter fraud doesn't exist or doesn't happen. :shrug:

Right wingers fabricate that straw man because it's a lazy, and simple minded way to argue. Any evidence of voter fraud, no matter how trivial, is then evidence that THE LIBERALS WERE WRONG!!! See, this thread.

What "left wingers" point out routinely is that voter fraud is trivial in numbers. 19 possible cases of fraud of about 5 million votes for the state of NC qualifies as trivial. But to argue the point honestly, you'd have to make the case that 19 possible cases of fraud isn't trivial, but hugely significant, that we should invest more resources to get the error rate from 0.000004 (0.0004%) to maybe 0.000001 (0.0001%).

It's easier to make up our position, then attack the position you made up!

 

[ludin]

No one on "the left" argues voter fraud doesn't exist or doesn't happen. :shrug:

Right wingers fabricate that straw man because it's a lazy, and simple minded way to argue. Any evidence of voter fraud, no matter how trivial, is then evidence that THE LIBERALS WERE WRONG!!! See, this thread.

What "left wingers" point out routinely is that voter fraud is trivial in numbers. 19 possible cases of fraud of about 5 million votes for the state of NC qualifies as trivial. But to argue the point honestly, you'd have to make the case that 19 possible cases of fraud isn't trivial, but hugely significant, that we should invest more resources to get the error rate from 0.000004 (0.0004%) to maybe 0.000001 (0.0001%).

It's easier to make up our position, then attack the position you made up!

wow when you guys lose you continue to double down on the stupid and jump off the cliff.
You leftist have been screaming for months that there is no evidence of voter fraud that it is fake news that it doesn't occur.

Time to stop drinking the koolaid and accept facts.

Voter fraud has been happening and has been going on for a while now.