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Proposition 8 Dies with a Whimper.

Honestly, I hope your right.

But
right now from where I'm looking from, the sistuation is in doubt.[/
QUOTE]




The USA won't last forever, but it has a long ways to go and it will be on top for most of that time.

The future will be better than today.
 
You've forgotten that we're also a republic. No amount of majority can vote away the rights of a minority.

Would you be saying the same thing if this were a bill that prevented african americans from voting or having guns? It would be the will of the people, right?

Yeah but Rabid, the problem is WHO defines the rights of the minority?

Some of us think the judiciary has way too much power to interpret the law according to their own political leanings.
 
I don't give a crap about what "the people" want, I care about liberty. When "the people" decide to constrain the individual on an issue that doesn't affect "the people" in any way shape or form, I will always be all for the courts telling "the people" to stuff it.

If you don't want to be ruled by "the people" then don't live in a democracy. Move to France, where homosexuality is encouraged.
 
If you don't want to be ruled by "the people" then don't live in a democracy. Move to France, where homosexuality is encouraged.

I don't want to be ruled by "the people," which is why I'm glad I don't live in a democracy. It's one of the things I've always liked best about the United States.
 
If you don't want to be ruled by "the people" then don't live in a democracy. Move to France, where homosexuality is encouraged.

If you want more democracy, move to another country where the mob can descend upon the minority as it so pleases. Here we put up restrictions on the plebs and demagogues.
 
I don't want to be ruled by "the people," which is why I'm glad I don't live in a democracy. It's one of the things I've always liked best about the United States.

I don't see any way that faux-kritarchy is superior to democracy. That's too much power in the hands of unelected elites for my tastes.... and that has nothing to do with proposition 8, which I am indifferent about.
 
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I don't see any way that faux-kritarchy is superior to democracy. That's too much power in the hands of unelected elites for my tastes.... and that has nothing to do with proposition 8, which I am indifferent about.

We need unelected elites to protect against democratic institutions. Checks and balances, mate. I know mass democrats have a problem with that simple concept, but elitism is needed.
 
I don't see any way that faux-kritarchy is superior to democracy. That's too much power in the hands of unelected elites for my tastes.... and that has nothing to do with proposition 8, which I am indifferent about.

Not all judges are appointed, some are elected (although I wish they weren't). Aside from that, we are not ruled by judges, they simply have their share of the authority in government, just like the legislative and executive have their share respectively. If we were ruled by judges, there would (just for starters) be no such thing as mandatory minimums or 3 strikes.
 
America will look more like South Africa. Our major urban cities will be more like how L.A. is portrayed in the movie "blade Runner."

In 2050 over half who are living in America will look at the DP archives and all of the words will look like gibberish to them.

In 2050 I will being pushing 150. I will be ashamed when I'm standing in front of the gates of Heaven knowing that I failed and America is in worse shape than when our fathers handed America over to us.

I guess we couldn't fill their boots.

So, you were born circa 1900 and so are about 113 today.

The rest is as questionable as your math.
 
So, you were born circa 1900 and so are about 113 today.

The rest is as questionable as your math.

I didn't say I would be 150, I said that I would be pushing 150. With the advancement being made in medicine and surgery, who knows.
But then again, If America is going to be like living in South Africa today, do I even want to be around ?

I haven't even had a sniffle in the past ten years.
 
I didn't say I would be 150, I said that I would be pushing 150. With the advancement being made in medicine and surgery, who knows.
But then again, If America is going to be like living in South Africa today, do I even want to be around ?

I haven't even had a sniffle in the past ten years.

Where the minority is persecuting the majority? I find that strange since in this regard, it was the minority that was being persecuted by the many.
 
To those saying it denies the majority, even though i think we need *less* democracy, this law was back in 2008. If it were up for ballot today, it would have no chance of passing.
 
To those saying it denies the majority, even though i think we need *less* democracy, this law was back in 2008. If it were up for ballot today, it would have no chance of passing.
That's a nice thing, and it makes it extra dead. A waste of time and money Mormon Church. For that I am very pleased.
 
Yeah but Rabid, the problem is WHO defines the rights of the minority?

Some of us think the judiciary has way too much power to interpret the law according to their own political leanings.

I'd rather have them deciding it than your god. At least these judges are made of flesh.

I didn't say I would be 150, I said that I would be pushing 150. With the advancement being made in medicine and surgery, who knows.
But then again, If America is going to be like living in South Africa today, do I even want to be around ?

I haven't even had a sniffle in the past ten years.

Yes, historians will dig into the DP archives to figure out what happened.

"Here's the answer! Some guy named APACHERAT warned us if we let the gays marry, our society would crumble! Oh why didn't we listen!?"

Is your buddy jesus going to destroy us all because we didn't discriminate as hard as you want us to?
 
How can a Constitutional right be taken away if it wasn't a right to begin with ?

You seem to be so blinded by your hatred for homosexuals that you won't even take one second to research the topic you're debating. Marriage IS a fundamental right in the US.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right | American Foundation for Equal Rights

- Fourteen times since 1888, the United States Supreme Court has stated that marriage is a fundamental right of all individuals. In these cases, the Court has reaffirmed that “freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage” is “one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause,” “essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men,” and “sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

Seriously, just stop trying to harass these people. Mind your own business and enjoy YOUR marriage. If gays getting married demeans your marriage, then your marriage has some serious issues.
 
Yeah but Rabid, the problem is WHO defines the rights of the minority?

Some of us think the judiciary has way too much power to interpret the law according to their own political leanings.

My AP Government teacher used to say that the judicial branch of government has the most power of the three in federal government. It also kind of gave itself that power, look up Marbury v. Madison if you want to know more about that.

The major limit on its power though is that it can not just strike down what ever, when ever. Cases have to be submitted about each law, and it can take a LONG time to make it to the Supreme Court.

Honestly anyone who is crying that the will of the people is not being followed clearly does not understand the basics of the U.S Federal Government. The constitutional republic not only exists to make sure the government is of the people, by the people, and for the people, but to ensure that majority vote does not overcome the rights of the minority. This is the way it has been since virtually the beginning, and if you want more verification on this feel free to go read the federalist papers, and many of the other documents from the time of founding.
 
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You seem to be so blinded by your hatred for homosexuals that you won't even take one second to research the topic you're debating. Marriage IS a fundamental right in the US.



Seriously, just stop trying to harass these people. Mind your own business and enjoy YOUR marriage. If gays getting married demeans your marriage, then your marriage has some serious issues.

All right, you decided to make persoanal attacks and make accusations. Now back them up and show me where I said I hate homosexuals. How long are going to need ? Hate is a pretty strong word.

My comments on this thread was that the SCOTUS didn't rule that Prop. 8 was unconstitutional and the court didn't. They said that the case should have never been brought before the SCOTUS and that it was suppose to be the state defending prop. 8 not private individuals.

So now any proposition passed by the voters into law can be challenged by any activist and if the governor or state attorney general sides with the activist they don't have to appear in court to defend the law which they are supposedly required to do. That's what Governor Brown did.

Need to get a Republican elected as Governor of California and then shop for a judge and then challenge all of California's gun laws as being unconstitutional and if the Governor refuses to defend all of California's gun laws in court we win. It's a step back to regaining our personal freedoms.

It works both ways and that's why some were scraching their heads wondering why were they celibrating ?
 
All right, you decided to make persoanal attacks and make accusations. Now back them up and show me where I said I hate homosexuals. How long are going to need ? Hate is a pretty strong word.

My comments on this thread was that the SCOTUS didn't rule that Prop. 8 was unconstitutional and the court didn't. They said that the case should have never been brought before the SCOTUS and that it was suppose to be the state defending prop. 8 not private individuals.

So now any proposition passed by the voters into law can be challenged by any activist and if the governor or state attorney general sides with the activist they don't have to appear in court to defend the law which they are supposedly required to do. That's what Governor Brown did.

Need to get a Republican elected as Governor of California and then shop for a judge and then challenge all of California's gun laws as being unconstitutional and if the Governor refuses to defend all of California's gun laws in court we win. It's a step back to regaining our personal freedoms.

It works both ways and that's why some were scraching their heads wondering why were they celibrating ?

I don't mean to use personal attacks, but I like to call a spade a spade. The only somewhat "logical" reason I've ever been given by anti-SSM supporters is their religion. The bible doesn't say a single ****ing word about petitioning your government to harass sinners. If willing adults want to make a marriage contract with each other, that is simply none of your business. Injecting yourself like that into someone else's personal lives, while it doesn't effect you in any way, shape, or form, can really only come from a place of hate.

Sure, some of the methods in this case might not have been completely kosher, but at the end of the day, they were throwing out something that was unconstitutional and hateful, which is their job.
 
How can a Constitutional right be taken away if it wasn't a right to begin with ?

I keep hearing this, but I'm pretty sure the constitution is silent on who can ride where on a bus, or what drinking fountain one must drink from.

it just says everyone is equal in the eyes of the law.

Prop 8 is so baldly discriminatory I can't believe anybody thought it would stand in the first place.

"Redheads may not play baseball in California."

"Only bald people may wear hats in California."

At the end of the day, the money to support anti-gay marriage legislation comes from religious groups and companies that were enjoying their spousal-benefit-free gay employees.

It seems like its ALWAYS about god or money these days.
 
I believe that by 2050 every Supreme Court judge will be a liberal.

What do you think that will do for the USA?

That would actually be bad, IMO.

Traditionally, all the political involvement by conservative supreme court justices would have been considered utterly inappropriate.
 
You've forgotten that we're also a republic. No amount of majority can vote away the rights of a minority.

Would you be saying the same thing if this were a bill that prevented african americans from voting or having guns? It would be the will of the people, right?

silly rapid tricks are for kids

your looking for honesty, logic and facts where there are none.

how ever you are right, the will of the people in a state vote cant violate the rights of others granted by constitutions.
 
justice, rights, liberties and freedoms win over bigotry and or discrimination


this is called a victory!

Im proud!
 
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