Proof that the border "crisis" is a sham

[VanceMack]

What's embarassing is that you are PISSING YOURSEL IN TERROR of it. It's also pathetic that you have to jump all over the racism thing. Fear of losing a voting majority doesn't necessarily equal racism, but it's still fear, which is what you guys are full of.:roll:

Without dog whistles and fear mongering the GOP woouldn't have a "platform" much less a base. :2rofll:

:lamo

Tell it to Obama...You remember him...right?



Tell it to Schumer.



Nah...you are embarrassing yourself. And you just doubled down.

Sad. ****ing sad.

 

[Ikari]

Because surely, illegal immigrants are responding to the census bureau...

:roll:

Sure. EVERY leftist is for 'border security'...just so long as it doesnt actually do anything to secure the border.

I like how you'll just ignore any data that may be contradictory to your point.

lol

But perhaps if you have actual measurement or data to support your claim. It seems that the latest numbers say about 10 million or so. And obviously what we have been doing is effective as we've seen the number of illegal boarder crossings continue to decline. But don't let reality get in the way of your hysterics. Heaven forbid we actually take a look at the numbers and data and reality before overreacting to trumped up drama.

lol

 

[OscarLevant]

sigh...

You don't think over 300,000 people...and that's just the ones we've caught...isn't a crisis? Three years of that and we have a million. Ten years of that and that means TEN million tried to get in...illegally.

Now...add to that the character of the people who were caught (hardened criminals, some of them) and the fact that some of them were already deported and they are trying to get back in...and the diseases...etc.

Yeah...there is no justification to be satisfied that Trump has managed to catch 300,000 people in one year. We have to do better.

It was much worse in Prior decades and not considered a crisis then why all of a sudden it is now? I tell you why because Trump needs an issue to Gin up votes for his base, that's why and that's all it is

 

[OscarLevant]

I never mentioned the 4000 terrorists thing. Other things can be considered a crisis that doesn't involve terrorists.

As for that other graph, again, "turned away" means that they were caught attempting to enter the US illegally. It still would not reflect how many actually get through undetected.

As for prior Presidents, for decades now our Presidents have not been doing their job in securing our border. The last one that attempted to do so, Reagan, only signed the amnesty agreement on the condition that certain laws were passed to make our border more secure. Since then many have made those laws ineffective. Illegal immigration is a big business and helps many a corporation. That our prior Presidents have not called it a crisis doesn't mean much, if anything, due to that.

The point is that has been much worse in Prior decades and not considered a crisis so why should it be considered a crisis now? I will tell you why, because Trump needs an issue to Gin up his base for votes that's all it is

 

[OscarLevant]

Nope...a wall isnt going to get rid of the 20-30 million illegal immigrants. Thats going to have to be dealt with. But as part of the process...we need to take steps to STOP more from coming in...and you know what? That is just ****ing common sense and something EVERYONE agreed with and voted on until Trump proposed a more efficient wall than what has already been built. As soon as that happened, every mindless bitter angry hate filled leftist **** lost their mind, forgot they have supported building walls and fences for decades including the ones they VOTED FOR and are ALREADY IN EXISTENCE and started shrieking about how walls are evil, and racist. ****ing hypocrites, the lot of them.

The whole point is that it was never considered a crisis when it was much worse in prior decades so why is it now considered a crisis? I will tell you why because Trump needs an issue to Gin up his base, that's all it is

 

[OscarLevant]

I said the popularly accepted figure...and that was given in 2006 and hasnt changed, which is ridiculous and everyone knows it.

As to your second part...we HAVE built walls and barriers. And no one REALLY knows what the wall Trump wants to see built looks like beyond the desire that it be EFFECTIVE. But it is ****ing LAUGHABLE that you and others are FINE with walls and fences...as long as they are ineffective and dont do ****.

The point here isn't the wall the point here is that here is a manufactured crisis which does not exist

 

[Kal'Stang]

The point is that has been much worse in Prior decades and not considered a crisis so why should it be considered a crisis now? I will tell you why, because Trump needs an issue to Gin up his base for votes that's all it is

As I said, just because prior Presidents did not call it a crisis, doesn't mean it wasn't a crisis. Trump isn't as beholden to corporations as past Presidents so has more leeway in what he can call it.

 

[VanceMack]

The point here isn't the wall the point here is that here is a manufactured crisis which does not exist

Bull****. The 'point here' is "how can we try to cover for the fact that Trump is calling for the same thing democrats have called for?" by trying to pretend that illegal immigration isnt a real problem.

 

[OscarLevant]

Bull****. The 'point here' is "how can we try to cover for the fact that Trump is calling for the same thing democrats have called for?" by trying to pretend that illegal immigration isnt a real problem.

Pelosi won't negotiate with a hostage taker. To do so would encourage more hostage-taking, and for the metaphor challenged its Trump holding 800,000 worker's Hostage to get his way.

Trump will have to open the government backup before any negotiations can begin.

When that is accomplished then we'll get back to the point you just raised

Not saying illegal immigration isn't a problem it's always been a problem it's just that it's not a crisis

 

[Acadia]

You're probably going to have to at least get on the order of drunk driving. You think that any of those numbers are going to be zero ever? So what's this emotional appeal here? Certainly we should work on boarder security, and we should be interested in reducing ALL violent crime as well. But this "how many more Americans have to die" nonsense. Over 10K people were killed in 2017 due to drunk driving. Yet booze is still legal here. Why don't we make it illegal! How many more Americans have to die!?

lol

This form of emotional appeal is weak sauce at best.

How is this hard to get? BUT FOR these illegals being here, committing crimes and having dui's, these Americans would be alive today. These tragedies were 100% preventable. Just think if California's police hands weren't tied by the insane policies of Moonbeam. Corproal Singh's murder would never have happened. Why? Because ICE would have deported him. On Christmas day 2018, just hours after he left his wife and 5-month old son to serve his community, the chances of him crossing his killer's path would have been infinitesimal.

 

[Acadia]

The point here isn't the wall the point here is that here is a manufactured crisis which does not exist

We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.

We are a generous and welcoming people, here in the United States, but those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law.

 

[markjs]

Bull****. The 'point here' is "how can we try to cover for the fact that Trump is calling for the same thing democrats have called for?" by trying to pretend that illegal immigration isnt a real problem.

prob·lem
/ˈpräbləm/Submit
noun
1.
a matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome.
"they have financial problems"
synonyms: difficulty, trouble, worry, complication, difficult situation; More
2.
PHYSICS•MATHEMATICS
an inquiry starting from given conditions to investigate or demonstrate a fact, result, or law.

cri·sis
/ˈkrīsis/Submit
noun
a time of intense difficulty, trouble, or danger.
"the current economic crisis"
synonyms: emergency, disaster, catastrophe, calamity; More
a time when a difficult or important decision must be made.
"a crisis point of history"
synonyms: critical point, turning point, crossroads, watershed, head, moment of truth, zero hour, point of no return, Rubicon, doomsday; More
the turning point of a disease when an important change takes place, indicating either recovery or death.

Do you see the difference? Oh wait, you're a Trump fan aren't you? OF COURSE you don't! Silly me!:lamo

 

[trixare4kids]

That's border apprehensions. How many do not get apprehended? The government bases how many illegals enter the US illegally by the apprehension rate. Figuring that at least the same amount or twice that amount goes through undetected. So, just by your graph alone that is at least 310,531 people entering the US yearly along our borders without going through proper channels and not being apprehended. That is NOT a small amount of people. And it is a drain on resources that we shouldn't have to deal with. Mind you that graph doesn't even represent those that came here legally but have over stayed their visa's.

Is it a crisis? :shrug: I guess that just depends on your political ideology when it comes to border security and illegals. So frankly, you haven't provided any "proof" to back up your belief as you must first define what is to be considered a "crisis" in regards to this subject and get everyone to agree with that definition. And then you have to prove that your definition matches that of the graph and reality.

The majority apprehended by border patrol have prior criminals convictions so in this respect the type of illegal immigrant is a crisis and should be a concern to all.
Most immigrants arrested by ICE have prior criminal convictions, a big change from 2009

Immigrants with past criminal convictions accounted for 74% of all arrests made by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents in fiscal 2017, according to data from the agency. The remainder were classified as “non-criminal” arrestees, including 16% with pending criminal charges and 11% with no known criminal convictions or charges.

 

[Ikari]

How is this hard to get? BUT FOR these illegals being here, committing crimes and having dui's, these Americans would be alive today. These tragedies were 100% preventable. Just think if California's police hands weren't tied by the insane policies of Moonbeam. Corproal Singh's murder would never have happened. Why? Because ICE would have deported him. On Christmas day 2018, just hours after he left his wife and 5-month old son to serve his community, the chances of him crossing his killer's path would have been infinitesimal.

Illegals are not the only one's committing these crimes. You think that 10K deaths are on the shoulders of illegals? You think a wall is going to prevent people from coming to this country illegally and committing crimes? How is this hard to get?

 

[Acadia]

Illegals are not the only one's committing these crimes. You think that 10K deaths are on the shoulders of illegals? You think a wall is going to prevent people from coming to this country illegally and committing crimes? How is this hard to get?

Straw man'ing won't negate the fact that crimes committed by illegals are 100% preventable. You know you've lost the argument when you have to resort to putting words in your opponent's mouth.
What's the life of an American worth to you? For me, it's well worth 5 Billion. Well worth it. If it goes to reducing illegal immigration, which every single wall we've put up along our southern border has, I'm happy to pay.

 

[trixare4kids]

Illegals are not the only one's committing these crimes. You think that 10K deaths are on the shoulders of illegals? You think a wall is going to prevent people from coming to this country illegally and committing crimes? How is this hard to get?

Red herring.
The topic is illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit.

And yes, there's plenty of proof that border barriers work and will keep illegals from committing crimes like Acadia mentioned.
Israel?

 

[Ikari]

Straw man'ing won't negate the fact that crimes committed by illegals are 100% preventable. You know you've lost the argument when you have to resort to putting words in your opponent's mouth.
What's the life of an American worth to you? For me, it's well worth 5 Billion. Well worth it. If it goes to reducing illegal immigration, which every single wall we've put up along our southern border has, I'm happy to pay.

Aren't most crimes 100% preventable?

You're just using appeal to emotion. There's some amount of crime that is committed by illegal aliens, but it doesn't rise to the level of crime committed by people here by birth or legally. What's an American life worth to you? Prohibition? Happy to pay that? The wall isn't noted to eliminate illegal crossings, nor do we know if it will significantly decrease the number of illegal crossings that we have now, which have already been decreasing due to our efforts at securing the boarder. You've lost the argument when you're reduced the inane appeals to emotion.

 

[markjs]

Red herring.
The topic is illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit.

And yes, there's plenty of proof that border barriers work and will keep illegals from committing crimes like Acadia mentioned.
Israel?

That's an apples to lamb chops comparison and you know it, a complete false equivlency fail!:2rofll:

 

[markjs]

Aren't most crimes 100% preventable?

You're just using appeal to emotion. There's some amount of crime that is committed by illegal aliens, but it doesn't rise to the level of crime committed by people here by birth or legally. What's an American life worth to you? Prohibition? Happy to pay that? The wall isn't noted to eliminate illegal crossings, nor do we know if it will significantly decrease the number of illegal crossings that we have now, which have already been decreasing due to our efforts at securing the boarder. You've lost the argument when you're reduced the inane appeals to emotion.

That's why his base is unshakeable. It never was about facts or policy, it's all weak minded people needing an authoritarian "daddy" autocrat, to stoke the fears, and to soothe their butthurt, about 8 years of Obama. That's why they ignore that even on "promises kept" it's all flim flam and window dressing. He makes them FEEL good. Problem is, this kind of insanity isn't going away, likely till many of them literally die off.:rll:

 

[Nickyjo]

310,531 in 2017 and that's the lowest since 2000 (thanks President Trump).

It hasn't fallen enough.

Who can argue with Mycroft’s logical interpretation of the chart? It clearly shows that after he came to office in 2006, there was an immediate decline in apprehensions at the border, continuing in the years thereafter.

 

[OscarLevant]

We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.

We are a generous and welcoming people, here in the United States, but those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law.

Illegal Immigration is way way way down over past decades. Crime cannot be eliminated absolutely we can only put a dent in it. The same is true of illegal immigration. America has put a huge dent in it there is no crisis. The shutdown is unwarranted and a complete waste of time and taxpayer resources,

 

[Mycroft]

It was much worse in Prior decades and not considered a crisis then why all of a sudden it is now? I tell you why because Trump needs an issue to Gin up votes for his base, that's why and that's all it is

Illegal immigration SHOULD have been considered a crisis decades ago.

 

[Mycroft]

Who can argue with Mycroft’s logical interpretation of the chart? It clearly shows that after he came to office in 2006, there was an immediate decline in apprehensions at the border, continuing in the years thereafter.

???

After who came in office in 2006?

 

[Nickyjo]

???

After who came in office in 2006?

Sorry, my joke fell flat, should have specified Trump. My point was that illegal immigration from Mexico declined long before Trump came into office, presumably due to Mexico’s improving economy, which had more people moving south than north some recent years. Trump brilliantly and cynically used a non-issue flavored with race and fear to boost himself politically. Not much different than his scary rhetoric about crime when it has been mostly declining in recent years. Right out of the 1930s fascist playbook.

 

[jnug]

Red herring.
The topic is illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit.

And yes, there's plenty of proof that border barriers work and will keep illegals from committing crimes like Acadia mentioned.
Israel?

Israel's border guards have authority to use lethal force. Is that what we want on the border? Maybe it is what you want. Its not what I want.

As for keeping illegals from committing crimes....how is the border barrier supposed to do that? Will the slats dislodge and fire off like a missile and target said illegal as he or she is committing a crime?