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You fail right out of the gate Turtle. The Founders DID NOT believe in natural rights as their statement about them in the Declaration was a blatant lie which leaves no doubt that it was merely a high fallutin pompous pontification made for the benefit of the gullible and naive who swallow such nonsense.
Lets apply your own logic to this and see how it works for you: nobody can believe in natural rights and the equality of all people with rights given by their Creator when they themselves enslave their fellow man and deny them all the so called rights that they claim they believe in.
It is worse than a pedophile buggering a child while making statements against child abuse at the very moment of their disgusting activities. Slavery is far more encompassing and last a hell of a lot longer.
The Declaration of Independence:
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --
.
please provide proof......of the bold part of your statement
I just did in the very post you reproduced. :doh:roll::shock:
Thank you EB for providing the very proof that the Founders did not believe the nonsense they spewed about the equality of all men and natural rights coming from their Creator.
Still cannot answer the question I see EB.
You fail right out of the gate Turtle. The Founders DID NOT believe in natural rights as their statement about them in the Declaration was a blatant lie which leaves no doubt that it was merely a high fallutin pompous pontification made for the benefit of the gullible and naive who swallow such nonsense.
Lets apply your own logic to this and see how it works for you: nobody can believe in natural rights and the equality of all people with rights given by their Creator when they themselves enslave their fellow man and deny them all the so called rights that they claim they believe in.
It is worse than a pedophile buggering a child while making statements against child abuse at the very moment of their disgusting activities. Slavery is far more encompassing and last a hell of a lot longer.
no proof, just the standard haymarket escape statement
simple questionThomas Jefferson was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
George Washington was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Patrick Henry was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
James Madison was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You need more proof? I have it.
Proof of what one is asserting. If I told you Obama declared he was a hindu you would be correct to ask me for proof of this assertion.Define proof. Proof in mathmatics maybe, but the rest is a matter of quality. I am really not sure there is any proof we all exist.
simple question
did TJ intend to deny himself and those just like him the rights he claimed were important?
[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=double+secret+probation&FORM=VIRE10#view=detail&mid=13AA84508C3D6A4FD0A813AA84508C3D6A4FD0A8[/video]Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
George Washington was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Patrick Henry was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
James Madison was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You need more proof? I have it.
Deny himself!?!?!?!?!?! I have no idea what that means. Do you?
you have been placed on..." double secret probation"
Deny himself!?!?!?!?!?! I have no idea what that means. Do you?
oh come on
do you claim Tom Jefferson intended to DENY people like him the rights you claim they didn't believe in
that is what you are claiming
you argue that since he and the other founders did not include blacks in coverage of these rights, these founders actually did not believe in such rights for ANYONE
isn't that your "no true scotsman" fallacy you constantly recite?
just because the founders did not think blacks were entitled to natural rights DOES NOT PROVE that the founders did not want these rights for themselves
its as stupid as saying that the founders did not intend that the founders and other white men to really have an ability to vote since slaves couldn't vote
WOW!!!!!! So in your world, a slaver who owns other human beings, rapes other human beings, uses them for breeding other human beings to be held in a condition of slavery, punishes and even kills those other human beings but who professes belief in rights for himself is some sort of noble creature who believes in rights and the Equality of All Men and their rights as the statement says.
That is one of the most blatantly absurd and outright ridiculous things I have ever heard anyone ever assert in ant forum or in any publication or on any broadcast ever in my 65 years on the planet.
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL... not just white men.... not just white men of property .... not just slave owners. ALL MEN.
Ad those same ALL MEN are given rights by their Creator and among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Jefferson did not believe that lie the moment he put parchment to paper and neither did the other slave owners who were our sainted Founders.
The real mystery is why some people still swallow it today.
that evades my question
try again
do you claim Tom Jefferson intended to DENY people like him the rights you claim they didn't believe in
that is what you are claiming
You really do not know what the word EVASION means do you Turtle. If I dealt with your absurd contention any more directly it would make Hiroshima look like a marshmallow roast by comparison.
more evasion
yes or no-did the founders want to limit the rights they wanted to be able to exercise?
that is the issue-not all this diversionary nonsense
Its all there for you in 243. And its beyond direct.
Here it is again for you
Jefferson set the bar at ALL MEN... not just the very limited audience you want to pretend he did in saying people like himself. Jefferson failed his own standard and violated his own declared universe of ALL MEN.
He further said that ALL MEN had those rights. ALL MEN. The word ALL being EVERYONE - even including those darkies picking their cotton singing those pleasant spirituals in such bucolic contentment.
So what Jefferson intended for himself or his fellow white men of property is totally, completely and utterly IRRELEVANT and to even assert such a thing is totally and patently absurd.
So that is NOT what I am claiming. What I am claiming is that Jefferson made a statement and other Founders signed it and they did not believe in it and their own actions prove it.
Got that now Turtle?
Its all there for you in 243. And its beyond direct.
Here it is again for you
Jefferson set the bar at ALL MEN... not just the very limited audience you want to pretend he did in saying people like himself. Jefferson failed his own standard and violated his own declared universe of ALL MEN.
He further said that ALL MEN had those rights. ALL MEN. The word ALL being EVERYONE - even including those darkies picking their cotton singing those pleasant spirituals in such bucolic contentment.
So what Jefferson intended for himself or his fellow white men of property is totally, completely and utterly IRRELEVANT and to even assert such a thing is totally and patently absurd.
So that is NOT what I am claiming. What I am claiming is that Jefferson made a statement and other Founders signed it and they did not believe in it and their own actions prove it.
Got that now Turtle?
what I get is you are diverting again and not answering a simple question because it destroys this silly argument that is a specious attempt to try to pretend that the 2A didn't guarantee what we all know it did
slaves were not considered men back then. sad but true
the FOUNDERS CERTAINLY BELIEVED they were the MEN who were entitled to exercise natural rights
In his initial draft of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson condemned the injustice of the slave trade and, by implication, slavery, but he also blamed the presence of enslaved Africans in North America on avaricious British colonial policies. Jefferson thus acknowledged that slavery violated the natural rights of the enslaved, while at the same time he absolved Americans of any responsibility for owning slaves themselves.
Jefferson said ALL MEN. Are are you telling me that Jefferson believed people from Africa and their children to be animals?
And I do not think you find such a claim SAD at all since you made it up.
that is a blatant falsehood as they clearly said ALL MEN.
YOu are really reaching on this one. And you have no leg to stand on since the statement in the Declaration is crystal clear.
Read this
The Founding Fathers and Slavery (Founding Fathers) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
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