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Progressives: ITS TOO HARD TO ACHIEVE SECULARISM IN THE MIDDLE EAST

Gamago25

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"""GarzaUK wrote: Do you know how hard it is for an Islamic nation to have a secular government?""""


So lets just give up.

How Progressive......


Im glad Ghandi and MLK didnt think human rights was too hard to be achieved, when protesting in the face of brutal and murderous authorities.

They dont make "progressives" like they used to

They'd rather be human shields defending a theocratic or dictatorial regime, than protest for human rights in those countries.

/boggle
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Gandhi (note the the location of the H) and MLK would never have approved of our current war.

They didn't really approve of any war.
 

Gamago25

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Ghandi and MLK would never approve of Liberals standing by letting people be oppressed/murdered/raped/beheaded under Theocratic rule while enjoying thier own freedoms from the safety of thier own state.


Ghandi and MLK werent afraid to stand up to tyranny, why are liberals today afraid to do so?


You should be ashamed for advocating doing nothing. Cant even organize a protest in those countries cause your SCARED.

Fear didnt stop Ghandi and MLK. It empowered them.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Gandhi or MLK would not have said, "Get the gun, wes got peoples free to liberate."

Do not presume to lecture me about indifference. You do not know me.

You speak to me as if I control all the liberals in the world and can at the snap of my fingers get a big rally to go overthrow the Iyatollah (sp?).

Ever heard of the genocide in Darfur? Rwanda? Where were you then? Where are you now? In the Sudan there's been a genocide going on since the late '80s. When will start a thread about that?
 

Gamago25

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And yet Ghandi and MLK stood up to overwhelming odds and prevailed.

Who are you to think so small and that you cannot do this?

oh another libby that just shakes thier hands and gives up, and then just blames the US.

Typical.


Liberals today lack the spine and moral caliber of Ghandi and MLK when it comes to Human Rights for everyone in the world.
 

Gamago25

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Liberals would rather be a human shield defending an oppresive regime that abuses human rights, than to actually do what Ghandi and MLK did.

And that was to stand up to those who abuse Human Rights and Freedom of Expression.

You should be ashamed.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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You know what dude, you really don't know me. You say I've done nothing. What have you done?

You also don't know how to spell Gandhi. It's in my fricking name no less.

And what's with this "libby" crap too? Do you hear me calling you a conservy? No. I'm 17, and I'm above generalizations and name calling. Go figure.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Gamago25 said:
Liberals would rather be a human shield defending an oppresive regime that abuses human rights, than to actually do what Ghandi and MLK did.


You should be ashamed.
When did I say that? When did I say, "I would give my life to save my beloved Saddam."

I should be ashamed... YOU DON'T KNOW ME.
 

Gamago25

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The fact your 17 is a good reason why your so idealistic and naive.

You want to make this world a better place without helping the US, without going to war?

Helping peaceful democratic movements in Iran is a start.

But its beneath you right?

Try something Pro-active instead of trying to hold others back.

I've already helped in many ways. This is just a taste.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Beneath me?

Holding others back?

You're profile says you're 35. How in all of your years of wisdom and experience can you still be making generalizations about the otherside of the political spectrum and pulling words out of my mouth.

You want to see a peaceful democratic change in Iran. Hell yeah dude. I'm there. You want to talk about how to get that ball rolling let's do it, but if you want to make some more generalizations about my character or lack thereof, here is my response.

:moon:

That's right. The ass is red with anger!
 

GarzaUK

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Beneath me?

Holding others back?

You're profile says you're 35. How in all of your years of wisdom and experience can you still be making generalizations about the otherside of the political spectrum and pulling words out of my mouth.

You want to see a peaceful democratic change in Iran. Hell yeah dude. I'm there. You want to talk about how to get that ball rolling let's do it, but if you want to make some more generalizations about my character or lack thereof, here is my response.

:moon:

That's right. The ass is red with anger!
lol Gandhi lol, I wouldn't even lower myself Gandhi to his level. Like a broken record. Idealists strive to make the world better, we would be lost without them.

Oh apprantly I want a non-secular Islamic Republic of Britain Gandhi.
 

Arch Enemy

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Dude no need for this topic.

Grow up and don't get all bonkers when some one says something you don't like.

George Washington was the only Good President.
 

ludahai

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Gandhi>Bush said:
You know what dude, you really don't know me. You say I've done nothing. What have you done?

You also don't know how to spell Gandhi. It's in my fricking name no less.

And what's with this "libby" crap too? Do you hear me calling you a conservy? No. I'm 17, and I'm above generalizations and name calling. Go figure.
G>B have had our disagreements, but I wouldn't classify him as a knee-jerk liberal. Liberal yes, but one with whom one can have a reasoned discussion even if you still disagree after the conversation. I think this rant against him is undeserved.
 

Gamago25

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Im coming in with both barrels blazing because to me the "War on Terror" is simple.


Secularism in, Theocracy out.


Religous freedom in, Religous oppression Out.


Anyone got a probem, see my M4A1.

That is all.


:mrgreen:
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Is it absolutely neccessary to use your M4A1 to solve such a thing? It's an noble concept, but I don't think that it will produce the end you desire.

An M4A1, in my eyes, is incapable of solving terrorism.
 

Gamago25

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Gandhi>Bush said:
An M4A1, in my eyes, is incapable of solving terrorism.


Not for me, a dead terrorist is a dead terrorist, anyone that wishes to join thier cause we can kill too, we have enough bullets.


In the real world Might Makes Right (whether or not its morally right or wrong, the stronger power dictates to the weaker - its just a fact of life).

And the US will insure that it's might is used to spread secularism, democracy, and religious freedoms throughout the Middle East.

Try reading Machiavelli's "The Prince" before you get out into the business world and get pwned.

:mrgreen:
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Your going to kill hatred... by shooting it... That sounds utterly retarded when I say that out loud, but sadly I know that you are not alone in your thinking. Fighting fire with fire is not going to end terrorism. It might end in the world, which I guess would certainly end terrorism, but I doubt that's what you're going for.
 

Arch Enemy

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Do you honestly know how many "dead terrorists" it will take for all terrorism to stop? An infinite amount.
 

vandree

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Gamago25 said:
Im coming in with both barrels blazing because to me the "War on Terror" is simple.


Secularism in, Theocracy out.


Religous freedom in, Religous oppression Out.


Anyone got a probem, see my M4A1.

That is all.


:mrgreen:

Looks like I need to see your M4A1, because I don't believe that terrorism has anything to do with religion.

There is only one simple conclusion to draw from the war on terrorism and that's that we will never win. War and violence are only a temporary solution (if any at all). What we need to do is address the issues, the ciircumstances that lead to terrorism and take it from there.
 

akyron

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Arch Enemy said:
Do you honestly know how many "dead terrorists" it will take for all terrorism to stop? An infinite amount.

1.2 billion
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vandree said:
Looks like I need to see your M4A1, because I don't believe that terrorism has anything to do with religion.

There is only one simple conclusion to draw from the war on terrorism and that's that we will never win. War and violence are only a temporary solution (if any at all). What we need to do is address the issues, the ciircumstances that lead to terrorism and take it from there.
I agree completely. Well said.

:applaud

And if Akyron's number is correct, I have an issue with using war and violence to kill over a sixth of the population of the world.
 

ShamMol

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Think about that number...please, you think that is real? He was being sarcastic or idiotic...I hope sarcastic. Terrorism is extremism and 1/6 of the world is not on that extreme edge.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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I'm pretty postitive he was joking. I think 1.2 billion is the population of muslims. I haven't seen in any such bigotry in other posts from him, I'm actually damned positive he was joking.
 

vandree

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And the US will insure that it's might is used to spread secularism, democracy, and religious freedoms throughout the Middle East.

Apparently the opposite is taking place:


Amnesty International: Human Rights Worldwide in Retreat
By Tom Rivers
London
25 May 2005


The London-based human-rights organization, Amnesty International, says respect for human rights across the world is on the slide, and the group says U.S. policy has a lot to do with that. The 308-page annual report highlights the state of human rights in nearly 150 countries.

Last year was not a good one as far as human rights goes. That is the conclusion of Amnesty International. Based on detailed information from 145 countries, the organization says governments are betraying their promise of a world order based on human rights.

Amnesty's Secretary General Irene Khan delivered her gloomy assessment.

"In 2004, far from any sign of principled leadership, what we saw was actually a new and dangerous agenda in the making," he said. "Rewriting the rules of human rights, discrediting institutions of international cooperation and usurping the language of justice and freedom to promote policies that create fear and insecurity."

Ms. Khan singled out Sudan, Zimbabwe, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nepal, Uzbekistan, and Haiti as among the worst human-rights offenders.

Amnesty International says the United States, by its actions, is sending out a permissive signal to abusive governments and that is leading to more torture worldwide.

Ms. Khan says the United States must end, what she calls, its practice of indefinite detention, which she says is in breach of international law.

"Amnesty International is calling on the U.S. administration to close Guantanamo and disclose the rest," she said. "Either release the prisoners or charge and prosecute them with due process. By peddling the politics of fear and division, this new agenda has also encouraged intolerance, racism and xenophobia."

Amnesty International has been refused access to the prison camp. The Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross is the only independent group to have access to the Guantanamo detainees.

Amnesty's Khan says the United States sets the human rights standard worldwide and is the most important role model for other nations.

"The U.S., as the unrivaled political, military and economic super-power, sets the tone of government behavior worldwide," said Ms. Khan. "By thumbing its nose at the rule of law and human rights, what message does the U.S. send to repressive regimes who have little regard for international law anyway?"

Ms. Khan says several governments have openly defied human rights and international humanitarian law in the name of national security and "counter-terrorism."

Amnesty also criticizes the United Nations as being unable and unwilling to hold its member states to account. The report says the U.N. Commission on Human Rights has become a forum for horse-trading on human rights.

Among the few positive trends the group noted in 2004, were U.S. and British legal decisions curbing some anti-terror measures and what Amnesty calls a rise in human-rights activism.

The U.S. government has not responded to the Amnesty report, but a military spokesman says the United States continues to be a leader in human rights, treating detainees humanely and investigating all claims of abuse.


http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-05-25-voa48.cfm
 

akyron

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'm pretty postitive he was joking. I think 1.2 billion is the population of muslims. I haven't seen in any such bigotry in other posts from him, I'm actually damned positive he was joking.
I was being sarcastic more than joking but some of both is appropriate from my thoughts at the time.

1.2 billion is the current population of Muslims in the world not terrorists. The number of terrorists is many many times smaller but the enemy really is not really people anyway.
It is the divisive nature of religions in general. Belong to my cult or die. Oh hes not a Christian hes going to hell. Oh hes not a Muslim charge him the Islamic tax or cut his head off. Blah blah blah.

How do you fight blind faith? Some faiths are more tolerant that others but they all have an inherent sense of division that just won't go away.

The answer: A Global Religion or outlaw religion completely.

The other option is to get along and that has never worked in 10 thousand years.

I just realized something. The middle east has been a site of conflict for 1/3 of the time man has been on earth (according to evolutionists).

They get the award for longest sustained conflicts as far as I can tell.
Can anyone find somewhere on earth that is fighting longer?
 
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