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Progressive does not mean ultra-socialist or super-liberal

Rainman05

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Hello people.

So I'm not political analyst or anything but really, stop using the term 'progressive' as a substitute for the term liberal or socialist.

Progressive is not about being FOR higher minimum wage
Progressive is not about having state quotas in schools or jobs or anything. If you support affirmative action, you're not a progressive. You're using this term wrong.
Progressive is not about egalitarianism at the point that it is choking every single diferentiation that makes each individual unique.
Progressive is not about big spending on big govt programs like healthcare and pensions.
Progressive is not what most people who call themselves progressives is about.

I understand that the term PROGRESSIVE is a really positive one. Who wants to be a regressive? Nobody. Nobody would go and call himself: hello, I'm a regressive. So the fact that the extreme left took this word and made it it's own is a really disgusting affair. time to take the word away from them and make it what it really is supposed to mean.

This is what a progressive SHOULD look like:
-If you are anti-partisanship and think that de-facto allegiance to a party is bad, then you are a progressive
-If you think that it's a good idea to have tehnocrats in government instead of people who earned political favors from those in power, you are a progressive
-If you think that instead of throwing money at a problem we should put brainpower to solving it first, you are a progressive.
-If you think that equality should only be in face of the law, and not force everyone to obey the same set of rules that YOU are comfortable with, then you truly are a progressive
-If you deny the hippy agenda that everyone is THE SAME and understand that the dumbest kind of diversity is racial/sexuality diversity.... and that the real kind of diversity is in thoughts, education, background ,experience basically what makes you an unique human being, then you truly are a progressive
-If you support secularism and don't want to live under a theocracy, but still understand and support the right of religious institutions to exist, then you are a progressive.
-If you think that education should be a process by which individuals discover themselves and it should be tailored to suit the needs of the people receiving that eduaction, and not to fulfill a bureaucratic checklist, then you are a progressive.
-If you think a job/award/position should go to the best qualified individual instead of having the primary target to accomplish a certain quota by race/gender, then you are a progressive
-If you think that supporting scientific advancement and a cultural environment that promotes the real kind of exceptionalism is a good thing, then you are a progressive
-If you do not try and shut up unpopular opinions and support their right and defend them for saying those things, you are a progressive.


So my dear friends, this what a real progressive should be. And because the people who are exactly the opposite of this have hijacked this term and are using it as cheap PR propaganda to make themselves look good is disgusting and needs to be stopped.

1aquote-chris-hedges.jpg
 

ttwtt78640

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Neomalthusian

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I guess according to this I am a progressive libertarian.

Where does your definition of "progressive" fit on this spectrum?

political_spectrum_left_right_wing.gif
 

Rainman05

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Progressive (politically) means basically nothing without context. It varies greatly based on country and the specific time in history.



Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Definition of a Progressive: Are You a Progressive?

I'm talking about an international trend that should exist in todays' world. Regardless of what prior meanings or what the current dominant trend is.

Conservative used to mean something different 50 years ago in the USA. It still is something different in the USA than it is in Europe. Libertarian means something different in the USA than it does in Europe, so does liberal and socialist and anything politically speaking.

So yeah.
 

sawdust

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I don't use the word progressive unless something is progressive, which liberals are not.
 

Velvet Elvis

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There are some people who don't like to be called "liberals," because liberals don't solve problems...they cause them. So...it's just easier to say "progressive," because that doesn't sound so offensive.


...unless you're "progressing" off the edge of a fiscal cliff, that is.
 

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Hello people.

So I'm not political analyst or anything but really, stop using the term 'progressive' as a substitute for the term liberal or socialist.

Progressive is not about being FOR higher minimum wage
Progressive is not about having state quotas in schools or jobs or anything. If you support affirmative action, you're not a progressive. You're using this term wrong.
Progressive is not about egalitarianism at the point that it is choking every single diferentiation that makes each individual unique.
Progressive is not about big spending on big govt programs like healthcare and pensions.
Progressive is not what most people who call themselves progressives is about.

I understand that the term PROGRESSIVE is a really positive one. Who wants to be a regressive? Nobody. Nobody would go and call himself: hello, I'm a regressive. So the fact that the extreme left took this word and made it it's own is a really disgusting affair. time to take the word away from them and make it what it really is supposed to mean.

This is what a progressive SHOULD look like:
-If you are anti-partisanship and think that de-facto allegiance to a party is bad, then you are a progressive
-If you think that it's a good idea to have tehnocrats in government instead of people who earned political favors from those in power, you are a progressive
-If you think that instead of throwing money at a problem we should put brainpower to solving it first, you are a progressive.
-If you think that equality should only be in face of the law, and not force everyone to obey the same set of rules that YOU are comfortable with, then you truly are a progressive
-If you deny the hippy agenda that everyone is THE SAME and understand that the dumbest kind of diversity is racial/sexuality diversity.... and that the real kind of diversity is in thoughts, education, background ,experience basically what makes you an unique human being, then you truly are a progressive
-If you support secularism and don't want to live under a theocracy, but still understand and support the right of religious institutions to exist, then you are a progressive.
-If you think that education should be a process by which individuals discover themselves and it should be tailored to suit the needs of the people receiving that eduaction, and not to fulfill a bureaucratic checklist, then you are a progressive.
-If you think a job/award/position should go to the best qualified individual instead of having the primary target to accomplish a certain quota by race/gender, then you are a progressive
-If you think that supporting scientific advancement and a cultural environment that promotes the real kind of exceptionalism is a good thing, then you are a progressive
-If you do not try and shut up unpopular opinions and support their right and defend them for saying those things, you are a progressive.


So my dear friends, this what a real progressive should be. And because the people who are exactly the opposite of this have hijacked this term and are using it as cheap PR propaganda to make themselves look good is disgusting and needs to be stopped.

1aquote-chris-hedges.jpg

Perhaps you should send that to your fellow progressives, because what I've seen on this board, there ain't a cup of spit worth of difference between those claiming to be Liberal, Progressive or Socialist. Might also want to go review some of your own posts and see if they match your definitions.
 

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Progressive (politically) means basically nothing without context. It varies greatly based on country and the specific time in history.



Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Definition of a Progressive: Are You a Progressive?


excellent point-right now the American left is mainly a statist parasitic reactionary movement demanding more government, more taxes and more class warfare. True progressives now are trying to shrink government and empower people
 

radcen

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People who self-identify as "progressive" usually are super-liberal. They take pride in it. There is also the unspoken inference that people not as "progressive" as them are indeed regressive.

The term has been hi-jacked, just as politically conservative is not the same the traditional definition of conservative.
 

Real Korimyr #9

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I consider myself a Progressive. I wish I could use the term without being associated with cultural Marxism.
 

Respecthelect

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Liberal used to describe one who wanted more individual freedoms (liber-ty - liber-al, get it?). The term liberal was therefore a desirable and positive term. Liberals absconded the name, just as they've recently glommed onto "progressive." Like everything they touch, the term "progressive" will soon be a vile descriptor due to the result of their influence. Liberals will complain about being described as progressives, once they destroy the Q-value (marketing value) of the name. Much like Detroit's economy, then you can have it back.
 

Linc

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I notice all the libertarian-rights running from the Rethuglian brand. Same with conservatives. They should take a page out of the greatest republican Presidents, progress----ives Lincoln, Roosevelt and Eisenhower.
 

APACHERAT

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>" The self-described “progressive” Ken Brociner wrote in the March 2, 2008 edition of In These Times:

“The term 'progressive' has evolved a great deal over the past 35 years. By the ’70s, many ’60s veterans had concluded that working 'within the system' had become a viable option. As a result, many leftists stopped using rhetoric and slogans that had marginalized them from the political mainstream. Labels like 'radical', 'leftist', and 'revolutionary' sounded stale and gratuitously provocative. And so, gradually, activists began to use the much less threatening 'progressive.' Today, 'progressive' is the term of choice for practically everyone who has a politics that used to be called 'radical.'”

Modern progressives, like their ideological forebears, firmly believe that they are intellectually and morally superior to the population of Americans at large, and that they should thus be permitted to institute the political and social policies which they deem beneficial to society -- even if those policies are inconsistent with the principles outlined in the U.S. Constitution. "<

Progressivism's Continuing Influence - Discover the Networks
 

Hard Truth

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Hello people.

So I'm not political analyst or anything but really, stop using the term 'progressive' as a substitute for the term liberal or socialist.

Progressive is not about being FOR higher minimum wage
Progressive is not about having state quotas in schools or jobs or anything. If you support affirmative action, you're not a progressive. You're using this term wrong.
Progressive is not about egalitarianism at the point that it is choking every single diferentiation that makes each individual unique.
Progressive is not about big spending on big govt programs like healthcare and pensions.
Progressive is not what most people who call themselves progressives is about......

The positions you listed are secular, technocratic, racist, and small government conservative, which is arguably consistent with the views of earlier "Progressives" such as Woodow Wilson and Margaret Sanger, but not the people labeled as Progressive today, who are esentially the same as Liberals. You are closest to a Libertarian. Today's Progressives want to use government to make things better.
 

Hard Truth

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I guess according to this I am a progressive libertarian.

Where does your definition of "progressive" fit on this spectrum?

political_spectrum_left_right_wing.gif

That graphic is a wrong, Fascism is right wing.

A two dimensional chart is always inaccurate, you need at least three.



"If we recognise that this [the left to right spectrum] is essentially an economic line it's fine, as far as it goes. We can show, for example, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot, with their commitment to a totally controlled economy, on the hard left. Socialists like Mahatma Gandhi and Robert Mugabe would occupy a less extreme leftist position. Margaret Thatcher would be well over to the right, but further right still would be someone like that ultimate free marketeer, General Pinochet.

That deals with economics, but the social dimension is also important in politics. That's the one that the mere left-right scale doesn't adequately address. So we've added one, ranging in positions from extreme authoritarian to extreme libertarian.

Both an economic dimension and a social dimension are important factors for a proper political analysis. By adding the social dimension you can show that Stalin was an authoritarian leftist (ie the state is more important than the individual) and that Gandhi, believing in the supreme value of each individual, is a liberal leftist. While the former involves state-imposed arbitrary collectivism in the extreme top left, on the extreme bottom left is voluntary collectivism at regional level, with no state involved. Hundreds of such anarchist communities exisited in Spain during the civil war period

You can also put Pinochet, who was prepared to sanction mass killing for the sake of the free market, on the far right as well as in a hardcore authoritarian position. On the non-socialist side you can distinguish someone like Milton Friedman, who is anti-state for fiscal rather than social reasons, from Hitler, who wanted to make the state stronger, even if he wiped out half of humanity in the process.

The chart also makes clear that, despite popular perceptions, the opposite of fascism is not communism but anarchism (ie liberal socialism), and that the opposite of communism ( i.e. an entirely state-planned economy) is neo-liberalism (i.e. extreme deregulated economy)
http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
 

APACHERAT

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The positions you listed are secular, technocratic, racist, and small government conservative, which is arguably consistent with the views of earlier "Progressives" such as Woodow Wilson and Margaret Sanger, but not the people labeled as Progressive today, who are essentially the same as Liberals. You are closest to a Libertarian. Today's Progressives want to use government to make things better.

Todays progressives are something else hiding behind the progressive label. Most are Marxist. socialist,splinter groups of Communist Party USA, Workers World Party, red diaper babies, former members of the SDS and Weather Underground, basically the "New Left" who came to the conclusion they couldn't bring change or overthrow the U.S. government with revolution and violence on the streets.

While some drifted off to indoctrinate young Americans first in our universities and colleges and eventually in our K-12 schools, others came under the Democrat tent and would continue their radical leftist agenda by running for public office and putting a "D" behind their name and hide behind either the liberal or progressive label. For over seventy years communist and socialist tried to run for political office under their true labels but they just didn't get the votes.

What happened to the Truman, JFK and LBJ liberals of the 1960's ? Many fled the Democrat Party when these radical leftist came under the Democrat tent and came under the GOP tent. The left called them neoconservatives aka neo-cons.

There are a few conservatives and even libertarians who wish that the neoconservatives would go back under the Democrat tent and reclaim their liberal label that rightfully belong to them.

Should be noted that during the "American Progressive Era" progressives were found in both the Democrat and Republican party.
 

Mycroft

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Y'all can blame the liberals...and Rush Limbaugh a little...for making progressive a dirty word.
 

ReformCollege

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Hello people.

So I'm not political analyst or anything but really, stop using the term 'progressive' as a substitute for the term liberal or socialist.

Progressive is not about being FOR higher minimum wage
Progressive is not about having state quotas in schools or jobs or anything. If you support affirmative action, you're not a progressive. You're using this term wrong.
Progressive is not about egalitarianism at the point that it is choking every single diferentiation that makes each individual unique.
Progressive is not about big spending on big govt programs like healthcare and pensions.
Progressive is not what most people who call themselves progressives is about.

I understand that the term PROGRESSIVE is a really positive one. Who wants to be a regressive? Nobody. Nobody would go and call himself: hello, I'm a regressive. So the fact that the extreme left took this word and made it it's own is a really disgusting affair. time to take the word away from them and make it what it really is supposed to mean.

This is what a progressive SHOULD look like:
-If you are anti-partisanship and think that de-facto allegiance to a party is bad, then you are a progressive
-If you think that it's a good idea to have tehnocrats in government instead of people who earned political favors from those in power, you are a progressive
-If you think that instead of throwing money at a problem we should put brainpower to solving it first, you are a progressive.
-If you think that equality should only be in face of the law, and not force everyone to obey the same set of rules that YOU are comfortable with, then you truly are a progressive
-If you deny the hippy agenda that everyone is THE SAME and understand that the dumbest kind of diversity is racial/sexuality diversity.... and that the real kind of diversity is in thoughts, education, background ,experience basically what makes you an unique human being, then you truly are a progressive
-If you support secularism and don't want to live under a theocracy, but still understand and support the right of religious institutions to exist, then you are a progressive.
-If you think that education should be a process by which individuals discover themselves and it should be tailored to suit the needs of the people receiving that eduaction, and not to fulfill a bureaucratic checklist, then you are a progressive.
-If you think a job/award/position should go to the best qualified individual instead of having the primary target to accomplish a certain quota by race/gender, then you are a progressive
-If you think that supporting scientific advancement and a cultural environment that promotes the real kind of exceptionalism is a good thing, then you are a progressive
-If you do not try and shut up unpopular opinions and support their right and defend them for saying those things, you are a progressive.


So my dear friends, this what a real progressive should be. And because the people who are exactly the opposite of this have hijacked this term and are using it as cheap PR propaganda to make themselves look good is disgusting and needs to be stopped.

1aquote-chris-hedges.jpg

Man, the way you make it sound I'm about the most progressive person in the world. Then you go and put up a poster from a self advertised socialist. Guess my progressiveness lasted for about 5 seconds. ;)
 

Juanita

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A very interesting thread... I consider myself as a Progressive, which to me means left of Liberal, but right of Socialism.. I was one of those radical liberals that was referred to above, but not a Marxist or even a Socialist.. And altho I often project as a neocon and am pro-gun (with some controls) am not even slightly Conservative...Times have changed.. Republicans have become more conservative and Democrats have become more Liberal...Labels may no longer even apply, and far-right and far left may now be more applicable..
 

Tigger

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Some of us are more than happy to call myself a Regressive if it means correcti g what's wrong with this nation.
 

Rainman05

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The positions you listed are secular, technocratic, racist, and small government conservative, which is arguably consistent with the views of earlier "Progressives" such as Woodow Wilson and Margaret Sanger, but not the people labeled as Progressive today, who are esentially the same as Liberals. You are closest to a Libertarian. Today's Progressives want to use government to make things better.

I see how you tried to sneak this into the topic. Nice try to galvanize the whole thing, you sneaky little [...]The people who are "progressive" today are idiots and they have stolen a good-sounding word to describe their stupidity, corrupting it in the progress.

Perhaps you should send that to your fellow progressives, because what I've seen on this board, there ain't a cup of spit worth of difference between those claiming to be Liberal, Progressive or Socialist. Might also want to go review some of your own posts and see if they match your definitions.

I'm not a progressive. I'm a national liberal. I can work with progressives but not pseudo-progressives. So I don't want people who are pseudo-progressives to be called progressives.

Man, the way you make it sound I'm about the most progressive person in the world. Then you go and put up a poster from a self advertised socialist. Guess my progressiveness lasted for about 5 seconds. ;)

I didn't put Chris Hedges on there for his ideological stance. I didn't even know what his ideological stance is. I put him there because what he says sounds good.
 

radcen

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I'm not a progressive. I'm a national liberal. I can work with progressives but not pseudo-progressives. So I don't want people who are pseudo-progressives to be called progressives.
How do you define a "national liberal"? That's a new one to me.
 

Rainman05

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How do you define a "national liberal"? That's a new one to me.

You combine civic nationalism with economic and social liberalism.
 

Hard Truth

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.....Progressive is not about having state quotas in schools or jobs or anything. If you support affirmative action, you're not a progressive. You're using this term wrong....
Progressive is not about egalitarianism at the point that it is choking every single diferentiation that makes each individual unique....
-If you think that equality should only be in face of the law, and not force everyone to obey the same set of rules that YOU are comfortable with, then you truly are a progressive....
-If you deny the hippy agenda that everyone is THE SAME and understand that the dumbest kind of diversity is racial/sexuality diversity.... and that the real kind of diversity is in thoughts, education, background ,experience basically what makes you an unique human being, then you truly are a progressive...
-If you think a job/award/position should go to the best qualified individual instead of having the primary target to accomplish a certain quota by race/gender, then you are a progressive...
-If you think that supporting scientific advancement and a cultural environment that promotes the real kind of exceptionalism is a good thing, then you are a progressive..............


and I'm the one who brought race into the discussion!?

I see how you tried to sneak this into the topic. Nice try to galvanize the whole thing, you sneaky little [...]....
 
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