• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Programming theory.

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Recently i was trying to figure out how to add a chip to electronic notebooks for excel style programs, and thought the programming must be really messy for this type of program if they deal with every aspect, and that is why it is so expensive and big. then i decided that adding some basic maths to this it would result in much quicker programming techniques, of course.

I found that if you were to add 'logarithms' and 'scales' to the programming code, say pixels of representation or values where they measure, for example, the size of the text within the 'block' or 'field,' you could add values where you say that the text represents how wide the 'block of text' is. this must be done as when you over type the value inside the bloc, then it will go into the next field, if there is no hidden text inside the block. this would mean it would be a right royal mess, if you ask me?

So, i decided that [field display] = [area of text of font] - [hidden text]. i am not sure how to code that as i do not understand the language that much, but, i think maths is very underused in this field of coding. this is why i am suggesting adding programming theories to information technology, including maths requirements.

As it stands now, there are far too many people in this sector, and requiring them to have maths will limit the back log of this. on the other hand, things like finance will be more comely to them, as you make more money anyways.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
94,291
Reaction score
46,736
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You didn't find anything because you didn't add anything to any code. You've never even looked at computer code. You think math is underused in computers.

How old are you?
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
You didn't find anything because you didn't add anything to any code. You've never even looked at computer code. You think math is underused in computers.

How old are you?

I am thirty five and know people that have done information technology degrees without maths, meaning it is underused in this field.
 

zyzygy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
43,804
Reaction score
8,668
Location
Flanders.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I am thirty five and know people that have done information technology degrees without maths, meaning it is underused in this field.

I bet they didn't get a job.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
94,291
Reaction score
46,736
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I am thirty five and know people that have done information technology degrees without maths, meaning it is underused in this field.

IT isn't the same as programming.
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Another thing about programming is that if it is a primitive or simple program or code you are writing in, you could set up a few 'robots' to map the constants, like with graphics being repeated over other repeated graphics.

This would be like saying certain 'symbols' or 'words' equal the robot input area or functions. then, the 'name' of the robot can be set to appear to be 'input' on certain areas or in certain graphics or outputs. then, the program will understand it like it understands 'f keystrokes.'

So, you would set the robot up so it will come in to perform a function, and then quit, which is very good with maths.

Now, if you want to make robots for everything, which is what i do, then you will have a very neat program layout. remembering to jot notes that will not be processed, like text in the program, above each robot, you will be able to navigate better too!
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
When programming sounds or graphics, many programmers only know how to program the 'core.' this could be here they simply put in place the core instructions, like the web of a spider, without the spider or web sack. this plots the area of the program, imagine a building with just supports?

Anyway, sounds and graphics. this is output for the user to observe and interact with the program. to program graphics with robots, you simply need to say if this, then this - this is the fundamental understanding you need of computers. so, if [this], then monitor output [that]. simple right? if you were to work on a black and white monitor like bill gates did, then it comes down to power supply toning the pixels. today we have a graphics card to tone them for us, instead of tell the power supply how hard to go, it tells the video card how hard to go, the card then gets an extra sign as to fine tune the output.

If you wan to program graphics, it is as simple as that. sounds work the same through the sound card, mind you.

Now, if you were to make a robot that replaces the graphics card, this would require a lot of programming content. or, you could program colors into the robots, and then switch between the pixel outputs. this would require very little programming, so could save you on a whole card! remember the card does not go into the monitor, it merely translates things.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
94,291
Reaction score
46,736
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
When programming sounds or graphics, many programmers only know how to program the 'core.' this could be here they simply put in place the core instructions, like the web of a spider, without the spider or web sack. this plots the area of the program, imagine a building with just supports?

Anyway, sounds and graphics. this is output for the user to observe and interact with the program. to program graphics with robots, you simply need to say if this, then this - this is the fundamental understanding you need of computers. so, if [this], then monitor output [that]. simple right? if you were to work on a black and white monitor like bill gates did, then it comes down to power supply toning the pixels. today we have a graphics card to tone them for us, instead of tell the power supply how hard to go, it tells the video card how hard to go, the card then gets an extra sign as to fine tune the output.

If you wan to program graphics, it is as simple as that. sounds work the same through the sound card, mind you.

Now, if you were to make a robot that replaces the graphics card, this would require a lot of programming content. or, you could program colors into the robots, and then switch between the pixel outputs. this would require very little programming, so could save you on a whole card! remember the card does not go into the monitor, it merely translates things.

Um, a graphics card is responsible for performing trillions of calculations per second. It's not merely "translating," it's calculating and rendering. You can't replace it with software "robots."
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Learning one language is often enough if it is used enough, but, simply compiling all languages into one program would be better, yes?

If you learn a language, and the functions are either the same, or they are different, they will overlap fine, if you ask me.

Hey, i got an idea, why don't i make a hybrid computer programming language with some programmers to do the 'hard work?' we can call it hybrid 0.1!
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I remember a while ago a banking friend of mine had a problem all bankers had - their software was nearly obsolete and the files were in an old format. i am not sure what the problem is now, but i remember how i fixed it for them.

Each file had characters on it, in the program. i suggested hacking a excel program from windows to slot all the characters, alphanumeric mind you, and copy them from the format onto the new 'file.' this file was actually a excel slash text file that recorded all the characters, as a program cannot decide what is what, it just understands to place all letters red and all numbers green, yes?

Then it copied the new characters from green and red to respective alloted places for them on the new software.

The day was saved by myself, and my friend sold his program to nearly all the banks.
 

PirateMk1

Resident Martian ;)
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
19,377
Reaction score
9,351
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
I am thirty five and know people that have done information technology degrees without maths, meaning it is underused in this field.

Then you should be familiar with BASIC it would have been still around when you were younger. Let us know how it works without knowing any math.
 

kanabco

Banned
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
350
Reaction score
97
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Recently i was trying to figure out how to add a chip to electronic notebooks for excel style programs, and thought the programming must be really messy for this type of program if they deal with every aspect, and that is why it is so expensive and big. then i decided that adding some basic maths to this it would result in much quicker programming techniques, of course.

I found that if you were to add 'logarithms' and 'scales' to the programming code, say pixels of representation or values where they measure, for example, the size of the text within the 'block' or 'field,' you could add values where you say that the text represents how wide the 'block of text' is. this must be done as when you over type the value inside the bloc, then it will go into the next field, if there is no hidden text inside the block. this would mean it would be a right royal mess, if you ask me?

So, i decided that [field display] = [area of text of font] - [hidden text]. i am not sure how to code that as i do not understand the language that much, but, i think maths is very underused in this field of coding. this is why i am suggesting adding programming theories to information technology, including maths requirements.

As it stands now, there are far too many people in this sector, and requiring them to have maths will limit the back log of this. on the other hand, things like finance will be more comely to them, as you make more money anyways.

You remind me of a colleague years ago who kept a copy of "Godel Escher and Bach: The Eternal Golden Braid" on his desk and at lunch time, every noon for a year, he would unwrap his sandwich, open the book and read some of it. That book is really really complex and difficult to understand so that there even written two or three subsequent books just to explain what the original book meant. Like "Thinking for Dummies" ahead of its time.

You remind me of that guy. I think you read a lot but are possibly not educated or experienced enough to actually understand the print... as if there must exist somewhere a Gutenberg mind-meld that will force understanding from the printed page.

You do not understand much of what you know.
 

FreedomFromAll

Political Parties = Corruption
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
19,017
Reaction score
5,935
Location
New Mexico USA
Gender
Male
Learning one language is often enough if it is used enough, but, simply compiling all languages into one program would be better, yes?

If you learn a language, and the functions are either the same, or they are different, they will overlap fine, if you ask me.

Hey, i got an idea, why don't i make a hybrid computer programming language with some programmers to do the 'hard work?' we can call it hybrid 0.1!

Such a endeavor would only lead to a very unstable headache.
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Error correcting could be made easier by having way points that identify with each other - for example, an error correct could be the fifth robot, but, link back to the first robot, to, if the code gets to a point where it is 'unsure' of what it is doing, as there is some input that it doesn't understand, which would be uncommon, yet it might happen, it could go back and start over instead of exiting the program.

If the fifth robot was to be asked to estimate and calculate the values in the system being processed, then it could easily check back to the saved values. of course, writing this to a chip would see it automatically have error correct robots, storing program code or estimates of the program in process, and recall them to be used later.

The robot could be inserted between any code, and headed by normal text to find the robot or problem. of course, correcting the problem could be done by comparing estimates and finding a pattern - say it is dividing, it could have division tables placed into it, with x and y instead of 1 and 2, of course.
 

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Other approaches to programming would be to get the circuits to produce the output you want it to produce. this goes back to the days of bill gates working in his garage, a generation ago. simply, if you were to want to make a computer or device produce the output you are looking for, then you need to understand that coding could be much easier than a 'language,' yes?

Of course, if you were to merely send charges to the devices, something that can be achieved at the moment, then we could make a perfectly executed program, or host of programs for a multi purpose computer with a host of programs. this would require placing all the 'programs' onto one chip, or, u.s.b. that interfaces with the processor and bios to get your program 'working.'
 

SDET

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
7,802
Reaction score
1,610
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I am thirty five and know people that have done information technology degrees without maths, meaning it is underused in this field.

As someone who has worked for decades in information technology, I can tell you that your assertion is correct. Matrix theory is essential to writing GOOD code. Having a subconscious feel for collections, arrays, structures and the like is essential. A good exercise for aspiring Software Developers/Engineers/Architect is to work gobs of matrix calculations and differential equations. If you want to separate a good software person from the hacks watch how they do statistics calculations. Do they use memorized formulas or do they use matrices?

I too have met several software people who are not mathematically inclined. They are called copy-and-paste programmers. They take GUI applications and turn them into gooey applications.
 
Last edited:

BrettNortje

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
793
Reaction score
22
Location
Cape Town
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
As someone who has worked for decades in information technology, I can tell you that your assertion is correct. Matrix theory is essential to writing GOOD code. Having a subconscious feel for collections, arrays, structures and the like is essential. A good exercise for aspiring Software Developers/Engineers/Architect is to work gobs of matrix calculations and differential equations. If you want to separate a good software person from the hacks watch how they do statistics calculations. Do they use memorized formulas or do they use matrices?

I too have met several software people who are not mathematically inclined. They are called copy-and-paste programmers. They take GUI applications and turn them into gooey applications.

Of course having a good maths background is rather important to write good code. copying and pasting graphics is like piracy, actually, only supplied by either decompiling, which is highly illegal in some cases, or getting exactly the same program graphics interface for the program.

If you were to form an idea about what you want your program to be like, you need guidelines to follow for writing your code. if you were to want to write an accounting program - quite a popular one mind you - you would need to merely observe a few open source from excel or another accounting program and change the colors a bit to get the calculations done. of course, if you believe in the evolution of code, then you would need to merely write a good field code to hold all the information and display all the information, then have multiple robots linking other fields to that one, doing basic calculations.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,660
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Recently i was trying to figure out how to add a chip to electronic notebooks for excel style programs, and thought the programming must be really messy for this type of program if they deal with every aspect, and that is why it is so expensive and big. then i decided that adding some basic maths to this it would result in much quicker programming techniques, of course.

I found that if you were to add 'logarithms' and 'scales' to the programming code, say pixels of representation or values where they measure, for example, the size of the text within the 'block' or 'field,' you could add values where you say that the text represents how wide the 'block of text' is. this must be done as when you over type the value inside the bloc, then it will go into the next field, if there is no hidden text inside the block. this would mean it would be a right royal mess, if you ask me?

So, i decided that [field display] = [area of text of font] - [hidden text]. i am not sure how to code that as i do not understand the language that much, but, i think maths is very underused in this field of coding. this is why i am suggesting adding programming theories to information technology, including maths requirements.

As it stands now, there are far too many people in this sector, and requiring them to have maths will limit the back log of this. on the other hand, things like finance will be more comely to them, as you make more money anyways.

??? Do you have ANY idea how much you don't know?? You don't have to add a chip for a specific program, you just have to have space to install it. Auto-sizing a field is EASY. When I've had to do it in code (instead of just using built-in auto sizing properties), it's 5 lines of code at most (create a variable, check the needed field width against the variable's value, if it's greater than the variable's value, set the variable to the needed width, set the field width). Anyone trying to write a spreadsheet program from scratch is dumb. Too many open source solutions for that ancient piece of tech for anyone with two neurons to rub together to ever consider re-inventing that wheel.
 

SDET

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
7,802
Reaction score
1,610
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
??? Do you have ANY idea how much you don't know?? You don't have to add a chip for a specific program, you just have to have space to install it. Auto-sizing a field is EASY. When I've had to do it in code (instead of just using built-in auto sizing properties), it's 5 lines of code at most (create a variable, check the needed field width against the variable's value, if it's greater than the variable's value, set the variable to the needed width, set the field width). Anyone trying to write a spreadsheet program from scratch is dumb. Too many open source solutions for that ancient piece of tech for anyone with two neurons to rub together to ever consider re-inventing that wheel.

I would rather have a malleable intern any day of the week than a zombie employee that just wants to copy-and-paste their way through the day. Someone who wants to write their own spreadsheet as an academic exercise is OK in my book.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,660
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I would rather have a malleable intern any day of the week than a zombie employee that just wants to copy-and-paste their way through the day. Someone who wants to write their own spreadsheet as an academic exercise is OK in my book.

I guess that in my world, academic exercises tend to take a back seat to getting the job done fast and right.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,660
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Learning one language is often enough if it is used enough, but, simply compiling all languages into one program would be better, yes?

If you learn a language, and the functions are either the same, or they are different, they will overlap fine, if you ask me.

Hey, i got an idea, why don't i make a hybrid computer programming language with some programmers to do the 'hard work?' we can call it hybrid 0.1!

You could call it C#...
 

SDET

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
7,802
Reaction score
1,610
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
You could call it C#...

That's funny, I don't care who you are. So you want him to call his new language C-Pound? I have talked to a few recruiters that were looking for C-Pound experts. :lol:
 

Binary_Digit

DP Veteran
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
7,475
Reaction score
6,203
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
For most developers, math is not "underused" it's "overrated."

College made me take Calc 1, 2, 3, statistics, linear algebra, pretty much going all the way through mathematics and coming out the other side. You know how much of that math I've used professionally in my 15+ years actually on the job? Maybe 2%. You don't need to rotate and multiply matrices unless you're building a custom 3D engine to compete with AutoCAD or something. And the math concepts we learned that were applicable in software were not directly usable in software; I had to totally re-learn what I'd been taught about sine and cosine when I started using them in code.

What I didn't learn in college were things like multithreading, socket programming, and design patterns & best practices. Things that most developers need to know every day.

Academia needs to recognize the difference between Computer Science and Software Engineering and split them into two separate degrees. Software Engineering needs half as many math courses and twice as many coding courses. Right now there's a fundamental disconnect between what Academia thinks they need, and what they actually do need. I've interviewed people with PhDs in CS and recommended against hiring them because they had virtually no "street smarts" when it came to actually writing code.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,660
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
That's funny, I don't care who you are. So you want him to call his new language C-Pound? I have talked to a few recruiters that were looking for C-Pound experts. :lol:

That's C SHARP. You know the latest and greatest programming language. Maybe you need to set aside your COBAL books, upgrade from Win 3.1 and join the rest of us in the 21st century. :mrgreen:
 
Top Bottom