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Problems within the GOP

Amadeus

Chews the Cud
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What would you say are the main problems within the Republican party? Lets keep the needless party bashing to a minimum, if possible.
 
Amadeus said:
What would you say are the main problems within the Republican party? Lets keep the needless party bashing to a minimum, if possible.
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Patience, for one. The Repubs are about to commit political suicide by cooperating with the Dems to pass amnesty and legalization for 20 million illegals .. who will then mostly vote for the Dems. The Repubs would do well to simply reject that injustice to American citizens, gain points in so doing, and wait until the skin-color phenomenon passes and then field a truly presidential candidate.

The other is their tendency to do nothing and wait for a problem to go away on its own, something problems never do. Where the liberal dems are like uranium, rushing about helter-skelter trying to change everything they can and in a dysfunctional way and result, the conservative Repubs are like lead moving hardly at all to do anything, also a dysfunction. The Repubs need to be more open to taking action to solve problems, like the lingering effects of The Great Recession, rather than just letting things foolishly happen .. until The Greatest Depression hits us.
 
The biggest problem within the Republican party is conservative media. Conservative media has paved the way for the rise of the radical "conservative" movement, which has really hamstrung the Republican party when it comes to the national picture. While Republicans have actually been strengthened on the more regional levels, on the national level, radical conservatism has turned many people away from the Republican party. There is absolutely no reason Republicans should have lost the 2012 elections as bad as they did. Everything was, objectively speaking, in their favor. But Republicans moved so far to the right, they alienated many people.

To "fix" the Republican Party is far easier to say than to put into action, but the best way is for Republicans to quit worrying about primary challenges and more towards a moderate position (not necessarily to the middle, but moderate) on issues the nation cares about. Eventually the Republican voters would move with them. The problem with this is it will cost too many Republican Congress people their jobs during primary elections for the first couple of elections.

The Republican Party is in a very difficult position right now. It will take a massive miscalculation on the part of the Democrats to swing the pendulum of national power back towards the Republican Party. Fortunately for them, Democrats do have a tendency to do that, so who knows how the future will play out.
 
Amadeus said:
What would you say are the main problems within the Republican party? Lets keep the needless party bashing to a minimum, if possible.
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They need to run someone who is actually.... oh I don't.... different to the democrats? McCain was basically a democrat. Romney was demo-lite. Bush was more in the middle than anyone wanted to admit.

We need someone who is truly a right-wing candidate. As long as they keep running these donkey republicans, I'll keep voting for 3rd party candidates.
 
In order to win a couple elections, Rove encorporated the tea party and christian right types into the fold, using the rightwing noise machine (the partisan think tanks and media the GOP has put together over the past 40 years). Before that, the GOP really didn't cater to these knownothings directly. But Rove saw them as an untapped resource to combat declining demographics.

Once Palin came onto the scene, Rove understand what a mistake that was and regretted the Golem he created. He and establishment Republicans (i.e., educated people who don't really believe their own propaganda) suddenly found themselves being overwhelmed by people who believe in demons and conspiracies. Since then, most of his typical venom is directed at the Palin, Bachmann types, because he realized that although they won the GOP a few elections, they mean its eventual extinction.

I think this is something of a death spiral for the GOP. Rove can't turn the rightwing noise machine off, and it can only get more and more extreme. Eventually I see the GOP breaking off into a moderate centrist party and an extremist party. But either way, it's day is done. At this point, it's just thrashing around.
 
I still think that Jon Huntsman is a dynamite candidate, but for some reason the GOP won't touch him with a 10-foot pole.
 
The social conservatives have wrestled control from the fiscal conservatives and the latter are in revolt, disavowing the GOP nominees and/or calling themselves libertarians as a way to hijack their anti-tax agenda.
 
Amadeus said:
I still think that Jon Huntsman is a dynamite candidate, but for some reason the GOP won't touch him with a 10-foot pole.
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He is boring as watching paint dry, cannot speak in soundbytes, and gets marginalized by never getting coverage from the MSM because he does not give them good short quotes to pontificate on for an hour.
 
Amadeus said:
I still think that Jon Huntsman is a dynamite candidate, but for some reason the GOP won't touch him with a 10-foot pole.
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He left for China, and when he came back, his party was transformed into a cabal of conspiracy theorists. Huntsman is a decent politician. He's just in the wrong party. He could run as a Democrat and do quite well. I might vote for him.
 
Fisher said:
The social conservatives have wrestled control from the fiscal conservatives and the latter are in revolt, disavowing the GOP nominees and/or calling themselves libertarians as a way to hijack their anti-tax agenda.
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This is something of a false history. The social conservatives and ideologs have always held sway in the GOP. That's what the Cold War was about. Fiscal conservatism was alway just an afterthought.
 
The GOP nationally doesnt take any cues from the many, many successful governorships throughout the country. Look at what they are doing, what fights they are picking, and emulate that. Why? Because its working.
 
biggest problem? years of entitlements have created an electorate of parasites who will vote for those who give them the most goodies. more takers than makers
 

I seriously don't get this response, even though I've heard it dozens of times. What alternate reality are you living in? Or which one am I living in? I'm game if I'm the one losing touch, but you need to prove it to me.

Where is this 'radical' conservatism? Who are you talking about? Where are these mythical candidates? When did they move to the right?

Romney? Government Health care Romney? The one whose health policy was the basis for Obama Care? That's radical conservatism in your world?

"more towards a moderate position (not necessarily to the middle, but moderate) on issues the nation cares about. Eventually the Republican voters would move with them."

Never! I will never move with a republican toward a position that is against the fundamental beliefs I hold. Most republicans won't either. A very large portion of the Republican base won't either. There's no point in doing that. You are going to vote for someone that violates the primary issues you believe in? Why bother?

For example, I'll never vote for a Republican again for the rest of my life if they support: gay non-marriage, government run health care (or any step in that direction), bailouts of anything, gun control, legalized murdering children.

Any candidate that supports any, or all, of those positions, will never get my vote. I know many people who feel the same way.

Having Republicans move toward any of those positions, will never result in 'eventually voters would move with them'. No they won't. I promise you they won't. It will never happen.

Seriously the last radical conservative we've had in the last 50 years, was Ronald Reagan, and he won with a land slide victory in both elections. Bush Sr was a moderate, and he didn't last. Since then we've had a moderate Bob Dole, who failed fast. And other than Bush Jr, who was as close to Reagan as any recent Republican candidate has gotten, we've had McCain and Romney, neither of which was even remotely conservative.

I do not see where anyone can look at history and conclude the problem is with massive radical conservatives, or that moving to a moderate positions has done anything but give the election to Democrats. Even Rush Limbaugh back in the day, said openly every time the Republicans run a Democrat (moderate) Republican, the public will choose a real Democrat, over the fake one, every time. I knew the very DAY that Romney won the primary, that Obama would get reelected because Romney wasn't an alternative. It was like voting between Obama and Obama lite.
 
Slyfox696 said:
The biggest problem within the Republican party is conservative media. Conservative media has paved the way for the rise of the radical "conservative" movement, which has really hamstrung the Republican party when it comes to the national picture.
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TurtleDude said:
biggest problem? years of entitlements have created an electorate of parasites who will vote for those who give them the most goodies. more takers than makers
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I think my argument has now been supported.
 
Amadeus said:
What would you say are the main problems within the Republican party? Lets keep the needless party bashing to a minimum, if possible.
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Same-sex marriage and abortion. SSM time has come. It's time to listen to the people. And, IMO, the majority of Americans don't care. Abortion. Abortions are legal. Work within the framework and let it go. Perhaps focus energy on education and support in order to decrease their numbers. But let it go, for God's sake.
 
head of joaquin said:
This is something of a false history. The social conservatives and ideologs have always held sway in the GOP. That's what the Cold War was about. Fiscal conservatism was alway just an afterthought.
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The 1% needs 49.01% to win. Reagan legalized abortion in CA and it wasn't held against him and he talked tough about welfare queens but still signed off on programs for the poor. Pacifying social conservatism was always a means to an end within the GOP. Everything changed in both parties during the Clinton v. Gingrich era that has fed exponential increases in cultural/social ideology litmus tests. Now it is all about social ideology.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I think my argument has now been supported.
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I fail to find any support or merit in your argument. the fact its easier to buy votes when you are handing out the wealth of the few

its easier to win elections when 80% of the stuff people see on TV is biased in favor of the welfare socialist side of the argument. even most of the TV shows are pro left.
 

So in 2008, the choices boiled down to Giuliani, Hunter, Huckabee, Paul, Romney, Keyes and Thompson – which one would have been your pick and do you think he could have done any better than McCain?

In 2012 the choices were Romney again, Gingrich, Santorum, Paul, Bachman, Cain, Huntsman, Perry, Pawlenty and for a wee bit, Johnson and Roemer – Again which one would have been your choice and do you think he could have done any better than Romney?

I don’t think if your party ran Abraham Lincoln in 2008, he would have won. The country’s mood was plain anti-Republican. You have these types of elections once every so often. In 2012, I think Obama was vulnerable, but the right candidate had to be chosen, Romney wasn’t it.
 
OpportunityCost said:
The GOP nationally doesnt take any cues from the many, many successful governorships throughout the country. Look at what they are doing, what fights they are picking, and emulate that. Why? Because its working.
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With 30 plus governors, the Republican Party ought to be looking there for their next candidate for president.
 
Amadeus said:
What would you say are the main problems within the Republican party? Lets keep the needless party bashing to a minimum, if possible.
Click to expand...

The 'main problem' is they did not win the presidential election in 2008 and 2012 but that is about it. The political pendulum swung to the left in '06 and then further in '08. The electorate didn't (and historically hasn't) preferred it 'all one way' for very long. The '10 midterm is evidence of this. The '12 election was an affirmation of this in that the pendulum didn't move either way post election. '14 will be interesting.
 
Perotista said:
With 30 plus governors, the Republican Party ought to be looking there for their next candidate for president.
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Technically Romney WAS a Republican governor...?
 
Sparkles said:
I seriously don't get this response, even though I've heard it dozens of times. What alternate reality are you living in? Or which one am I living in?
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I cannot tell you where you are living, but I'm living in the real world. And I don't mean that show on MTV.

Where is this 'radical' conservatism? Who are you talking about? Where are these mythical candidates? When did they move to the right?
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Well, how about these nuggets from the last election?

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." - Todd Akin, Senate candidate
"Last summer I was a lone voice saying: "Do not increase the debt ceiling." - Michelle Bachmann, Congresswoman
"One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country.... Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that's okay, contraception is okay. It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be." - Rick Santorum, Republican nominee candidate

And of course, the ultimate boneheaded comment:

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives." - Mitt Romney, Republican nominee for President

Romney? Government Health care Romney? The one whose health policy was the basis for Obama Care? That's radical conservatism in your world?
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But look how quickly Romney ran away from that. Romney ran as fast as he could from the Affordable Care Act, because he knew it would not play well with radical conservatives. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I can't say what you will do, but Republicans will. Most party voters are sheep, regardless of whether they vote Democrat or Republican. I mean, look at how much support immigration reform is now getting from Republicans, now that the party is moving in that direction.

The party voters will move with the party.

For example, I'll never vote for a Republican again for the rest of my life if they support: gay non-marriage, government run health care (or any step in that direction), bailouts of anything, gun control, legalized murdering children.
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And many of those view points are falling farther and farther away from what most Americans want.

Having Republicans move toward any of those positions, will never result in 'eventually voters would move with them'. No they won't. I promise you they won't. It will never happen.
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Yes, they will. Already Republicans are hopping on the gay marriage bandwagon. The bailout started by George Bush has not done anything to significantly effect their voter base. Voters will move with the party, because too many people vote for party, not based on informed opinions (in both parties)

Seriously the last radical conservative we've had in the last 50 years, was Ronald Reagan, and he won with a land slide victory in both elections.
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Ronald Reagan would be called a RINO by today's Republicans. If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will.
TurtleDude said:
I fail to find any support or merit in your argument.
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I assure you I expected nothing else from you.

Sparkles said:
Your post didn't support your argument, or make any point at all. Try again.
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No, your post and the other post supported exactly what I was talking about. Why try again when I nailed it the first time?
 
tl dr-SOP. whining about Romney being basically truthful is funny. bottom line, almost half the country sucks from the public tit and wants the rest of us to keep paying for the milk
 
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