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Problem with being a Democrat is being a Democrat

DeeJayH

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Carville: Dems need stronger narrative to win
http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/07/434637e79a469
By Elizabeth Gibson
October 07, 2005

The problem with Democrat campaign speeches is “litany,” and they need more narrative like Winnie the Pooh stories, political consultant and pundit James Carville said.

At a speech sponsored by the Northwestern College Democrats Thursday evening, Carville told the audience that Democratic candidates can’t succeed by shouting out to every group in a crowd. Instead candidates should tell stories with the three elements of any good story — setup, conflict and resolution
seems reasonable to me
 

DivineComedy

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DeeJayH said:
seems reasonable to me
The usurers have given me an epiphany, since I have no power except the vote, I just do not know what to do with it.

“You have probably caught that Visa credit card commercial in which a wily wife hides her many shopping sprees under the bed and up in the attic, all out of sight from her clueless husband.
The punch line is that she could have won all that stuff she rung up on the plastic. But the reality behind such behavior is hardly a laughing matter.”
http://www.freep.com/features/living/binge16w_20050116.htm

Who do I vote for to get reasonable laws, that can prevent what the usurers at VISA think is funny?

What happens when you are living under a tarp after a hurricane? The usurers (VISA) will kick you when you are down and demand full payment immediately, even if you acquired the debt as described in the above VISA commercial, even if you say you will pay them off when your house is fixed. To all those in trouble, you can’t get a home loan while your house is an expensive tent, and if you have to sell you sell at a loss so that the usurers can scarf it up. Nobody cares why you file for bankruptcy, nobody cares how you acquired the debt (you must be responsible), they only see that you are bankrupt. You had better hope that you can repair your home enough for a home loan before the usurers can

I feel sick, because I know the truth for the first time in my life, in that the party I have been supporting all these years does not care to write wholesome and reasonable laws for our protection from predators.

Now, you ask, why did I post this here?

Write a Winnie the Pooh tragedy that reflects the above scenario and have the candidates offer real solutions to the problem, then the best solutions will get my vote.

Personally I think we should just feed all of the usurers to Tigger.
 

Kandahar

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I think the biggest problem with the Democratic Party is that they continue to nominate candidates who look and act like robots. Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter both came off as likeable humans rather than automatons dedicated to policy, and they were both elected.

While I don't agree with many parts of the Democratic agenda (specifically related to economics), I don't think that their agenda is the biggest problem. John Kerry was left-of-center but was hardly an extremist; Al Gore definitely was not.
 

Diogenes

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DivineComedy said:
Write a Winnie the Pooh tragedy that reflects the above scenario and have the candidates offer real solutions to the problem, then the best solutions will get my vote.
Your key phrase is "have the candidates offer real solutions to the problem" and that is the core problem of the Democrats.

The Dem complaint that they "didn't get the message out" is baseless; they did get the message out, and the voters realized there was nothing there. Carville's proposed solution for repackaging the message is only cosmetic because there actually has be a real message with real proposals for real solutions, not just complaints.

The Dems appear to be intellectually bankrupt, and badly in need of a visionary.
 

Kandahar

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I agree that the Dems need some ideas, but George Bush has proven that you can win an election with no ideas other than "stay the course." So that can't be their ONLY problem.

With that said, here's a platform the Democrats should be using, complete with real ideas. I don't know if it would resonate with the American people, but my guess is that most people agree with most of these:

1. End corporate welfare
2. End pork-barrel spending
3. Withdraw from Iraq
4. Protect abortion rights and civil liberties
5. Support civil unions
6. Electoral reform
7. Balance the budget

It's simple, it's honest, and it wouldn't make too many people mad.
 

DeeJayH

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Kandahar said:
I agree that the Dems need some ideas, but George Bush has proven that you can win an election with no ideas other than "stay the course." So that can't be their ONLY problem.
in my opinion the reason bush won was because Kerry offered but one solution to problems: " go to my website"
he failed to articulate his platform
and thank god for it, but he could have won, if he spelled out his plans, instead of attacking bush and giving out his URL

Kandahar said:
1. End corporate welfare
2. End pork-barrel spending
3. Withdraw from Iraq
4. Protect abortion rights and civil liberties
5. Support civil unions
6. Electoral reform
7. Balance the budget
no problem with 1, 2, 5, & 7 and half of 4
Abortion is an abomination
Rowe V Wade has to go, all it did was allow for abortion on demand for any reason
as a result 40 million lifes have been thrown in a dumpster
with a small minority of them that could even be remotely argued as necessary for health or rape/incest

I support civil unions but not gay marriage

government can not force electoral reform
the people must demand new parties to counter the 2 party system that has led to the folly we currently find ourselves in

We will leave Iraq when the job is done
to do anything else ,would be far worse than anything we have been accused of, up until now
 

Kandahar

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DeeJayH said:
government can not force electoral reform
the people must demand new parties to counter the 2 party system that has led to the folly we currently find ourselves in
I disagree. In fact, the current system makes it all but impossible for a viable third-party to even emerge. The biggest problems I see with our electoral system are that 1) It's too easy for incumbents to get reelected, 2) Congress and the electoral college are not representative of the will of the people, 3) There is very little diversity of ideas since there are usually only two main candidates on the ballot.

I think the necessary steps are changing the way districts are drawn by assigning the task to a non-partisan group, allowing people to rank the candidates rather than just voting for one, and (while not politically possible at this point) to eliminate the electoral college.

DeeJayH said:
We will leave Iraq when the job is done
to do anything else ,would be far worse than anything we have been accused of, up until now
"When the job is done" implies that we are somehow making progress toward a clearly defined goal, when we are not. I've accepted it as a given that we WILL lose in Iraq and we WILL cut and run at some point. The only question is how many more American lives and dollars must be wasted before we do so.
 

DeeJayH

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Kandahar said:
2) Congress and the electoral college are not representative of the will of the people,
what do you want, mob rule
Pure Democracy, 1 man 1 vote period is a flawed way to conduct the govt

Kandahar said:
I think the necessary steps are changing the way districts are drawn by assigning the task to a non-partisan group
no such thing as a non partisan, unless you let grade-schoolers or the ignorant do it
Kandahar said:
allowing people to rank the candidates rather than just voting for one
I see no benefits to this whatsoever

Kandahar said:
"When the job is done" implies that we are somehow making progress toward a clearly defined goal, when we are not. I've accepted it as a given that we WILL lose in Iraq and we WILL cut and run at some point
sad world you live in
we are succeeding in Iraq
and we will probably be drawing down the troops there during end of next summer or fall.
if you listened to more than the MSM you might realize there is alot more good going on than is reported.
Ask any soldier who served
The media has painted Iraq as an abissimal failure
when it is not
it will go down, in my opinion, as a war fought, as best as it could be, given the conditions. As in no battlefront, no uniforms on the enemy....

so far as the clearly defined goal, do you watch any news?
do you listen to the president, the Def Sec or anybody
when Iraq is up and running and able to care for itself we will be out
that means creating a new government. Creating a new military, etc...
all of which are being done, but all that gets reported is car bombs, IEDs, beheadings, and 60+ front page stories about Abu Gharaib on the NYTimes
 

Kandahar

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DeeJayH said:
what do you want, mob rule
Pure Democracy, 1 man 1 vote period is a flawed way to conduct the govt
There are ways of having a representative democracy without mob rule. We do have a Constitution last I checked.

DeeJayH said:
no such thing as a non partisan, unless you let grade-schoolers or the ignorant do it
That's not true. There are a few easily-defined parameters (districts should be roughly rectangular, consecutive) that any committee should be able to work from. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a lot better than having politicians draw up their own districts to ensure their reelection.

DeeJayH said:
I see no benefits to this whatsoever
Today people often don't vote for their first choice candidate if they feel it's a lost cause. If we allowed people to rank candidates, they'd be able to vote for whomever they wanted while also voting for a candidate with a chance of winning.

DeeJayH said:
sad world you live in
we are succeeding in Iraq
and we will probably be drawing down the troops there during end of next summer or fall.
If we do draw down troops in Iraq, it will be because George Bush has finally realized that we're fighting a losing game.

DeeJayH said:
if you listened to more than the MSM you might realize there is alot more good going on than is reported.
Ask any soldier who served
The media has painted Iraq as an abissimal failure
when it is not
The insurgency is stronger than it has ever been before, the constitution draft basically shuns the Sunnis, and the Shiite/Kurd coalition is on the verge of collapse. How is this anything other than an abysmal failure?

DeeJayH said:
it will go down, in my opinion, as a war fought, as best as it could be, given the conditions. As in no battlefront, no uniforms on the enemy....
:spin:
That should've been anticipated and planned for BEFORE we launched an invasion.

DeeJayH said:
so far as the clearly defined goal, do you watch any news?
do you listen to the president, the Def Sec or anybody
when Iraq is up and running and able to care for itself we will be out
that means creating a new government.
That's not a clearly defined goal. If Iraq establishes an Islamic Republic similar to Iran's, will you consider it an accomplishment? If the insurgency dies down but remains a hotbed for international terrorists, will you consider it an accomplishment? Who decides when Iraq is "up and running and able to care for itself"?
 

DeeJayH

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Kandahar said:
There are ways of having a representative democracy without mob rule. We do have a Constitution last I checked.
than maybe you can clarify your position

Kandahar said:
districts should be roughly rectangular, consecutive
the country is not made of rectangles
states are not made of rectangles, except a couple
towns / cities are not made of rectangles
this idea is flawed and unrealistic
very poorly thought out

Kandahar said:
Today people often don't vote for their first choice candidate if they feel it's a lost cause.
dont know what kind of losers you hang out with
but everyone i know votes for who they think is best for the job
whether it is the incumbent, the underdog, the party line, etc.....
only a loser wouldnt support the one they think should win, just because they dont think he can win
Kandahar said:
If we do draw down troops in Iraq, it will be because George Bush has finally realized that we're fighting a losing game.
keep dreaming
Kandahar said:
The insurgency is stronger than it has ever been before, the constitution draft basically shuns the Sunnis, and the Shiite/Kurd coalition is on the verge of collapse. How is this anything other than an abysmal failure?
last time i looked, they had an election, they were working on the founding documents. The rest is speculation

Kandahar said:
That's not a clearly defined goal. If Iraq establishes an Islamic Republic similar to Iran's, will you consider it an accomplishment?
if thats what those idiots choose so be it. We cannot dictate their form of government

kandahar said:
If the insurgency dies down but remains a hotbed for international terrorists, will you consider it an accomplishment?
if that is the case, as it is now, we will stil be there. so your question is rather absurd

kandahar said:
Who decides when Iraq is "up and running and able to care for itself"?
those representing the Iraqi people
we are in Iraq at the pleasure of the Iraqi government
when they are ready, they will thank us and tell us to go on our way to syria or iran
 

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Diogenes said:
The Dems appear to be intellectually bankrupt, and badly in need of a visionary.
The Democratic party is dying. It is liberalism that is killing them. Not all Democrats have suffered this outbreak. There are still some good Democrats left. Example; When Americans are laying dead in our cities due to an attack from our terrorist enemies whether it be a nuclear or biological weapon, the mind infected with liberalism will still not understand the purpose in why we fight terror. Liberalism only seeks to attack, divide and dehumanize America for their own political gain.

It just so happens that the Democratic party for the most part has succumbed to this plague known as liberalism....
 

cnredd

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ThePhoenix said:
The Democratic party is dying. It is liberalism that is killing them. Not all Democrats have suffered this outbreak. There are still some good Democrats left. Example; When Americans are laying dead in our cities due to an attack from our terrorist enemies whether it be a nuclear or biological weapon, the mind infected with liberalism will still not understand the purpose in why we fight terror. Liberalism only seeks to attack, divide and dehumanize America for their own political gain.

It just so happens that the Democratic party for the most part has succumbed to this plague known as liberalism....
And thus; the hijack...Lieberman, Bayh, Lautenberg, Inouye, & Dorgan have been marginalized by, Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Dean, & Feinstein...not to mention the "lower realm" of the heirarchy consisting of Jackson, Sharpton, and the "bipartisan:roll:" organizations of the ACLU, NOW, and the NAACPETCPWDTLU...If I were a Democrat, my first question would be, "Do I really want these people representing me?"...:shock:
 

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ThePhoenix said:
The Democratic party is dying. It is liberalism that is killing them. Not all Democrats have suffered this outbreak. There are still some good Democrats left. Example; When Americans are laying dead in our cities due to an attack from our terrorist enemies whether it be a nuclear or biological weapon, the mind infected with liberalism will still not understand the purpose in why we fight terror. Liberalism only seeks to attack, divide and dehumanize America for their own political gain.

It just so happens that the Democratic party for the most part has succumbed to this plague known as liberalism....
Agreed, and this is a Bad Thing for all of us. IMO we need competition in the marketplace of ideas to keep the nation on its toes. The Dems can't win, because their primary system has been hijacked by fringe elements and a Good Democrat (I agree there are still a few around) can't win the nomination. This allows the Republicans too much slack, with the result that they lose focus and try to be all things to all people; and inevitably they do it badly.

For example, the Republicans are spending much too freely on pork projects at a time when they should really be debating priorities. The classic case of Congressional compromise occurred in the late eighties, over a fighter plane that no foreign country would buy unless the US Air Force (which didn't want them) also bought a few. The Democrat House voted to buy 12 of them, the Democrat Senate voted to buy 6 of them, and in conference they settled on 18. We are now seeing the Republicans heading toward that same kind of nonsense.

Side note: the city of Bozeman, MT, is getting something like $400k for bike trails in this year's transportation bill. After hurricane Katrina some of the Bozeman citizens suggested giving the money to hurricane relief instead, the idea got publicity in the Wall Street Journal, and that raised a round of questions about other pork projects. The political pros quickly buried the idea; power comes from bringing home the bacon.
 

cnredd

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Any Democrat who still respects themselves should be begging for Gephardt's return...
 

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Originally Posted by DeeJayH:
those representing the Iraqi people
we are in Iraq at the pleasure of the Iraqi government
when they are ready, they will thank us and tell us to go on our way to syria or iran
Oh, this is rich. Excuse me while I pull my pant legs up. I don't want to get them dirty. Imagine an occupation army coming into the US and shooting our citizens, bombing our hospitals, raiding our homes at 3 in the morning, using our churches as barracks for their troops, restricting our movements so much you go thru 5 check points to get to the market, everytime you look at them they point a gun at you, they take control of our natural resources and then, DeeJayH......are you listening, and then, after 2-3 years of this bullshit were going to say, "Oh yeah, you guys were right. You know what's best for us. Thank you for destroying our infrastructure. Were soooooo grateful." Is this what you would call a pleasure? Talk about conservative pyscho-babble.
 

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Originally posted by cnredd:
Any Democrat who still respects themselves should be begging for Gephardt's return...
Democrats haven't done anything to be respected for. Republicans are just plain liars and criminals.
 

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Billo_Really said:
Democrats haven't done anything to be respected for. Republicans are just plain liars and criminals.
It is the liberals that have nothing to to be respected for they are killing the Democrats, Everyone is guilty of lying at one time or another and to classify a group of people just because they are Republican as criminals is slander in my book and that would make it a crime in itself. And the Green party as of yet and I suspect never, has and will never have anything of value to offer America. To be honest, I even forgot about there existence.
 

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Originally Posted by ThePhoenix:
It is the liberals that have nothing to to be respected for they are killing the Democrats, Everyone is guilty of lying at one time or another and to classify a group of people just because they are Republican as criminals is slander in my book and that would make it a crime in itself. And the Green party as of yet and I suspect never, has and will never have anything of value to offer America. To be honest, I even forgot about there existence.
Let me see, how many Republicans are being investigated? How many people have died from the lies they told in their bullshit war on terror?
 

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Billo_Really said:
Oh, this is rich. Excuse me while I pull my pant legs up. I don't want to get them dirty. Imagine an occupation army coming into the US and shooting our citizens, bombing our hospitals, raiding our homes at 3 in the morning, using our churches as barracks for their troops, restricting our movements so much you go thru 5 check points to get to the market, everytime you look at them they point a gun at you, they take control of our natural resources and then, DeeJayH......are you listening, and then, after 2-3 years of this bullshit were going to say, "Oh yeah, you guys were right. You know what's best for us. Thank you for destroying our infrastructure. Were soooooo grateful." Is this what you would call a pleasure? Talk about conservative pyscho-babble.
and yet so many Iraqis greeted us with smiles, cheers and appreciation for liberating them
if we were under the heel of a brutal dictator i do believe we would appreciate UK or Australia coming to the rescue
but since we happen to be the superpower this will not happen for a long time, if ever
 

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Originally posted by DeeJayH:
get back to me when you have convictions
So you think O.J. was innocent?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by DeeJayH:
and yet so many Iraqis greeted us with smiles, cheers and appreciation for liberating them
if we were under the heel of a brutal dictator i do believe we would appreciate UK or Australia coming to the rescue
but since we happen to be the superpower this will not happen for a long time, if ever
Speaking of super power, I here we have got Iraqi electrical power up to 12 hours a day! Super.
 

DeeJayH

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Billo_Really said:
So you think O.J. was innocent?
him and Jack-0 guilty as sin
OJ should have been convicted, Whacko was not properly prosecuted and should not of been convicted.
but maybe you should hear some evidence before convicting the Rep/cons
Billo_Really said:
Speaking of super power, I here we have got Iraqi electrical power up to 12 hours a day! Super
nice technique.
10s all around
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by DeeJayH:
nice technique.
10s all around
Why thank you.

I'd just like to say I accept this on behalf of the academy and......my cat (who has never lied to me)......but is a problem during dinner.
 
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