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Pro-Lifers at what time limit would you be willing to set abortion? [W:244]

Pro-Lifers at what time limit would you be willing to set abortion?


  • Total voters
    7
1. I'm sorry. We went through that. It was hard.
2. If that's how you deal with it, fine - no one is going to win in that kind of discussion.
3. That being said, your individual experience aside, that is precisely how people talk about it. Never have I ever heard someone say of a woman who has had a miscarraige that they lost the tissue, they say she lost the baby.

1.thank you.
2. Correct.
3. My friends and relatives told me they were sorry I had a miscarrige.

No one said to me , "Sorry you lost your baby"... Like I misplaced a baby and was not able to find it again.
 
.... Minnie staked out a claim about what should be and then when challenged on it retreated to what the law was. If she wishes now to argue that she believes that the two are indistinguishable, she needs to make that explicit, otherwise she is left self-contradicting...
.

No, I said I agreed that at viability a fetus became a potential person and I agreed with states interest to limit abortion at viability except in cases of risk of life or irreparable health of the woman. I also added that I personally thought severe fetal and severe genetic abnormalities should also be exceptions.

Except for the abnormalities , that is in line with the Supreme Courts decision.
 
1.thank you.
2. Correct.
3. My friends and relatives told me they were sorry I had a miscarrige.

No one said to me , "Sorry you lost your baby"... Like I misplaced a baby and was not able to find it again.

Well over fifty years ago my mother miscarried and she certainly made it clear that she "had lost the baby".
 
Well over fifty years ago my mother miscarried and she certainly made it clear that she "had lost the baby".

WB...It's not uncommon for people to use the word "baby", in a prenatal state, but it's really more a term of endearment. However in a medical situation where a provider had to submit a report regarding a miscarriage, the specifics related to the fetus...wouldn't include the word "baby". If there was a legal case that involved a murder related to the Unborn Victims Act, I assure you that the word "baby" wouldn't be used to specifically detail the development stage of the fetus during a proceeding.

Thanks...
 
Life's too short, I agree. We are lucky to have it and be healthy.


Speak for yourself - not all of us are healthy.



I have a very difficult time with abortion. Last semester, one of my high school students did and one didn't. I've been seeing this for 37 years. I want more pre-natal support by prospective adopting families.

I don't think adoption is a good option, so I don't support it. However, what others do is their business. I would never try to take that choice away from them.
 
I also find it very interesting that a fetus has no awareness, cannot feel pain and has no brain waves until about or after 26 weeks gestation. Before 26 weeks gestation the EEG of a fetus is as flat as a brain dead person.

According to the following article:




Read more:

The Consciousness Meter: Sure You Want That? - Wired Science



The primitive, sub-cortical brain comes into being at five weeks as an organised unit (even more primitive neuronal cells exist before that at three - four weeks gestation but are not organised in a manner recognisable as a brain). Cerebral hemispheres differentiate at seven weeks (14) and as previously noted, EEG activity has been demonstrated at eight weeks.

http://jme.bmj.com/content/11/4/198.full.pdf


There are reasons why a fetal EEG and a born EEG cannot be considered the same.

First, fetal EEG patterns and fetal behaviour demonstrate that sleep-like states of unconsciousness are continuously present throughout the last half of pregnancy (Mellor et al., 2005). This is because the continuous undifferentiated EEG patterns, which exhibit a mixture of REM-non-REM features, and the differentiated and alternating REM-non-REM patterns, which appear later and are indistinguishable from those seen during postnatal sleep, are all incompatible with consciousness. In addition, during labour there is a shift in the balance between the REM and non-REM states of unconsciousness such that the deeper non-REM state predominates (Mellor and Diesch, 2006).

Second, at least eight fetal, placental and uterine factors with well-demonstrated inhibitory effects on the fetal EEG apparently operate throughout the last half of pregnancy (Mellor and Gregory, 2003; Mellor et al., 2005), as summarised below... It is apparent, therefore, that mature fetal cerebrocortical function occurs in an inhibitory physiological environment which is unique to prenatal life.

Third, the neurologically mature fetus is not arousable from non-REM or REM sleep-like states to conscious wakefulness by potentially noxious interventions such as induced hypercapnia (high carbon dioxide), sounds loud enough to cause intense auditory pain and surgery-induced tissue damage (Mellor et al., 2005). This contrasts strikingly with the situation after birth where these potent stimuli do arouse the sleeping young to conscious wakefulness. This prenatal non-responsiveness to potentially noxious stimulation is a further indication of the unique inhibitory functional environment of the fetal brain. It also suggests that expulsion from the uterus at birth would lead to a marked reduction in overall neuroinhibitory influences on the brain. Indeed, this appears to be the case, because immediately after birth the major neuroinhibitors are substantially withdrawn and are replaced by a range of potent neuroactivators that support the onset of conscious awareness (Mellor and Diesch, 2006, 2007).

http://altweb.jhsph.edu/wc6/paper79.pdf


Clearly, we must consider the "the unique inhibitory functional environment of the fetal brain" when evaluating EEG and responsivenes.
 
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http://jme.bmj.com/content/11/4/198.full.pdf

There are reasons why a fetal EEG and a born EEG cannot be considered the same.

http://altweb.jhsph.edu/wc6/paper79.pdf

Clearly, we must consider the "the unique inhibitory functional environment of the fetal brain" when evaluating EEG and responsivenes.

In summary, a healthy adult brain in deep sleep, doused in "at least eight fetal, placental and uterine factors with well-demonstrated inhibitory effects" that are withdrawn at birth and without "a range of potent neuroactivators" that are introduced at birth... would appear equally brain-dead.
 
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Once again, please do read for comprehension. Your reply was not relevant to my post.

Of course it is. We aren't talking about the adjective human, we never were. He was claiming that a human arm is a human.
 
Of course it is. We aren't talking about the adjective human, we never were. He was claiming that a human arm is a human.

actually through out the whole conversation there was claims made from one person that a ZEF isnt human(adj) also then there wwere other statements made that a ZEF is human(adj) but isnt factually a human(noun) being

these posts are still there :shrug:
 
Of course it is. We aren't talking about the adjective human, we never were. He was claiming that a human arm is a human.

per the thread history this is factually false
 
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