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Pro-Lifers and Genocide

I can't respond to the meat of your post because the post of mine you quoted was written specifically for C Foster, in a spicific context, leading to a spicific end.

In general, imo it is perfectly acceptable for you to impose a regulation upon me. In context this means that it is perfectly acceptable for you to notify the mod team in the event I brake forum rule 7. See posts 12-15 on.

haha whoops, ignore the quote, i hit the wrong button before I posted that.... sorry. The main point is what right do you have to decide whether a human child lives or dies, my point being that no more than I should have over you. If you re-read it you'll see my connections
 
[edit] deleted the quote

so.... what you're saying is that if I hypothetically wanted to kill you, I could? i wouldn't have to worry about whether or not you wanted to live? Technically I can't be sure whether or not you are alive, even though I can terminate you, I can't be sure what I am terminating. All I have to go off of is what others say about your "life". So, can I kill you?

NOTE THE ABOVE IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL

Normally I agree with you jerry, but abortion gets my dander up

You're just a kid, what the sh!t do you know?
And what the sh!t makes you think your opinion on the issue matters?
Are you even old enough to vote?
 
You're just a kid, what the sh!t do you know?
And what the sh!t makes you think your opinion on the issue matters?
Are you even old enough to vote?

I may be a kid, I might not even be old enough to vote, but obviously I know way more about this subject than you do, otherwise I would be insulting you personally and not making points relevant to the issue.

That aside, do you have anything useful to contribute or are you just going to soak up bandwidth making fun of my age?
 
You're just a kid, what the sh!t do you know?
And what the sh!t makes you think your opinion on the issue matters?
Are you even old enough to vote?

Now now, 1069, you wouldn't tolerate that argument if it were used to shut down a 16 y/o pro choicer.

If wisdom comes with age then please start setting an example.
 
I may be a kid, I might not even be old enough to vote, but obviously I know way more about this subject than you do, otherwise I would be insulting you personally and not making points relevant to the issue.

That aside, do you have anything useful to contribute or are you just going to soak up bandwidth making fun of my age?

If you had two brain cells to rub together, you'd know that you're the one wasting both bandwidth and your life with this tedious whining.
Roe is inviolate. Abortion will never be illegal.
Read my lips: NEVER.
 
If you had two brain cells to rub together, you'd know that you're the one wasting both bandwidth and your life with this tedious whining.
Roe is inviolate. Abortion will never be illegal.
Read my lips: NEVER.

do I look like I am changing policies here? I can't even vote! I am debating, same as you should be

and au contrair, Partial Birth Abortions may be on their way out!

Furthermore, in comments after the abortion, "Jane Roe" expressed nothing but regret.

Even Furthermore, answer the damn question, what separates you from an unborn child? the fact that you can talk and tell people what is going on seems to be the only one.

The inconvenience of women is not something that bothers my conscience.... Is the slaughter of innocents something that bothers yours? If not, I'm not the one wasting my life
 
Furthermore, in comments after the abortion, "Jane Roe" expressed nothing but regret.

"The" abortion?
What abortion would that be, I wonder?
You do realize that Norma McCorvey aka "Jane Roe" never had an abortion, right?
I mean... right? :confused:

Apparently, you don't realize that.

May I ask- in light of this astounding, this spectacular, this phenomenal, flabbergasting ignorance- what makes you think you're qualified to even open your mouth and speak on such a monumental issue?
 
"The" abortion?
What abortion would that be, I wonder?
You do realize that Norma McCorvey aka "Jane Roe" never had an abortion, right?
I mean... right? :confused:

Apparently, you don't realize that.

May I ask- in light of this astounding, this spectacular, this phenomenal, flabbergasting ignorance- what makes you think you're qualified to even open your mouth and speak on such a monumental issue?

o that's right, i remembered it was something :doh but its not like it helps your case any

The poster girl for abortion never had one... makes you wonder

What i was referring to was the number of women who regret an abortion after having one

and on top of all this there really is no need for you to get so bent out of shape!

and on top of that what makes you so much better than me? just because you're older? sorry, I think the fact that i am keeping my cool despite the fact that I am younger shows who the bigger man is
 
I think the fact that i am keeping my cool despite the fact that I am younger shows who the bigger man is

There is no "bigger man".
You're a boy, I'm a woman.
I suppose, if you insist upon such a competition, I'll concede that you are probably a closer approximation of a "man" than I am... but I hardly think that alone entitles you to open your mouth and spew torrents of smugly ignorant and erroneous ordure all over this forum, do you?
 
There is no "bigger man".
You're a boy, I'm a woman.
I suppose, if you insist upon such a competition, I'll concede that you are probably a closer approximation of a "man" than I am... but I hardly think that alone entitles you to open your mouth and spew torrents of smugly ignorant and erroneous ordure all over this forum, do you?

first of all, it's an expression, but you're smart enough to figure that out aren't you? Torrents would hardly be the word, sorry I messed up once. Smug? Just because I remain calm when being personally insulted doesn't make me smug

If you wish to continue to debate me with the topic at hand I would be more than happy to continue, however if you are going to simply sit there and spit personal insults at me then I think we are done here
 
Moderator's Warning:
1069 and PolySciGuy...stop the personal attacks or consequences will ensue.
 
Originally Posted by FutureIncoming
This will also lead to faster depletion-of-resources, and increase the probability of a Malthusian Castrophe happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.
Problem solved.

Because people get smarter ("less-dense") new solutions to problems of resource shortages will be employed to deal with larger populations.
 
and au contrair, Partial Birth Abortions may be on their way out!

PBA MAY be on its way out due to public hysteria. The fact is that criminalizing one PROCEDURE will not save a SINGLE baby's life. Doctors will utilize another procedure, called hysterotomy, when necessary, but it may be more dangerous for the pregnant woman.

D&X procedure (a.k.a.Partial Birth Abortion) - All sides

"A committee of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) thoroughly studied D&X procedures in 1996. They reported: "A select panel convened by ACOG could identify no circumstances under which this procedure...would be the only option to save the life or preserve the health of the woman." They also determined that "an intact D&X, however, may be the best or most appropriate procedure in a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve the health of a woman, and only the doctor, in consultation with the patient, based upon the woman's particular circumstances can make this decision." Their statement was approved by the ACOG executive board on 1997-JAN-12. 3"



The inconvenience of women is not something that bothers my conscience....

Of course, the "inconvenience" of women doesn't bother you, you know NOTHING about it.

THE EFFECTS OF PREGNANCY - complications of pregnancy

"World's Top Five Causes Of Disease Burden In Young People And Adults Ages 15-44
Female: 1. Maternity 2. Sexually Transmitted Diseases 3. Tuberculosis 4. HIV Infection 5. Depression
Male: 1. HIV Infection 2. Tuberculosis 3. Motor Vehicle Injury 4. Homicide And Violence 5. War"

"All pregnant women, by virtue of their pregnant status,
face some level of maternal risk. Data suggest that around
40% of all pregnant women have some complication.
About 15% ... [have complications] that are potentially life-threatening."
 
Here you imply that you would impose restrictive regulation or a ban on abortion:



...is that not so, would you not impose any such restriction or ban?

No, C foster has voiced an opinion, nothing has been imposed, learn a very important difference.
 
You're just a kid, what the sh!t do you know?
And what the sh!t makes you think your opinion on the issue matters?
Are you even old enough to vote?

...May I ask- in light of this astounding, this spectacular, this phenomenal, flabbergasting ignorance- what makes you think you're qualified to even open your mouth and speak on such a monumental issue?


... but I hardly think that alone entitles you to open your mouth and spew torrents of smugly ignorant and erroneous ordure all over this forum, do you?
You suck. You're just baiting and trying to flame up a heated debate. How pitiful are you that the "boy" is more mature and rational that you the grown "woman?" If the mods aren't going to call you it--I will. LOSER.:spank:
 
PBA MAY be on its way out due to public hysteria. The fact is that criminalizing one PROCEDURE will not save a SINGLE baby's life. Doctors will utilize another procedure, called hysterotomy, when necessary, but it may be more dangerous for the pregnant woman.

D&X procedure (a.k.a.Partial Birth Abortion) - All sides

"A committee of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) thoroughly studied D&X procedures in 1996. They reported: "A select panel convened by ACOG could identify no circumstances under which this procedure...would be the only option to save the life or preserve the health of the woman." They also determined that "an intact D&X, however, may be the best or most appropriate procedure in a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve the health of a woman, and only the doctor, in consultation with the patient, based upon the woman's particular circumstances can make this decision." Their statement was approved by the ACOG executive board on 1997-JAN-12. 3"





Of course, the "inconvenience" of women doesn't bother you, you know NOTHING about it.

THE EFFECTS OF PREGNANCY - complications of pregnancy

"World's Top Five Causes Of Disease Burden In Young People And Adults Ages 15-44
Female: 1. Maternity 2. Sexually Transmitted Diseases 3. Tuberculosis 4. HIV Infection 5. Depression
Male: 1. HIV Infection 2. Tuberculosis 3. Motor Vehicle Injury 4. Homicide And Violence 5. War"

"All pregnant women, by virtue of their pregnant status,
face some level of maternal risk. Data suggest that around
40% of all pregnant women have some complication.
About 15% ... [have complications] that are potentially life-threatening."


hold on...

"All pregnant women, by virtue of their pregnant status,
face some level of maternal risk. Data suggest that around
40% of all pregnant women have some complication.
About 15% ... [have complications] that are potentially life-threatening."

40% have complications? Define complications for me, because I would consider "complications" in pregnancy normal

and 15% (is that 15% of those 40%?) have potentially life threatening conditions?

I would argue that almost everything we do is potentially life threatening by at least 15%x40% (06%)


Oh BTW, the major cause of illness in women 15-44 is maternity?

Well One of the major causes of death to all children ages -9mo. to 0 is ABORTION!

We already have laws against causing the death of a WANTED unborn child, do we just choose not to protect the UNWANTED ones?

I realize that abortion will never be gone BUT WHY CAN'T PEOPLE AGREE WITH NO PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION!!!!!

By the 2nd trimester the fetus exhibits all signs normally associated to life! Ending that life is the same as ending anyone else's life!

Answer me this is, it so hard to go to an abortion clinic earlier?

Take a look at this link. That is wrong, there is nothing morally ok with PBA
 
40% have complications? Define complications for me, because I would consider "complications" in pregnancy normal
and 15% (is that 15% of those 40%?) have potentially life threatewomen carrying the scars of pregnancy with the percentages of men who carry the scars of battle.)

By definition, complications are NOT NORMAL.

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
heartburn and indigestion
constipation
weight gain
dizziness and light-headedness
bloating, swelling, fluid retention
hemmorhoids
abdominal cramps
yeast infections
congested, bloody nose
acne and mild skin disorders
skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
mild to severe backache and strain
increased headaches
difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
increased urination and incontinence
bleeding gums
pica
breast pain and discharge
swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
inability to take regular medications
shortness of breath
higher blood pressure
hair loss
tendency to anemia
curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and
are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
extreme pain on delivery
hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
stretch marks (worse in younger women)
loose skin
permanent weight gain or redistribution
abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
changes to breasts
varicose veins
scarring from episiotomy or c-section
other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)

Occasional complications and side effects:
hyperemesis gravidarum
temporary and permanent injury to back
severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies)
dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
gestational diabetes
placenta previa
anemia (which can be life-threatening)
thrombocytopenic purpura
severe cramping
embolism (blood clots)
medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
hormonal imbalance
ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
hemorrhage and
numerous other complications of delivery
refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
severe post-partum depression and psychosis
research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
peripartum cardiomyopathy
cardiopulmonary arrest
magnesium toxicity
severe hypoxemia/acidosis
massive embolism
increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
malignant arrhythmia
circulatory collapse
placental abruption
obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:
future infertility
permanent disability
death.

Life threatning conditions?
I would argue that almost everything we do is potentially life threatening by at least 15%x40% (06%)

Pregnancy is life threatening to 15% of 100% of pregnant women.

World* Health Day 1998 : Every Pregnancy Faces Risk




Oh BTW, the major cause of illness in women 15-44 is maternity?
Well One of the major causes of death to all children ages -9mo. to 0 is ABORTION!
We already have laws against causing the death of a WANTED unborn child, do we just choose not to protect the UNWANTED ones?
I realize that abortion will never be gone BUT WHY CAN'T PEOPLE AGREE WITH NO PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION!!!!!
By the 2nd trimester the fetus exhibits all signs normally associated to life! Ending that life is the same as ending anyone else's life!
Answer me this is, it so hard to go to an abortion clinic earlier?
Take a look at this link. That is wrong, there is nothing morally ok with PBA

Women don't wait until late-term and then decide to have an abortion on a whim. Late-term abortions are medically necessary. BTW, you like pictures? Be sure to check out the pictures at the bottom of the link.

GenderGappers: PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION

"LATE TERM ABORTIONS

...are against the law in every state, except as necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.

Given that a woman's life or health is at stake, why should a her abdomen and uterus have to be sliced open in major surgery in order to remove the fetus?

Why should a woman be forced to undergo disfiguring major surgery if that's not necessary to extract a fetus that is either already dead or not going to survive anyway?

It makes no sense at all.
It makes no sense, that is, unless an ulterior concurrent political agenda is to mutilate the mother, and subject her to unnecessary additional risk.
The fact is: there is no such thing as a "partial birth abortion!"
The medical terminology (euphemism if you like, but not for "birth") is called Dilation and Extraction. Healthy, viable fetuses that don't put their mother's life and health at risk aren't being killed for frivolous political or financial reasons, and women aren't subjecting themselves to this relatively expensive and physically difficult procedure because they were too lazy to get an abortion earlier in their pregnancy!
Here's is one woman's story about her late-term abortion: My Late-Term Abortion - The Boston Globe

Below are a few reasons for the procedure (and do keep them in mind when you view those cute anti-abortion posters of little babies and babies-to-be):"
 
Excuse the redundancy, and I accept your source btw, but to be clear you are making the case that pregnancy endangers a woman's life in 15%-100% of pregnancies?

Some possibly relevant studies:

Pregnancy-associated deaths: a 15-year retrospective study and overall review of maternal pathophysiology.

Pregnancy-related mortality surveillance--United States, 1991--1999.

And, perhaps most significantly, Underreporting of pregnancy-related mortality in the United States and Europe.

The latter study describes the limitations of maternal mortality statistics based on International Classification of Diseases cause-of-death codes alone, and why this means that current maternal mortality statistics from developed nations, including our own, do not accurately reflect the true situation.
 
Excuse the redundancy, and I accept your source btw, but to be clear you are making the case that pregnancy endangers a woman's life in 15%-100% of pregnancies?



This was a reply to this:

Originally Posted by PolySciGuy
40% have complications? Define complications for me, because I would consider "complications" in pregnancy normal
and 15% (is that 15% of those 40%?) have potentially life threatewomen carrying the scars of pregnancy with the percentages of men who carry the scars of battle.)


Pregnancy endangers a woman's life 15% of the time.
 
Let me ask this then, would having the abortion greatly increase the woman's chances of survival? Because if so, then I would be fine with abortion when it saves the life of the woman.
 
PolySciGuy said:
The main point is what right do you have to decide whether a human child lives or dies, my point being that no more than I should have over you.
And an alternate main point is that you need to be certain that your assumptions are valid, before you use them to reach conclusions. For example:
PolySciGuy said:
if I hypothetically wanted to kill you, I could? i wouldn't have to worry about whether or not you wanted to live?
You are assuming that what you write, with respect to some other person posting messages here, applies equally to unborn humans. But since when does an unborn human claim that it wants to live? Biologically, it is a purely animal organism, a stimulus/response bio-robot that acts only in accordance with its genetic programming. It does not have either free will or ability to decide anything. Consider that when you swat a mosquito, do you worry about whether or not it wants to live? Well then, why is the unborn human bio-robot more special or more deserving of extra consideration than the mosquito bio-robot? Please ensure that there is no trace of worthless prejudice in your answer!

Getting back to what you wrote in #26, you exhibit such prejudice by referring to an unborn human as a "human child" when normally an unborn human is called a "fetus" (which, heh, is Latin for "child" --but which word also applies to an unborn dog or an unborn pig or an unborn rat...why is the unborn human more special than those others?).

The answer to your question in #26 comes from first realizing that an unborn human is only an animal, and is nothing more than purely an animal. We who have free will and power over animals have claimed for millenia to have rights to use that power, to decide which animals should live and which should die, from breeding sheep to stepping on cockroaches. Meanwhile, we have also fought wars for millenia, trying to ensure that human persons are granted respect and reasonable equality. That's why the average person doesn't have any life-or-death rights over some other average person. Nevertheless, why should we treat humans that-are-measurably/provably-pure-animals any differently than actual ordinary animals? Prejudice? Think again!
 
Let me ask this then, would having the abortion greatly increase the woman's chances of survival? Because if so, then I would be fine with abortion when it saves the life of the woman.

Early abortion is always safer than childbirth.



In the Know: Questions About Pregnancy, Contraception and Abortion

"The risk of death associated with abortion in the United States is less than 0.6 per 100,000 procedures, which is less than one-tenth as large as the risk associated with childbirth."
 
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