Pro-Life Video - The Angel of Death

[mac]

And the women isn't going to see it as an innocent life if she wants an abortion and is denied it. She's going to get it out of her one way or another, your putting the women in danger with a law like this, and it will only cause more deaths from illegal abortions, and suicides, not more babies being born. It's despicable for a woman to be forced to carry around that baby for 9 months, and have her body be forced to do something she had absolutely no control over.

Kinda like how the Nazi's felt about the Jews...or the Ottoman's about the Armenians........

 

[mac]

I really don't get where you're going with this Mac. Of course the states that didn't exist yet weren't outlawing abortion. The point I was trying to make is that the states that DID exist weren't outlawing it either. No one in America was until the 1820s.

So? What does that prove to you? What relevance has it? How old was our country when these laws began coming about? What other law is relevant simply based on the date of its' enactment?

 

[OKgrannie]

Kinda like how the Nazi's felt about the Jews...or the Ottoman's about the Armenians........

No, I don't think there's any comparison to some sort of racial hatred. You seem to profoundly lack an understanding of pregnancy and the effects on the woman.

 

[molten_dragon]

So? What does that prove to you? What relevance has it? How old was our country when these laws began coming about? What other law is relevant simply based on the date of its' enactment?

I only pointed it out because the video was talking about how america started to go downhill in 1967 when abortion was legalized in Colorado. I was pointing out that if their sole criteria for america going downhill was the legalization of abortion, that actually happened long before 1967. That's the only point I was trying to make.

 

[mac]

No, I don't think there's any comparison to some sort of racial hatred. You seem to profoundly lack an understanding of pregnancy and the effects on the woman.

Hatred is hatred...how one individual can judge the worth of another's existence is the root issue that you don't seem to understand.

 

[bowerbird]

Hatred is hatred...how one individual can judge the worth of another's existence is the root issue that you don't seem to understand.

They are not "judging" - it is a matter of perception. They simply do not perceive the early stages of development as "human"

 

[mac]

They are not "judging" - it is a matter of perception. They simply do not perceive the early stages of development as "human"

There is no difference, either someone is seen as human or they're not.

 

[OKgrannie]

Hatred is hatred...how one individual can judge the worth of another's existence is the root issue that you don't seem to understand.

You're confused. Abortion is not a matter of hatred on the part of a woman. Abortion is a defensive measure, either to save her physical life or health, or to save her way of life. A woman is the one individual who can judge whether it is worth her sacifice to give existence to another.

 

[mac]

You're confused. Abortion is not a matter of hatred on the part of a woman. Abortion is a defensive measure, either to save her physical life or health, or to save her way of life. A woman is the one individual who can judge whether it is worth her sacifice to give existence to another.

No, you are confused. The point is not the abortion itself, but your implication that the mother sees the child as less than human. The issue is not the action or even the motive. It is the fundamental beliefs that enable both the motive and the action,

 

[OKgrannie]

No, you are confused. The point is not the abortion itself, but your implication that the mother sees the child as less than human. The issue is not the action or even the motive. It is the fundamental beliefs that enable both the motive and the action,

A woman doesn't see the zef as anything other than "human" (adjective). Women know that the zef COULD develop into A child and A human being. You can't change what it is by renaming it. And women know what it is.

 

[mac]

A woman doesn't see the zef as anything other than "human" (adjective). Women know that the zef COULD develop into A child and A human being. You can't change what it is by renaming it. And women know what it is.

You speak as if you are speaking for every woman, when you certainly are not. It's plainly evident, and very easy to support, to say that not all women view the unborn child, regardless of stage of development as you indicate.

 

[OKgrannie]

You speak as if you are speaking for every woman, when you certainly are not. It's plainly evident, and very easy to support, to say that not all women view the unborn child, regardless of stage of development as you indicate.

You are right. A woman who really wants a baby is envisioning the zef as a warm cuddly baby from the very beginning. The fact that her vision is not accurate doesn't matter. The thing is that you can't force YOUR vision of the zef upon a woman.

 

[mac]

You are right. A woman who really wants a baby is envisioning the zef as a warm cuddly baby from the very beginning. The fact that her vision is not accurate doesn't matter. The thing is that you can't force YOUR vision of the zef upon a woman.

Right, and the Nazi's killed Jews because they saw them as less than human. Obviously, not every human sees Jews as less than human, if they did, who would give a crap about the holocaust? Fortunately, those that see the unborn child as less than human are in the minority as evidenced by polling data and the fact that not 50% of pregnancies end in abortion.

 

[OKgrannie]

Right, and the Nazi's killed Jews because they saw them as less than human. Obviously, not every human sees Jews as less than human, if they did, who would give a crap about the holocaust? Fortunately, those that see the unborn child as less than human are in the minority as evidenced by polling data and the fact that not 50% of pregnancies end in abortion.

It wasn't so much that they saw Jews as less than human, but they were a convenient scapegoat to blame for Germany's financial woes and to blame for the loss of the World War I. IAC, Jews and zefs have little in common. It also doesn't matter WHAT the zef is, what matters is WHERE it is.

 

[mac]

It wasn't so much that they saw Jews as less than human, but they were a convenient scapegoat to blame for Germany's financial woes and to blame for the loss of the World War I. IAC, Jews and zefs have little in common. It also doesn't matter WHAT the zef is, what matters is WHERE it is.

It was a convenient scapegoat for Hitler who was able to convince the rest of Germany that Jews were less than human. Otherwise, he couldn't have "accomplished" what he did. Belief is a powerful thing.

 

[prometeus]

It was a convenient scapegoat for Hitler who was able to convince the rest of Germany that Jews were less than human. Otherwise, he couldn't have "accomplished" what he did. Belief is a powerful thing.

Can you give any reference or support to that assertion?

 

[cpwill]

You're confused. Abortion is not a matter of hatred on the part of a woman. Abortion is a defensive measure, either to save her physical life or health, or to save her way of life.

or her abiilty to go out on a saturday night, or her ability not to have to be weighed down with kids, or her ability to avoid responsibility to the life she has helped create, so on and so forth.

just like the girls who trash babies in dumpsters, or women who drown them in cars; they just want to have fun; and those evil kids have no right to take that from them, eh?

A woman is the one individual who can judge whether it is worth her sacifice to give existence to another.

once you have sex (with or without protection, as you well note), that decision is already made. having made it, you don't get to take it back.



as for the ad.... i'm about as strongly pro-life as you can get, and even I think that thing was nuts.

 

[cpwill]

You are right. A woman who really wants a baby is envisioning the zef as a warm cuddly baby from the very beginning. The fact that her vision is not accurate doesn't matter. The thing is that you can't force YOUR vision of the zef upon a woman.

i know plenty of women who are pro-life; i think here you are trying to cram people into boxes into which they do not fit.

 

[cpwill]

Right, and the Nazi's killed Jews because they saw them as less than human. Obviously, not every human sees Jews as less than human, if they did, who would give a crap about the holocaust? Fortunately, those that see the unborn child as less than human are in the minority as evidenced by polling data and the fact that not 50% of pregnancies end in abortion.

it's a necessary coping mechanism; faced with what they are doing, every culture of death, be it Nazi's running gas chambers, Japanese slaughters of Chinese, or our own Abortion lobby has felt it necessary to dehumanize their victims. in particular there is some excellent material on the military application of this in Col Grossmans' book "On Killing".

 

[cpwill]

Two questions that I have yet to have answered by an pro=lifer

a) how do you define the threat to the mother?

damn near guarantee that the mother will die due to the pregnancy.

B) How far will you go to protect the "personhood" of the foetus? Will you be say, restricting women from taking "any substance that may be harmful"?

that's a good question that needs to be explored. if a pregnant woman, for example, binge drinks and her child is irreparably harmed by it, is the woman culpable for damages, or for child abuse?

well, you tell me. if i give alcohol to a bunch of 12 year olds, am i going to be in trouble?

 

[kerussll]

Hahaha "men in black robes plotted.." I actually laughed really hard at that point.

 

[Your Star]

Well this was soundly defeated