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Pro-Life Video - The Angel of Death

Josie

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MaggieD

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What a find, Mellie. Thank you for posting this up. It's a very powerful video...it will be interesting to see what a popular vote in Colorado has to say about it.
 

Josie

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Hopefully people will vote for liberty, and vote against this.

Also, this video is nothing more than conspiracy theory fodder, and won't foster any real debate.
 
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Orion

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The second I saw the words "abortion industry", I ceased to care. There is no such thing as an abortion industry; there are OBGYNs who are trained in abortion procedures, and they are medical professionals. If they are an industry, then so are all doctors who practice medicine. :shrug:
 

molten_dragon

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That believe what?

That the ‘decline of america’ began in 1967 with the legalization of abortion in colorado, discounting of course the fact that laws banning abortion didn’t start to come into being until the 1820s, and it wasn’t mostly outlawed until around 1900

That the supreme court that handed down the Roe vs. Wade decision ‘plotted’ like members of a conspiracy because they ‘hated traditional american values, especially life and liberty’.

That there is some kind of shadowy ‘abortion industry’ that murders helpless babies just so they can line their pockets.

That said industry ‘buys anyone who stands in their way’.

That Obama is the ‘Angel of Death’

That Obama is spending money specifically to fund abortions overseas.

That Obama believes all conservatives are ‘domestic extremists’

That Obama is a communist

That Obamacare contains ‘massive abortion funding’

That the pro-life position is the only clear and reasonable choice and that anyone who doesn’t agree with it is a pathological murderer.

That Obama is a psychotic criminal.

I'm not saying that the basic message that they are presenting (vote for an amendment that would make all ZEFs legal persons) is nuts (I disagree with it, but it's not crazy). It's just that the way they are presenting it makes it almost impossible to take them seriously.
 

mac

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While I applaud the effort to get 62 passed, I don't think this video is a fair representation of reality.
 

mac

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That the ‘decline of america’ began in 1967 with the legalization of abortion in colorado, discounting of course the fact that laws banning abortion didn’t start to come into being until the 1820s, and it wasn’t mostly outlawed until around 1900.

Irrelevant, most of our states where not states before 1820.
 

molten_dragon

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Irrelevant, most of our states where not states before 1820.

What does that have to do with anything?

The video makes the point that the 'decline of america' began in 1967 when colorado legalized abortion.

Assuming that the legalization of abortion is the primary factor contributing to the 'decline of america' as the video infers, then that didn't happen in 1967. It happened in 1787, when america first became an independent country, because abortion was legal then.
 

mac

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What does that have to do with anything?

The statement that most states didn't outlaw abortion prior to 1820 is disingenuous since most states didn't exist before 1820. However, I don't agree with the decline of America assumption this video makes anymore than you do.
 

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Don't think this amendment will bring much liberty to citizens, as it claims. Better read carefully.

| Alarming Amendment: Fundamentalists Use `Personhood' Proposal To Invade America's Bedrooms

The amendment would declare that, for legal purposes, personhood is defined as the "beginning of the biological development of that human being." Such a sweeping definition of personhood would not only ban all abortions (even in cases of rape, incest and threats to the mother's life), it would also make certain forms of birth control, stem-cell research and even some fertility treatments illegal.
 

digsbe

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I'm sure abortion will still be legal for the life of the mother. However abortion in the case of rape should be illegal under the law. I support prop 62.
 

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I'm sure abortion will still be legal for the life of the mother. However abortion in the case of rape should be illegal under the law. I support prop 62.

What? You think abortion in case of rape should be illegal? Why?
 

digsbe

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What? You think abortion in case of rape should be illegal? Why?

Because it's still killing an innocent child. It's not the fetus' fault that it was conceived through rape. I believe abortion is murder, and that includes killing those who were conceived through rape.
 

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Because it's still killing an innocent child. It's not the fetus' fault that it was conceived through rape. I believe abortion is murder, and that includes killing those who were conceived through rape.

So you support a women having to be reminded of one of the worst moments of her life for atleast 9 months, and possible the rest of her life, or the child's life? It wasn't the woman's fault she got pregnant, and should have the right to terminate the pregnancy.
 

digsbe

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So you support a women having to be reminded of one of the worst moments of her life for atleast 9 months, and possible the rest of her life, or the child's life? It wasn't the woman's fault she got pregnant, and should have the right to terminate the pregnancy.

Emotional tragedy doesn't merit killing another person who is innocent. I could easily make the argument that a woman could be traumatized by the abortion and living with the fact everyday that she has killed an innocent life. It's not the woman's fault that she got pregnant, but it's not also the fetus' fault that it was conceived. I support justice for the mother and the child. The rapist is the one who did wrong and should be punished severely, we shouldn't punish the innocent life that was conceived through an atrocity. I don't think she should have the right to terminate her pregnancy because terminating it means killing an innocent life.
 

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Emotional tragedy doesn't merit killing another person who is innocent. I could easily make the argument that a woman could be traumatized by the abortion and living with the fact everyday that she has killed an innocent life. It's not the woman's fault that she got pregnant, but it's not also the fetus' fault that it was conceived. I support justice for the mother and the child. The rapist is the one who did wrong and should be punished severely, we shouldn't punish the innocent life that was conceived through an atrocity. I don't think she should have the right to terminate her pregnancy because terminating it means killing an innocent life.

And the women isn't going to see it as an innocent life if she wants an abortion and is denied it. She's going to get it out of her one way or another, your putting the women in danger with a law like this, and it will only cause more deaths from illegal abortions, and suicides, not more babies being born. It's despicable for a woman to be forced to carry around that baby for 9 months, and have her body be forced to do something she had absolutely no control over.
 

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What a find, Mellie. Thank you for posting this up. It's a very powerful video...it will be interesting to see what a popular vote in Colorado has to say about it.

We had the same amendment on the ballot last time, it was soundly defeated. This one will also be soundly defeated. It's a short sighted law that won't do anything. The SCOTUS ruled on it and at this point we have 2 options 1) Accept it 2) Revolt. If you're not willing to revolt over the issue, then you have to accept that the SCOTUS ruled on it already and abide by its decision.
 

digsbe

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And the women isn't going to see it as an innocent life if she wants an abortion and is denied it. She's going to get it out of her one way or another, your putting the women in danger with a law like this, and it will only cause more deaths from illegal abortions, and suicides, not more babies being born. It's despicable for a woman to be forced to carry around that baby for 9 months, and have her body be forced to do something she had absolutely no control over.

She is wrong if she doesn't see it as an innocent life. I believe in absolute morals and want my belief reflected in law. She shouldn't have the right to tell another living human that it has no right to life and that she can legally have an inhumane procedure preformed in it in order to kill it. What if a racist southern farmer thought blacks in Africa were savages and not "people"? Does he have the right to go to Africa and buy a slave from one of the tribes there? What if he doesn't see the slave as a person? So we should legalize it because the woman may seek to harm herself in the process of murdering another person? In all instances the innocent unborn human is put in mortal danger regardless of an illegal or legal abortion. I think it's despicable for a woman to inhumanely chose to kill another person that must take temporary residence within her womb for 9 months just like every other human being. I think it's wrong to force an unborn child to die because the mother doesn't value it and has not assign it a status worthy of living its own life. Abortion affects 2 people, the mother and the unborn human. In all instances, it is fatal for the unborn human and a human rights atrocity.
 

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I'm sure abortion will still be legal for the life of the mother. However abortion in the case of rape should be illegal under the law. I support prop 62.

Two questions that I have yet to have answered by an pro=lifer

a) how do you define the threat to the mother?

and

B) How far will you go to protect the "personhood" of the foetus? Will you be say, restricting women from taking "any substance that may be harmful"?

If you want any foreshadowing of how this will work out see me. Abortion is illegal in most states here and our rates are not much different to where it is legal
 

molten_dragon

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The statement that most states didn't outlaw abortion prior to 1820 is disingenuous since most states didn't exist before 1820.

Go back and read what I posted. I never said anything about states outlawing abortion. I said that there were no laws against abortion until the 1820s and that by about 1900 it was illegal in almost all cases and places.
 

mac

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Go back and read what I posted. I never said anything about states outlawing abortion. I said that there were no laws against abortion until the 1820s and that by about 1900 it was illegal in almost all cases and places.

The laws were state laws....states can't make the laws before they are states....this is a chicken before the egg argument you're making. Overall, when the laws came into being has no relevance to the argument.
 

molten_dragon

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The laws were state laws....states can't make the laws before they are states....this is a chicken before the egg argument you're making. Overall, when the laws came into being has no relevance to the argument.

I really don't get where you're going with this Mac. Of course the states that didn't exist yet weren't outlawing abortion. The point I was trying to make is that the states that DID exist weren't outlawing it either. No one in America was until the 1820s.
 
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