Pro life is not the opposite of pro-choice.

[ChrisIsLeft]

I can assure you, I do not hate women, and I do care about born babies. I am not religious and belong to no religion. I am not pro-life as I believe in capital punishment and in the sometime necessity of war. I believe in choices for lots of things, so I am not anti-choice. What I am against is pre-born baby extermination.

So you merely think you own women.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Except you can never be prosecuted for cheating on your girlfriend.

you can never be prosecuted for having an abortion lol at least not currently, so what's the relevance?

The right to privacy doesn't mean that other people are not allowed to find out about something if you carelessly reveal it.

Correct.

The right to privacy means the government can't legally compel you to reveal this information.

only a half truth...and even if it were true, it still wouldn't be relevant, because the government doesn't NEED to know that you were the one who had the abortion, or that you personally gave them that information for some unknown reason.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Look harder. Anyone that would deny women a safer procedure and ignore their will, deny their right to consent as individuals, doesnt even respect women. Such people value the unborn more than the woman.

I don't think so. That just sounds like you're describing a type of women who don't respect themselves.

 

[Lursa]

I don't think so. That just sounds like you're describing a type of women who don't respect themselves.

If they dont believe there's anything wrong with abortion, esp. since most women use contraception, what does it have to do with 'respecting themselves?'

In America, we strongly protect the rights of the person, and do not remove a right to consent, for example, without due process. Or violate their rights based on our own 'beliefs.' Do you believe in those Const. principles? If so, why the criticism of women that pro-lifers would like to see treated otherwise? It's the pro-lifers that are 'anti-American' and anti-individual rights IMO.

So it's clear that many many pro-life people dont respect the individual rights protected in the Const for women that 'they dont approve of, or oftheir actions' They would take away those women's individual rights *situationally* but not Constitutionally and ignore their right to consent (among others.)

 

[lwf]

you can never be prosecuted for having an abortion lol at least not currently, so what's the relevance?

Because if Roe is overturned, then you will be able to be prosecuted for having an abortion in many states.

 

[DarkWizard12]

If they dont believe there's anything wrong with abortion, esp. since most women use contraception, what does it have to do with 'respecting themselves?'

In America, we strongly protect the rights of the person, and do not remove a right to consent, for example, without due process. Or violate their rights based on our own 'beliefs.' Do you believe in those Const. principles? If so, why the criticism of women that pro-lifers would like to see treated otherwise? It's the pro-lifers that are 'anti-American' and anti-individual rights IMO.

So it's clear that many many pro-life people dont respect the individual rights protected in the Const for women that 'they dont approve of, or oftheir actions' They would take away those women's individual rights *situationally* but not Constitutionally and ignore their right to consent (among others.)

yea, im not sure what your issue is. No one is saying you don't have a right to have sex. You want to take the risks, that's on you lol i ain't got nothing to do with that.

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

I don't think so. That just sounds like you're describing a type of women who don't respect themselves.

Sounds like you think you can judge women

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

yea, im not sure what your issue is. No one is saying you don't have a right to have sex. You want to take the risks, that's on you lol i ain't got nothing to do with that.

The risk? You're an idiot if you think women use abortion as first level contraception

 

[DarkWizard12]

Because if Roe is overturned, then you will be able to be prosecuted for having an abortion in many states.

yes, that may happen in the future, but as of now, that's not the case.

and again, even if it were, privacy has nothing to do with that. Privacy is a defense you use when the government wants to snoop around, it's not an excuse to murder someone lol You don't get murder Carl and tell police "you can't investigate me, i have a right to privacy!" it's nonsensical.

 

[Lursa]

yea, im not sure what your issue is. No one is saying you don't have a right to have sex. You want to take the risks, that's on you lol i ain't got nothing to do with that.

I didnt say you said (or that I said) women shouldnt have sex. I responded directly in my first response to your claims of women and consequences and then also regarding responsibilty. Didnt see a response.

But you did offer an opinion about women not respecting themselves...and I asked why wouldnt they, if they didnt believe abortion was wrong? If they used bc, as most women do, why any lack of respect?

 

[DarkWizard12]

Sounds like you think you can judge women

individuals, sure. Everyone, including yourself, judge every individual we meet constantly. It's called being human.

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

yes, that may happen in the future, but as of now, that's not the case.

and again, even if it were, privacy has nothing to do with that. Privacy is a defense you use when the government wants to snoop around, it's not an excuse to murder someone lol You don't get murder Carl and tell police "you can't investigate me, i have a right to privacy!" it's nonsensical.

Private citizens can sue a woman for an abortion in Texas

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

individuals, sure. Everyone, including yourself, judge every individual we meet constantly. It's called being human.

I don't judge people in terms of their self respect because they like sex. I'm not trash. Sure, if someone said they're a Republican i wonder why they like fascism

 

[Lursa]

yes, that may happen in the future, but as of now, that's not the case.

and again, even if it were, privacy has nothing to do with that. Privacy is a defense you use when the government wants to snoop around, it's not an excuse to murder someone lol You don't get murder Carl and tell police "you can't investigate me, i have a right to privacy!" it's nonsensical.

Well that's a silly oversimplification of 4th Amendment 'privacy' decisions and precedents. Not to mention how odd it is for you to connect it with murder. Abortion is specifically not murder. Previously posted:

You and most people in this thread are using the word 'privacy' too literally.​

​

The court deliberations for the different precedents based on privacy a) were not for the most part decided by the RvW bench. I dont think any were. Most were decades old. And b) were very clear on how they were being applied. It's not about 'hiding' information from others, it's about the right to conduct marriage, contraception, reproduction, medical decisions, etc without intrusion from the govt. That the govt had no right to decide those things for or deny them to individuals.​

​

Those same precedents have been used by federal courts for decades for many issues/decisions.​

 

[Lursa]

Private citizens can sue a woman for an abortion in Texas

No, citizens can sue almost anyone BUT the woman who had an abortion. Mostly it's aimed at abortion providers.

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

No, citizens can sue almost anyone BUT the woman who had an abortion. Mostly it's aimed at abortion providers.

That's not how it was reported but perhaps

 

[DarkWizard12]

I didnt say you said (or that I said) women shouldnt have sex. I responded directly in my first response to your claims of women and consequences and then also regarding responsibilty. Didnt see a response.

But you did offer an opinion about women not respecting themselves...and I asked why wouldnt they, if they didnt believe abortion was wrong? If they used bc, as most women do, why any lack of respect?

Well, you're talking about denying certain procedures as not being respectful, but we're talking about a procedure that's only available to women who took the risks to have sex to begin with. Why would I value that decision as equal to a woman who decided to carry a baby to term and raise it on her own with her family? Imagine if we took all of planned parenthood's money and used it to buy baby formula for all mothers.

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

No, citizens can sue almost anyone BUT the woman who had an abortion. Mostly it's aimed at abortion providers.

That's not how it was reported but perhaps

Well, you're talking about denying certain procedures as not being respectful, but we're talking about a procedure that's only available to women who took the risks to have sex to begin with. Why would I value that decision as equal to a woman who decided to carry a baby to term and raise it on her own with her family? Imagine if we took all of planned parenthood's money and used it to buy baby formula for all mothers.

Imagine being so dense you think all planned parenthood does is provide abortions

 

[Lursa]

Well, you're talking about denying certain procedures as not being respectful, but we're talking about a procedure that's only available to women who took the risks to have sex to begin with.

This was clearly explained in my first post, post 5. Did you read it? Abortion is a painful, expensive.......consequence. Did you feel you or society is also entitled to choose her consequences too?

It seems you believe abortion is wrong. Why would a woman or others feel or lack respect if they see nothing wrong? Birth control fails, we all know that.

Why would I value that decision as equal to a woman who decided to carry a baby to term and raise it on her own with her family? Imagine if we took all of planned parenthood's money and used it to buy baby formula for all mothers.

That's nice. Millions of other Americans dont agree with you and lots of them are women. So in reality you were discussing YOUR lack of respect for such women. Pretty sure that doesnt matter to them when they are making decisions in the best interest of their own lives, health, responsibilities and obligations to others in life. Do you think your opinion, or those that share it, should be allowed to deny women that safer medical procedure? If so, why?

(You already wrote that you supported 'choice' so it seems you just want to continue posting why women who choose 'differently than you approve' shouldnt be respected. Hey, if that's what you need to do...it's your thread )

 

[Doppelgangirl]

One's right ends when it encroaches and/or eliminates another's right.

So pick one. Fetus or woman?

You can’t do both, it’s not possible.

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

So pick one. Fetus or woman?

You can’t do both, it’s not possible.

I think it's a complex mix and we have it right. Early on the woman is paramount. Later on, abortion is only allowed for medical reasons

 

[tosca1]

So pick one. Fetus or woman?

You can’t do both, it’s not possible.

Do you really have to ask that?

Now that she's created another human, it's a whole different ballgame!
Too bad. She should've made her choice BEFORE.................not, AFTER the fact.

 

[Gordy327]

Do you really have to ask that?

Now that she's created another human, it's a whole different ballgame!
Too bad. She should've made her choice BEFORE.................not, AFTER the fact.

She gets to make a choice after too.

 

[Gordy327]

So pick one. Fetus or woman?

You can’t do both, it’s not possible.

Woman! There's really no choice. Except by the woman. All others can stfu about it.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Woman! There's really no choice. Except by the woman. All others can stfu about it.

I'm right because I have a penis.

wrong way to resurrect a thread? lol