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Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432:673:895]

re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Not everyone thinks it's difficult. Not everyone views it as "evil," necessary or otherwise. For some women, it's a very clear and uncomplicated choice.

I think everyone would prefer it were unnecessary. Even if one has no internal conflict about it, it's unpleasant and expensive. It's not how anyone prefers to spend an afternoon, or what might amount to the cost of their rent. That's why the pro-choice crowd also tends to be the crowd trying to increase contraceptive use, and disseminate correct information about how to use it effectively.

But not everyone thinks a woman preserving her bodily integrity is "manslaughter."
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I, personally, don't believe it is manslaughter. I see a gulf of distance between a soon to be being and one who already has several years under their belt.

That still doesn't make it right, or just, or fair.

Neither does slaughtering a pig and consuming it's flesh.

It's just what is.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

jamesrage said:
So if a mother is about 6 months pregnant and she wants to kill her child then she should have that choice?
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At that late stage, an abortion is as painful and dangerous as pregnancy. It's almost unheard of in the US for such to take place.

98.5% take place first trimester. The other 1.5% are to save the life of the mother or because of a severely defective fetus.

Any others taking place are those of women who couldnt...for whatever reason...get one earlier. Maybe they couldnt afford it, maybe their state had eliminated nearly all the facilities where she could get one. In some states, it can be an all day bus ride for woman to get to a facility. SHe might lose her job...as it will take a couple of days. So, desperate, she ends up finding an illegal clinic where such procedures are illegal. It's still very rare. And terrible and only the most desperate of women would go thru it.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Scrabaholic said:
You didn't say 'should be'....you said 'is'.
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Exactly. How often does this happen??!!

It gets even fuzzier when folks talk about their religious belief systems as if they translate to everybody else.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Josie said:
Actually it's not as simple as choosing a paint color or which piano teacher to go to.

The fetus is a member of your family who you're choosing to kill. The fetus is a member of your family who you've decided that you just don't want to deal with. The fetus is a member of your family who you've decided shouldn't have the opportunity to grow up. The fetus is a member of your family whose life is nothing to you. The fetus is a member of your family who you tell yourself is a just a blob of cells to make yourself feel better about killing him/her.

You're snuffing out the life of a member of your family. Why? It's selfish. It's cruel. It's disgusting. And it should be criminal.
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I was not implying that the decision to have an abortion was simple. Don't twist my words.

What's simple is that position I take on abortion. As in, not imposing my beliefs/faiths/ideologies or whatever on others.

You believe it should be criminal. I don't. Neither of us has an abortion.
We both will die one day.
I'm not afraid of what might happen to me after I die. Are you?
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

lizzie said:
You know, I generally tend to agree with you, then you just seem compelled to add in the little religious dig at the end, as an insult to people who oppose abortion based on their religious beliefs. I do support choice, and I do believe abortion is morally wrong. I would never want to have an abortion, but that doesn't mean I expect other people to live up to my standards. Your post would have come across as much more agreeable if you had just left out the insults, because the main point is very well-reasoned. Sometimes, I just can't figure out the opposition to just having a discussion without all the insults and rhetoric from both sides.
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Yeah, I get that, and you're probably right.

However, having watched the last couple-a half dozen threads in this section be started by some talibornagain types and watched the nauseously trite crap that often gets posted I was venting some frustration.

Rather than impede on somebody elses thread, I started my own.

The point being, the vast majority of rabid pro-lifers are also rabidly (to the point of being annoying) religious. They almost expect everyone else to have to bend a knee to their god on this subject, and many of us simply refuse to abide by others religious beliefs. Which is pretty much how the USofA is supposed to be. You are free to believe what you want to believe without forcing others to believe the same crap.

Using the bible and/or religious belief to define law is a very VERY dangerous road to go down.
In some instances it's also sadly pathetic.

So ultimately it's almost impossible to separate religion from this debate. They are interwoven like a spiderweb.

So yeah, I twisted the knife a bit. Perhaps too much. :mrgreen: Perhaps not.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

year2late said:
Interestingly enough, most prochoice women would never choose abortion.

No - is a choice.
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Something that so many on the opposing side fail to honestly recognize.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Josie said:
Actually it's not as simple as choosing a paint color or which piano teacher to go to.

The fetus is a member of your family who you're choosing to kill. The fetus is a member of your family who you've decided that you just don't want to deal with. The fetus is a member of your family who you've decided shouldn't have the opportunity to grow up. The fetus is a member of your family whose life is nothing to you. The fetus is a member of your family who you tell yourself is a just a blob of cells to make yourself feel better about killing him/her.

You're snuffing out the life of a member of your family. Why? It's selfish. It's cruel. It's disgusting. And it should be criminal.
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When did the size and solidity of my family become your business to dictate? You're not raising my children - I am.

Last I looked I married my husband - not you or anyone else. (I have sex with him - not you. We work together to raise our family - you're not involved. When I was bedridden during pregnancy you sure as hell weren't there. When my husband was deployed and it was just me, the baby, and 3 young children for a whole year you **** as hell weren't there.)

Hence the OP's point - and the truth behind being pro-choice. Others should not dictate such SERIOUS things with blanket views when they are not involved in any of it.
 
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re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Josie said:
Why? It's selfish. It's cruel. It's disgusting.
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If pressed to be honest, I'm sure you'll admit that you have no real clue why many chose to abort.
Your comments above are surely way over simplified and rather melodramatic.

There could surely be major health reasons. Both mental and physical. There could be major financial reasons. Bottom line here is each individual MUST make their own choices based on their own personal circumstances, and they alone are the only ones to answer for those choices.
And just as you would not want other people telling you what to do in seriously life-changing or even life-threatening situations, others might prefer that you don't make those choices for them either.

CHOICE allows anyone, with or without religious ideologies and beliefs, to make their own personal decisions without interference from others.
CHOICE does not force one specific religious belief onto all others. Which by the way is against our Constitution. Anti-American as it were.
CHOICE does not allow me to make your medical/health/sex/procreation related decisions for you.
CHOICE means you answer to your god, and everyone else will answer to theirs (assuming there is a god).
CHOICE means a bunch of rich white guys in Washington DC can't tell a female in Nebraska what she can or can't do when she finds out she's pregnant.


Again, what's "simple" in the OP and title is the position on abortion - not the process or circumstances around the actual procedure.

The concept of being "pro-choice" is simple.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

year2late said:
Interestingly enough, most prochoice women would never choose abortion.

No - is a choice.
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Exactly.
Pro choice people support a woman's choice regarding pregnancy.
Which means they also support the right of a woman to carry her pregnancy to full term.

If the government wanted to mandate that all women whose child would be deformed should be aborted I know I would fight for the right for her to have that child even it were going to so malformed that it would only live a few minutes or hours.

The woman should also have the right to give her child up for adoption if she feels that is best for her and her child.

On the other side of the coin if she choses to have an abortion early in the pregnancy that should be her choice also.

We do not know all there is to know about the woman's health , her state of mind, her emotions, her financial status, or her ability to care for a child.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Dragonfly said:
If pressed to be honest, I'm sure you'll admit that you have no real clue why many chose to abort.
Your comments above are surely way over simplified and rather melodramatic.

There could surely be major health reasons. Both mental and physical. There could be major financial reasons. Bottom line here is each individual MUST make their own choices based on their own personal circumstances, and they alone are the only ones to answer for those choices.
And just as you would not want other people telling you what to do in seriously life-changing or even life-threatening situations, others might prefer that you don't make those choices for them either.

CHOICE allows anyone, with or without religious ideologies and beliefs, to make their own personal decisions without interference from others.
CHOICE does not force one specific religious belief onto all others. Which by the way is against our Constitution. Anti-American as it were.
CHOICE does not allow me to make your medical/health/sex/procreation related decisions for you.
CHOICE means you answer to your god, and everyone else will answer to theirs (assuming there is a god).
CHOICE means a bunch of rich white guys in Washington DC can't tell a female in Nebraska what she can or can't do when she finds out she's pregnant.


Again, what's "simple" in the OP and title is the position on abortion - not the process or circumstances around the actual procedure.

The concept of being "pro-choice" is simple.
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Exactly. For me, the pro-choice position can be summed up in just four words: let EACH woman decide. Nothing complicated about that.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Josie said:
Actually it's not as simple as choosing a paint color or which piano teacher to go to.

The fetus is a member of your family who you're choosing to kill. The fetus is a member of your family who you've decided that you just don't want to deal with. The fetus is a member of your family who you've decided shouldn't have the opportunity to grow up. The fetus is a member of your family whose life is nothing to you. The fetus is a member of your family who you tell yourself is a just a blob of cells to make yourself feel better about killing him/her.

You're snuffing out the life of a member of your family. Why? It's selfish. It's cruel. It's disgusting. And it should be criminal.
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Sure it's that simple. EACH woman, myself included, has the right to decide for HERSELF whether or not to continue a pregnancy. If she continues it and gives birth, fine. If she chooses NOT to stay pregnant and give birth, also fine. Either way, it is HER decision, and hers alone. The only time YOU get to make the decision is when YOU are the woman who is pregnant. And you can -- and should -- ONLY make that choice for yourself, no one else.

Not YOUR pregnancy? Not your decision. Period.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

The fact is that abortion is termination of life. That is fact.

Terminating life is not unlawful. Terminating a human life is not unlawful nor unconsitutional. Murder is unlawful. Abortion is not murder.

Those are the facts.

If Americans wish to change the definition of murder, that is their right.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

jamesrage said:
So if a mother is about 6 months pregnant and she wants to kill her child then she should have that choice?
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If is it so save her life than yes, that sometimes is necessary. But at 6 months a baby can be viable so I doubt a lot of doctors would perform abortions at that late time.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Peter King said:
If is it so save her life than yes, that sometimes is necessary. But at 6 months a baby can be viable so I doubt a lot of doctors would perform abortions at that late time.
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Somewhere between 88% and 90% of all abortions in the USofA are performed before, or by the 12th week.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

According to the CDC in 2010 ( the latest stat available ) 91.9 percent of all US abortions took place less
than 13 weeks which is the 1st trimester )

In 2010, most (65.9%) abortions were performed at ≤8 weeks' gestation, and 91.9% were performed at ≤13 weeks' gestation. Few abortions (6.9%) were performed at 14–20 weeks' gestation, and even fewer (1.2%) were performed at ≥21 weeks' gestation.

From 2001 to 2010, the percentage of all abortions performed at ≤8 weeks' gestation increased 10%, whereas the percentage performed at >13 weeks' decreased 10%.

Moreover, among abortions performed at ≤13 weeks' gestation, the distribution shifted toward earlier gestational ages, with the percentage of these abortions performed at ≤6 weeks' gestation increasing 36%.
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Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2010
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Peter King said:
If is it so save her life than yes, that sometimes is necessary. But at 6 months a baby can be viable so I doubt a lot of doctors would perform abortions at that late time.
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True.
While Roe allows abortions up to viability ( with exceptions for risk to woman's life/ irreparable damage to a major bodily function )
Most doctors will NOT perform abortions past 19/20weeks gestation since the later the abprtion the more risk.

Therefore the risk to the woman's life to continue a pregnancy has to be greater than the risk to abort.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Dragonfly said:
It's that simple.
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It really isn't. And can be demonstrated very easily that this mentality doesn't work across the board.

A man wants to beat his chlid to the point of near death and sexually abuse them.

By your logic, he should be able to make that choice for "his family" without intrusion?
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Zyphlin said:
It really isn't. And can be demonstrated very easily that this mentality doesn't work across the board.

A man wants to beat his chlid to the point of near death and sexually abuse them.

By your logic, he should be able to make that choice for "his family" without intrusion?
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Your example is not a comparable analogy because a born child is considered a person.
He/she is also a social/ known entity.

An unborn is inside and attached to the woman.

At the time the vast majority of abortions take place only the woman and whomever she confides in is aware an unborn is even there.

It is estimated about 1 out every 4 women of child bearing years has had an abortion.

Look around you ...Can you tell which ones had an abortion by looking at them ?

Make sure to look at the mothers with young children too because over 60 percent of women who have had abortions have one or more born children.
 
re: Pro-Choice - It's Just This Simple[W:432]

Dragonfly said:
I make my choices for me and/or my family. I do what I think is best.

You make your choices for you and/or your family. You do what you think is best.

I won't make your choices for you, and in return you won't make my choices for me.

It's that simple.

Works for religion, pregnancy, sex, marriage, marijuana....

Should there be a magical sky-fairy with a long white beard and busty little angels floating around him playing harps....we'll both have nobody else to answer for except ourselves.
Our actions and motivations will be our own.
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Sure, and if someone believes in taking slaves and honor killing that's their own buisness too, right? Right.

Thanks for sharing, your opinion is dismissed.
 
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