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Pro-Bush demonstrators attack their own

scottyz

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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050827/ap_on_re_us/peace_mom

There also were some heated moments at the pro-Bush rally when Bush supporters mistakenly identified two people as war protesters. The two walked in with a sign that read "Say No to War — Unless a Democrat is President."

Many Bush supporters only saw the top of the sign and believed the men were war protesters, so they began shouting and chasing the pair out. One man tore up their signs.

When Will Marean of Minneapolis kept repeating that he was on the Bush side, one Bush supporter shook his hand and apologized.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
 

danarhea

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Actually, there is a considerable Conservative backlash against the Iraq war that is now picking up steam. Not all Conservatives are Neocons, and some of us are quite angry these days with the way Bush has managed both foreign and domestic policy. Click this link and you will see what I mean.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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There are very few actual Pro-Bush demonstrators. Most of the groups you hear of were actually hired by Right Wing P.R. firms.
 

danarhea

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SouthernDemocrat said:
There are very few actual Pro-Bush demonstrators. Most of the groups you hear of were actually hired by Right Wing P.R. firms.
If you dont mind my saying so, the term "right wing" is bandied about in a derogatory way as much as the term "liberal" is. I would like to make a correction:

Bush and his bunch are not really right wing, nor are they the Conservatives they claim to be. They are Neoconservatives, whose mentor was Irving Kristol. Kristol was a card carrying member of the Communist Party, and his son, William, has stated on numerous occasions that he would be willing to fight against Conservatives and would support pro-war Liberals (there are a few of those). Although Irving Kristol reputed much of Communist ideology, he still kept strategic elements of it. This is the ideology that the Neocon movement sprang from.

The whole concept of left versus right as a basis of political discussion is a faulty one in today's climate, because these words have been used to divide the American people by both the Democrats and Republicans.
 

Pacridge

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SouthernDemocrat said:
There are very few actual Pro-Bush demonstrators. Most of the groups you hear of were actually hired by Right Wing P.R. firms.
Where are you getting this info? Have any sources to cite?

Seriously how do you know these people are "mostly" hired by PR firms?
 

Navy Pride

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SouthernDemocrat said:
There are very few actual Pro-Bush demonstrators. Most of the groups you hear of were actually hired by Right Wing P.R. firms.
Do you have a link for that? Please not moveon.org or Michael "Fats" Moore..........
 

Pacridge

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danarhea said:
Actually, there is a considerable Conservative backlash against the Iraq war that is now picking up steam. Not all Conservatives are Neocons, and some of us are quite angry these days with the way Bush has managed both foreign and domestic policy. Click this link and you will see what I mean.

Welcome to Debate Politics!
 

danarhea

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Pacridge said:
Welcome to Debate Politics!
Thank you, and happy to be here. I noticed there are no trolls on this board, and I am very impressed. :)
 

ShamMol

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danarhea said:
If you dont mind my saying so, the term "right wing" is bandied about in a derogatory way as much as the term "liberal" is. I would like to make a correction:

Bush and his bunch are not really right wing, nor are they the Conservatives they claim to be. They are Neoconservatives, whose mentor was Irving Kristol. Kristol was a card carrying member of the Communist Party, and his son, William, has stated on numerous occasions that he would be willing to fight against Conservatives and would support pro-war Liberals (there are a few of those). Although Irving Kristol reputed much of Communist ideology, he still kept strategic elements of it. This is the ideology that the Neocon movement sprang from.

The whole concept of left versus right as a basis of political discussion is a faulty one in today's climate, because these words have been used to divide the American people by both the Democrats and Republicans.
Very perceptive and may I be one of many to say welcome to Debate politics. It is great to see you here.

I think that even more than a neocon or hawk movement though, the Bush Administration is really just a continuation of what we saw with Reagan-which to put it nicely is not good news for the economy in about 3 years, especially with the new round of tax cuts that have just been proposed. I think, however, that we have seen more elements come into this white house that have been both conservative (yes), neoconservative, and hawkish-because there is no real other way to describe that attitude. This has been seen especially in dealing with other countries. Forgive the rant as I am about to leave on a trip and have to get some stuff out.

Bolton just basically gave a de-facto fu to the UN nations and said "Hey, you better sign this, or I am going to trash the UN as quickly as I can possibly do so." I now how no idea why Voinivich (sp?) wanted to keep this guy away from the UN...none at all...amazing. More will come out about this in the next few days, and I urge you all to keep your eyes and ears up for it.

Basically, this is what it proves-Bush didn't learn his lesson that he was supposed to from Iraq. He alienated his best friends in the world and started to try and win them back in the past few months. Instead of saying...you know, I am going to appoint someone who they can work with and they might like, I am going to appoint someone who will seek to destroy (again, more on that in the next few days, hell, maybe even tomorrow, depends on how quickly this story breaks...basically, they have a limited time to sign this declaration) the very foundation that has helped them so many times. He said, once again, I don't need you. Mistake, mistake, mistake. I would have thought he could try and at least reign in John Bolton once he got there, but maybe this is what he wants to do-alienate his allies further. Amazing.

Alright...rant over. Again, welcome to the forum and for the most part your analysis is spot on.
 

scottyz

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ShamMol said:
that we have seen more elements come into this white house that have been both conservative (yes), neoconservative, and hawkish-because there is no real other way to describe that attitude.
There is also a element of religious fanaticism in this admin. and its base.
 

scottyz

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danarhea said:
Actually, there is a considerable Conservative backlash against the Iraq war that is now picking up steam. Not all Conservatives are Neocons
Sadly the Neo-cons have more or less hi-jacked the Repubican party. I'll most likely never be voting for a Republican again if it stays this way.
 

ShamMol

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scottyz said:
There is also a element of religious fanaticism in this admin. and its base.
I consider that part of the the neoconservative movement....they tend to walk hand in hand these days...most people just don't make these distinctions anymore but I do believe it is important.
 

SKILMATIC

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Sadly the Neo-cons have more or less hi-jacked the Repubican party. I'll most likely never be voting for a Republican again if it stays this way.
So you will never vote for a republican again becasue why? Please enlighten me some.
 

ShamMol

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SKILMATIC said:
So you will never vote for a republican again becasue why? Please enlighten me some.
Because they have gone from representing true conservative values (something which I as a liberal can actually respect) to representing neoconservative values. He said that they have in a sense hijacked his party and changed it from what it was...a stalwart defender of old, to the neoconservative bastard child of Reagan....

My words...his sentiment.
 

SKILMATIC

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Ok...??? So what exactly doesnt he agree with then? I want to know what principles the conservatives changed? Specifics? And conservatives are poilitcal standpoints not a political party. So if he is going to perpetuate that conservatism is the same as republicans then thats a mistake. Its like me saying all liberals are democrat(even though a huge majority are) and vice versa.
 

ShamMol

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SKILMATIC said:
Ok...??? So what exactly doesnt he agree with then? I want to know what principles the conservatives changed? Specifics? And conservatives are poilitcal standpoints not a political party. So if he is going to perpetuate that conservatism is the same as republicans then thats a mistake. Its like me saying all liberals are democrat(even though a huge majority are) and vice versa.
Even though a huge majority are? No. I laugh at you. Honestly I do. All the politicians in the Democratic party who have remained liberal have had to bury it deep down inside and the only true liberals that remain have either been run out of office or are out there. There are about 5 in the Senate and 20 in the house at best who are true libs.

People think people like Kerry are liberals and I laugh at them. Conservatives think Clinton was a lib and I laugh at them. It is hilarious.

I can't speak for him.
 

Pacridge

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ShamMol said:
Even though a huge majority are? No. I laugh at you. Honestly I do. All the politicians in the Democratic party who have remained liberal have had to bury it deep down inside and the only true liberals that remain have either been run out of office or are out there. There are about 5 in the Senate and 20 in the house at best who are true libs.

People think people like Kerry are liberals and I laugh at them. Conservatives think Clinton was a lib and I laugh at them. It is hilarious.

I can't speak for him.
I think it's best not to speak for other people.

You don't think Clinton is/was a liberal?
 

ShamMol

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Pacridge said:
I think it's best not to speak for other people.

You don't think Clinton is/was a liberal?
No. I do not. He was a centrist moderate who fell to his knees for corporations and only showed liberal trends in his last two years. Hillary is more liberal, but she has the same corporation problem.
 

scottyz

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SKILMATIC said:
So you will never vote for a republican again becasue why? Please enlighten me some.
It's already been explained. The party has been hi-jacked by a bunch of lunatics who are only conservative in the fundamentalist Christian sense. The vast majority of them appear unable to think independently as they all march in step and never question the President. I find that scary.
 

Pacridge

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scottyz said:
It's already been explained. The party has been hi-jacked by a bunch of lunatics who are only conservative in the fundamentalist Christian sense. The vast majority of them appear unable to think independently as they all march in step and never question the President. I find that scary.
I can understand your frustration with the current GOP. But I wouldn't go so far as saying I'd never vote GOP again. Kind of leaves your options limited, doesn't it?

I think there's still a lot of good people in the GOP. I also think they're starting to take the party back.
 

danarhea

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Pacridge said:
I can understand your frustration with the current GOP. But I wouldn't go so far as saying I'd never vote GOP again. Kind of leaves your options limited, doesn't it?

I think there's still a lot of good people in the GOP. I also think they're starting to take the party back.
Its a good perception, and you are right. I stopped voting Republican in presidential races in 2000, when I voted for Buchanan, and voted for Badnarik in 2004. However, there are quite a few honest Republicans still in the party, and I did vote for some of them last year. The days of the Bushneviks are numbered, because it doesnt take a rocket scientist to ignore the spin and lies and see what is happening to our country with his own eyes.

Glad that you see the Neocons as they really are, parasites who are using the GOP as their host. Am also glad you havent become a Democrat. LOL.

What do you think of Tom McClintock?
 
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