jimmyjack
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,166
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- U.K England
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- Political Leaning
- Conservative
talloulou said:I'd think to have an abortion you have to convince yourself your not killing a baby. Why else would prochoicers play the semantics game so much. Once you convince yourself you probably are well off till that one day when you are carrying a baby that you actually want to keep. Now all the sudden it's a baby!! Your going to have a baby and you go for the ultrasounds and what not. I imagine that messes you up a bit mentally. How could it not?
vergiss said:So what about all those women who've already had children, and still choose to abort? :roll:
talloulou said:Yeah I imagine that is mentally hard as well :2razz:
This isn't an argument about whether abortion should be legal or not. Obviously the decision to have an abortion would put mental strain on anyone. Or are you suggesting that for some that's not the case?
vergiss said:For many that's not the case, and many more never doubt their decision. If I fell pregnant today, I wouldn't give it a second thought.
I suggest you hang out with the average woman whose had an abortion and was strong enough not to fall for the nasty pro-life guilt-tripping.
vergiss said:What about the majority of women who don't regret their abortion? Are they unfeeling monsters? :roll:
In the US, the estimate is that about 43% of women have abortions at some point. And, per the CDC data, 58% of abortions are per failing contraception.talloulou said:First I hope it hasn't become so bad that the "average woman" has had an abortion. I would hope that most women haven't had abortions. Are you suggesting that they are that common? There is birth control after all and even though it isn't 100% effective the stuff is pretty good.
steen said:In the US, the estimate is that about 43% of women have abortions at some point. And, per the CDC data, 58% of abortions are per failing contraception.
As for the pro-life lies about the certainty of women's emotional distress or serious mental illness, that is just another lie, just like all the other lies about how abortion causes breast cancer, causes suicide, or that the fetus feels pain.
Yes, pro-lifers lie A LOT when they make their claims.
We are used to that and have come to expect it to the point where we simply KNOW that pro-lifers lie as certanly as we know that fish swim and birds fly.
You might want to look at the latest stats here:talloulou said:Wow that is actually more than I would have thought!
Pain is a feeeling processed in the brain's cortex. The nerve fibers from the body's sensory nerves don't even connect with the brain's cortex until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy. yes, I am sure.Certainty is a strong word. That's why I don't use it. Are you certain a fetus doesn't feel pain?
No, it saddens me that to deal with pro-lifers, it is necessary to deal with an endless amount of lies. It would be much more pleasant to deal with facts and honesty.Well that's a hefty accusation. Does it make you feel better?
I said that we have come to expect this and that pro-lifers lie. Not all of them, but many.hmmmm I see you don't feel as nervous about being "certain" as I do. Maybe you should take a peak at the thread on Socrates and being wise.
steen said:Pain is a feeeling processed in the brain's cortex. The nerve fibers from the body's sensory nerves don't even connect with the brain's cortex until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy. yes, I am sure.
talloulou said:But isn't a fetus considered a fetus till birth? And typical pregnancies last apx 36-40 weeks. So how can you say for certain that a fetus over 26 weeks doesn't feel pain???
First I hope it hasn't become so bad that the "average woman" has had an abortion. I would hope that most women haven't had abortions. Are you suggesting that they are that common? There is birth control after all and even though it isn't 100% effective the stuff is pretty good.
Second....while I wouldn't hang out with prolife crazies who harrass women who have made the painstaking decision to abort I also think I'm going to have to refrain from hanging with the women who don't give abortion a "second thought."
Maybe there wouldn't be as many abortions if people did give it a second thought and weren't so "flippant" about the whole thing. And feeling doubt about a decision and feeling pained about a decision are two different things. You might be forced to make a decision in life that pains you and that does not mean you will feel regret or wish you had chosen differently.
I can't. Not in 3rd trimester.talloulou said:But isn't a fetus considered a fetus till birth? And typical pregnancies last apx 36-40 weeks. So how can you say for certain that a fetus over 26 weeks doesn't feel pain???
And only about 1.4% of all abortions happen at or after 21st week, which is still more than a month away from 3rd trimester.vergiss said:Less than ten percent of abortions in the US happen in the second or third trimester...
Interesting sig. there, NP. Kerry is a swiftboat veteran, by the way.Navy Pride said:
steen said:Interesting sig. there, NP. Kerry is a swiftboat veteran, by the way.
Kinda seems like clinical admission that if you get an abortion, you're screwed up....chicken or egg...it's not a good thing.Kandahar said:I'd be interested to see what "previous indicators" this study actually controlled for. It seems to me highly likely that abortion is correlated with certain mental disorders, but that doesn't mean it causes them. Could it be that certain mental disorders increase the likelihood that a person will get an abortion, and/or that some other unseen factor makes it more likely that a person will get an abortion AND get certain mental disorders?
As long as patients are made aware of the correlation and understand the risks involved, it's ultimately they're decision. I'm not suggesting you're necessarily framing the argument as such, but the possibility of side effects to the woman is not a valid reason to outlaw abortion.
Felicity said:Kinda seems like clinical admission that if you get an abortion, you're screwed up....chicken or egg...it's not a good thing.
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