Privatization of Libraries

[LizardofOz]

why not fund a library without demanding others be taxed to do so

A very small portion of your money is used to fund libraries and chances are you get charged more for your water than you do a library. I am still on the fence about it, I think Ben Franklin had the right idea and we should honor his idea and keep it going, but it will need to continue to evolve. Libraries can be made much cheaper and efficent. Libraries also get a lot of their money from fines and fees. I remember borrowing like 10 books and 10 movies and 2 games and for whatever reason I didnt get them back to the library until a week after they were due but I also didn't mind paying the fees because well, either way you are getting a deal compared to a movie rental store, and I borrowed a lot of comicbook trade paperbacks so I saved mucho money there too.

Libraries offer a lot of services and activies to children that are incredibly invaluable, so I don't think they will go anywhere anytime soon but I also think we could do away with a lot of extra stuff many libraries still have that are just outdated to save them and taxpayers some money.

 

[Hoplite]

you are the one who is ranting because you are posting stuff that you cannot factually back up
I want some proof that community libraries actually increase the tax base

so it is your BELIEF that those who go to libraries become more prosperous and pay more taxes than those who do not?

you are making all sorts of assumptions that you cannot prove. No one I know goes to public libraries any more. THe people who are ignorant and undeducated do not, nor do the wealthy and industrious.
you also ignore the fact that the socialist answer to everything-more taxes-is complete BS

few government units can afford such stuff anymore

Ok, if all you wanted to do was waste my time, shoulda just said so and saved us a little bandwidth.

Pester someone else

From this statement you think they're running their libraries at a profit?


That $400K?? That's tax dollars, Hoplite. Not profit from running their libraries.

Profit from operation and tax revenue over and above what operational costs run are lumped together.

 

[TurtleDude]

Ok, if all you wanted to do was waste my time, shoulda just said so and saved us a little bandwidth.

Pester someone else



Profit from operation and tax revenue over and above what operational costs run are lumped together.

if responding on this board is "pestering" perhaps you ought to find a better use of your valuable time--such as maybe working harder so you can find out what its like to pay more taxes.

smart people realize that you can always ignore posters you don't agree with rather than whining

 

[Geo Patric]

why not fund a library without demanding others be taxed to do so

ignorance is only cheap in the short term, knowlege pays off for a lifetime.

i am, again, in the library as i write this along with about 60 others. about half are kids (middle school age) or elderly. most are using computers. the children's section is lively - a volunteer is reading to preschoolers.

libraries are more than just book collections. they are place for accessing information. in a few weeks, the afternoons will be packed with students... though they recently made significant cuts in hours, so many will have less access for homework and research. and they are places to meet others with similar interests. hell, i usually don't need to take out my library card. The librarian knows me well enough to use my name.

when i was a kid, the library at the end of the block was the one place i could be after dark without supervision, without asking permission or any particular need. and i spent a lotta time there.

these are sacred places. they need to be protected.

geo.

 

[TurtleDude]

ignorance is only cheap in the short term, knowlege pays off for a lifetime.

i am, again, in the library as i write this along with about 60 others. about half are kids (middle school age) or elderly. most are using computers. the children's section is lively - a volunteer is reading to preschoolers.

libraries are more than just book collections. they are place for accessing information. in a few weeks, the afternoons will be packed with students... though they recently made significant cuts in hours, so many will have less access for homework and research. and they are places to meet others with similar interests. hell, i usually don't need to take out my library card. The librarian knows me well enough to use my name.

when i was a kid, the library at the end of the block was the one place i could be after dark without supervision, without asking permission or any particular need. and i spent a lotta time there.

these are sacred places. they need to be protected.

geo.

sounds like lots of people would happily fund such a place if overburdened local governments could not

sounds like a plan

 

[LizardofOz]

sounds like lots of people would happily fund such a place if overburdened local governments could not

sounds like a plan

Sounds to me you may be a bit out of touch too, many of the people that use the library can use it no more than what is taxed from them.

 

[TurtleDude]

Sounds to me you may be a bit out of touch too, many of the people that use the library can use it no more than what is taxed from them.

try rephrasing that-that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

 

[mac]

Well, I'm now thoroughly irritated with my hometown

Disgusted with the whole lot of them (except Bob Kellar) | SCVTalk.com


In fairness, budget concerns are real but I think our city council rushed to hand the problem off to someone else rather than try to deal with it by less extreme measures.

This is a SERIOUSLY unpopular move in the community.

What you'll see happen is a better run library, offering more resources at less cost. Works in prisons, why not libraries?

 

[LizardofOz]

try rephrasing that-that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

I'm saying the little bit of our taxes used to keep libraries going should continue to be used. My community for example, has a very small, modest library that I think suits them well. The population is 600. Then again, we have 4 cop cars that are 2009 Dodge Chargers. Why in the hell do they need that?

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm saying the little bit of our taxes used to keep libraries going should continue to be used. My community for example, has a very small, modest library that I think suits them well. The population is 600. Then again, we have 4 cop cars that are 2009 Dodge Chargers. Why in the hell do they need that?

uh because catching criminals is a legitimate function of local government

 

[Mensch]

As a Libertarian, I would actually keep the library public. I am, after all, a libertarian who is also a federal employee for the National Archives and Records Administration, because I believe this information belongs to the public, it does not belong to any one individual. Public libraries and archives facilitate the freedom of information.

I'd cut the policemen before the librarians, becaue I would repeal a lot of laws. As Lao Tzu once said, "the more laws you enact, the more criminals you create."

 

[Geo Patric]

What you'll see happen is a better run library, offering more resources at less cost. Works in prisons, why not libraries?

that is simply insane.

geo.

 

[FilmFestGuy]

real selfishness comes from those who demand that others pay for something they want

tiring of having to pay for stuff I don't use so you can feel smug and self righteous is not selfish

demanding that I pay for stuff you want is true greed. its parasitic

So demanding that I pay for a War in Iraq that I didn't want is smug and parasitic then, right?

Paying John Boehner's salary? I don't think he should get paid. So, him getting paid makes him smug and parasitic, then, right?

Paying for farm subsidies (which, let's be honest, both parties cowtow to) and Medicare is smug and parasitic?
Think Progress » Farmer who put up sign claiming Democrats are ‘party of parasites’ has taken $1 million in farm subsidies. (hello, irony!)

 

[FilmFestGuy]

As a Libertarian, I would actually keep the library public. I am, after all, a libertarian who is also a federal employee for the National Archives and Records Administration, because I believe this information belongs to the public, it does not belong to any one individual. Public libraries and archives facilitate the freedom of information.

I'd cut the policemen before the librarians, becaue I would repeal a lot of laws. As Lao Tzu once said, "the more laws you enact, the more criminals you create."

Yay! It always makes me happy to find common ground with someone whom I occasionall disagree.

You've put this elegantly and make a great argument.

I applaud you.

 

[Hoplite]

What you'll see happen is a better run library, offering more resources at less cost. Works in prisons, why not libraries?

As I said before, how could we get better services for less cost? We already get amazing access AND we're turning a profit for County.


There has been further developments to the story.

The union representing the librarians has found the City Council in violation of a city code that requires adequate public discussion of something this major before voting on it.

Also, the City Council claimed they had set up an ad-hoc committee to discuss the issue and a review of the minutes of all meetings back to 1990 show no such committee being formed. Furthermore, the City Council claimed they had an analysis done that showed the city wold be able to handle the expense. A review from '08 by their own financial office showed that such a proposal was FAR beyond the city's ability to pay for it.

We've also found out that there was a timeframe of only two weeks between when the city began asking for contracts and the deadline. That's an extremely tight timetable to put one together...unless you already have one.

The worst came from our faux-high society magazine. The magazine published an article the day after the city council's vote saying hat it was a done-deal and the City Council had voted yes. The article even included each City Council member's name and how they voted. The problem is that article was hardcopy and printing for distribution the night the city council was to be voting. So someone at the magazine either needs to talk to James Randi about his pre-cognitive powers or they had information none of the rest of us had.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Well, I'm now thoroughly irritated with my hometown

Disgusted with the whole lot of them (except Bob Kellar) | SCVTalk.com


In fairness, budget concerns are real but I think our city council rushed to hand the problem off to someone else rather than try to deal with it by less extreme measures.

This is a SERIOUSLY unpopular move in the community.

Libraries are expensive to build and stock - and they bring in very little revenue. They're free to everyone but charge only late-fees on books and some might charge for your library card or for parking. Internet, books, reference materials, magazines, study-rooms and so forth. . .all provided at the tax-payer's expense.

Groundskeeping, maintenance, book care, employment of clerks and so forth, utilities, phone, internet - it all costs money.

Sadly - it seems logical that many areas have to cut back and many areas just can't afford the cost of library maintenance.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

As a Libertarian, I would actually keep the library public. I am, after all, a libertarian who is also a federal employee for the National Archives and Records Administration, because I believe this information belongs to the public, it does not belong to any one individual. Public libraries and archives facilitate the freedom of information.

I'd cut the policemen before the librarians, becaue I would repeal a lot of laws. As Lao Tzu once said, "the more laws you enact, the more criminals you create."

Oh - so if you *see* no crime then you *have* no crime?

While I love libraries and visit them frequently - I favor my safety and security more than free books.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Oh - so if you *see* no crime then you *have* no crime?

While I love libraries and visit them frequently - I favor my safety and security more than free books.

It's a lot easier to secure your own safety than it is to reinvent the wheel (with respect to re-gathering the knowledge of a civilization all on your own).

 

[LizardofOz]

uh because catching criminals is a legitimate function of local government

So let me see if I get this straight, educating children, civilians, having a good place for after school and weekend activities, a place to borrow books and movies etc that cost a town with a population of 600 pennies is a waste of money.

HOWEVER 4 2009 Dodge Chargers and gearing it up for police equipment at a cost of over $32,000 each for this town of 600 there is no waste whatsoever there right?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

It's a lot easier to secure your own safety than it is to reinvent the wheel (with respect to re-gathering the knowledge of a civilization all on your own).

So - without libraries in small towns civilization, advancement and technology would set to 0?

It's not like we're picking in Cuneiform these days.

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

Council approves library takeover
I was off by $100,000

When I was a kid the library was one big room in an average brick building. I'm not sure they had a restroom for the public. The floor had a linoleum covering of some sort. I think we had a head librarian, and a parttime clerk. I never used it much, cause my Mom bought some encyclopedia's that I used for research. I wasn't a reader, so it didn't do me much good in that department.

They've since built a new library in my present location, and it is a grande place to behold. Marble floors. Granite countertops in the huge multi-stall restroom with travertine floors. It cost several million taxpayer dollars. They have all kinds of stuff for the public. I know one thing. It does a good job of keeping the homeless warm in winter, and cool in summer.

 

[TurtleDude]

So demanding that I pay for a War in Iraq that I didn't want is smug and parasitic then, right?

Paying John Boehner's salary? I don't think he should get paid. So, him getting paid makes him smug and parasitic, then, right?

Paying for farm subsidies (which, let's be honest, both parties cowtow to) and Medicare is smug and parasitic?
Think Progress » Farmer who put up sign claiming Democrats are ‘party of parasites’ has taken $1 million in farm subsidies. (hello, irony!)

I got a great idea

we who support the war effort and John Boehner can pay for that stuff and you dems who foisted welfare socialism on us can pay for all the unconstitutional entitlements that your party passed

right now people like me pay for both the stuff I support and the idiotic socialism people like you support

so I am all happy with paying for the stuff I support and making you dems pay for all the BS we don't want

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I don't mind the notion if a privatized (actually - it would be a 'governed by proxy' just as the airlines function, etc) *but* I know that privatizing anything sets up the cards for a crap game in the dealer's favor.

I'm against corporatism - but by proxy in which decisions and budget are left to someone else? *maybe* - but that's an extremely slim *maybe* . . . I just don't trust people to be fair, honest and capable.

 

[LizardofOz]

I got a great idea

we who support the war effort and John Boehner can pay for that stuff and you dems who foisted welfare socialism on us can pay for all the unconstitutional entitlements that your party passed

right now people like me pay for both the stuff I support and the idiotic socialism people like you support

so I am all happy with paying for the stuff I support and making you dems pay for all the BS we don't want

Are you trying to say that libraries are socialist?

 

[VanceMack]

Hoplite, would you explain to me how your three libraries are turning a profit of $500K a year?

Holy crap! Just looked up Santa Clarita. Taxpayers contributed $6.3 million to the county libraries? Unfreakin'believable.

That sounds like a heck of a business model. If they are investing that much and it is paying for itself AND turning a 500k profit, they need to be teaching the rest of the country a lesson.