Privatization of Libraries

[Cold Highway]

I dont see a problem here, if it fails than someone else will come around and pick up the pieces.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

What's a library? Is that like a luddite thing? :ssst:

 

[Deuce]

When it costs more to do, then not to do, someone always pays buddy. You have this strange notion that just because it's a "Gov't" service, it's okay to operate at a huge loss...

No, I have this strange notion that some services are important and should be provided even if it costs money.
Or perhaps you'd like to tell me how much profit the department of defense or department of education provide?

How is this so hard to understand?

 

[Hoplite]

WHY WOULD A CITY TURN OVER A PROFITABLE ENDEVOUR TO PRIVATE ENTERPRISE TO "SAVE MONEY".

That makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

"Damn Bob, this Library thing is profiting at 500k a year, we cannot afford this, let's turn it over to private enterprise!"

Because the profit doesnt go to the city, it goes to the County system. And LSSI has promised the city it can do better than $500,000 over 3 libraries.

Hoplite, there is no substantial revenue stream in public libraries other than taxpayer dollars. Making a $500K profit? On their 25-cent-a-day late fees? Ridiculous. Libraries don't make profits, they suck the life out of taxpayers.

Ok, it's not my problem that you cant get over your ideological hangups. If you want to find something that contradicts these numbers, be my guest. Otherwise, save the ranting for someone who cares.

 

[TurtleDude]

Are you against everything that is community/tax funded? I mean honestly, how deep does this selfishness run?

real selfishness comes from those who demand that others pay for something they want

tiring of having to pay for stuff I don't use so you can feel smug and self righteous is not selfish

demanding that I pay for stuff you want is true greed. its parasitic

 

[Deuce]

real selfishness comes from those who demand that others pay for something they want

tiring of having to pay for stuff I don't use so you can feel smug and self righteous is not selfish

demanding that I pay for stuff you want is true greed. its parasitic

We pay for it too, you know. Do you not understand how taxes work?

 

[Hoplite]

real selfishness comes from those who demand that others pay for something they want

tiring of having to pay for stuff I don't use so you can feel smug and self righteous is not selfish

demanding that I pay for stuff you want is true greed. its parasitic

You benefit from having an educated population around you, it's in your interests to assist in paying for a library.

 

[TurtleDude]

You benefit from having an educated population around you, it's in your interests to assist in paying for a library.

How do I benefit more than those who pay far less? We already make people pay for public schools

should we have to pay for piano lessons, ballet studios, etc?

you socialists have no shame in justifying confiscation of the wealth of others

 

[TurtleDude]

We pay for it too, you know. Do you not understand how taxes work?

I find it amazing that those who don't pay near as much taxes as I do presume to know more about how things work

here's a great Idea-if you want libraries, fund them yourselves. In this day and age we need to limit tax revenues spent only on essential and proper government services. Libraries are neither

 

[Hoplite]

How do I benefit more than those who pay far less?

A more educated population is a safeguard against a laundry list of abuses from both public and private entities as they are better able to discern and detect manipulation. Informed citizens can make better choices when voting and are less responsive to emotional frenzying.

Economically, more educated people tend to get better jobs, make more money, this obviously grows the economy which benefits you greatly.

You derive benefits from these institutions, so I feel no shame in asking you to help pay for them. Wanting benefits without paying sounds more parasitic than you wanting the benefits but NOT wanting to pay for them because you are too short-sighted to see the benefits.

 

[MaggieD]

Because the profit doesnt go to the city, it goes to the County system. And LSSI has promised the city it can do better than $500,000 over 3 libraries.


Ok, it's not my problem that you cant get over your ideological hangups. If you want to find something that contradicts these numbers, be my guest. Otherwise, save the ranting for someone who cares.

Just because Hoplite says it doesn't make it so. Where's a link to this $500K goldmine?

 

[Hoplite]

Just because Hoplite says it doesn't make it so. Where's a link to this $500K goldmine?

Council approves library takeover
I was off by $100,000

 

[TurtleDude]

A more educated population is a safeguard against a laundry list of abuses from both public and private entities as they are better able to discern and detect manipulation. Informed citizens can make better choices when voting and are less responsive to emotional frenzying.

Economically, more educated people tend to get better jobs, make more money, this obviously grows the economy which benefits you greatly.

You derive benefits from these institutions, so I feel no shame in asking you to help pay for them. Wanting benefits without paying sounds more parasitic than you wanting the benefits but NOT wanting to pay for them because you are too short-sighted to see the benefits.

can you even come close to proving your claims that libraries accomplish this?

Your claims that I am shortsighted appear to be nothing more than more socialist blatherings designed to justify more confiscation of wealth

 

[Hoplite]

can you even come close to proving your claims that libraries accomplish this?

Ok, pay attention.

Libraries have information that they loan out free of charge such that anyone of any means can come in and read the books that have this information and thus become more informed. I...cant really believe I had to explain that.

Your claims that I am shortsighted appear to be nothing more than more socialist blatherings designed to justify more confiscation of wealth

Hey I know it sucks to trip over the pothole of hypocrisy, but you'll get more respect after the fact by taking it like a man.

 

[TurtleDude]

Ok, pay attention.

Libraries have information that they loan out free of charge such that anyone of any means can come in and read the books that have this information and thus become more informed. I...cant really believe I had to explain that.


Hey I know it sucks to trip over the pothole of hypocrisy, but you'll get more respect after the fact by taking it like a man.

again, I ask you to prove your claims. You cannot so you start insulting me which is hilarious because I am honest enough not to call myself a centrist

the fact is you can justify confiscation of wealth all you want but socialism sucks and the government doesn't have the resources to pay for stuff like libraries when we are cutting police officers, fire departments etc

 

[Slartibartfast]

Ok, pay attention.

Libraries have information that they loan out free of charge such that anyone of any means can come in and read the books that have this information and thus become more informed. I...cant really believe I had to explain that.


Hey I know it sucks to trip over the pothole of hypocrisy, but you'll get more respect after the fact by taking it like a man.

I wouldn't worry about it. Some people believe that they are solely responsible for what happens to them in life, no matter what the facts are.

 

[Hoplite]

again, I ask you to prove your claims.

And I showed you how the process works. The increased rates of literacy and the proliferation of reading material as well as it's continued popularity in the face of less intellectually challenging material helps support it. I'm not exactly sure what you want to show this.

the fact is you can justify confiscation of wealth all you want but socialism sucks and the government doesn't have the resources to pay for stuff like libraries when we are cutting police officers, fire departments etc

Ranting does not help

 

[TurtleDude]

And I showed you how the process works. The increased rates of literacy and the proliferation of reading material as well as it's continued popularity in the face of less intellectually challenging material helps support it. I'm not exactly sure what you want to show this.

Ranting does not help

you are the one who is ranting because you are posting stuff that you cannot factually back up
I want some proof that community libraries actually increase the tax base

so it is your BELIEF that those who go to libraries become more prosperous and pay more taxes than those who do not?

you are making all sorts of assumptions that you cannot prove. No one I know goes to public libraries any more. THe people who are ignorant and undeducated do not, nor do the wealthy and industrious.
you also ignore the fact that the socialist answer to everything-more taxes-is complete BS

few government units can afford such stuff anymore

 

[TurtleDude]

I wouldn't worry about it. Some people believe that they are solely responsible for what happens to them in life, no matter what the facts are.

some people make up straw man arguments because they cannot actually address rational points

 

[Slartibartfast]

some people make up straw man arguments because they cannot actually address rational points

That would be a great refute, if it were true, but given what I have read of your posts from various threads, I think I am calling it like I see it.

 

[TurtleDude]

That would be a great refute, if it were true, but given what I have read of your posts from various threads, I think I am calling it like I see it.

I am sure that is what you believe

some people believe the world is flat or that Ross Perot is an alien or Barack Obama was qualified to be president

the world is full of faulty beliefs

 

[MaggieD]

Council approves library takeover
I was off by $100,000

From this statement you think they're running their libraries at a profit?

City staff say that by taking over the three libraries, it will keep $400,000 in town that would otherwise go to overhead costs in the county system.

That $400K?? That's tax dollars, Hoplite. Not profit from running their libraries.

 

[1069]

The problem is the County already provides great service that NO ONE has a problem with and our 3 libraries have actually been turning almost a $500,000 profit every year the last two years.

Under the new system, LSSI will get rid of ALL books that arent best-sellers or popular and those will be free to check out. If you want ANY OTHER kind of book, you can request it through the County system in which case LSSI will charge you $5 per book (plus shipping and handling on the book(s), once it gets there (In 5-6 weeks) you get the book for two weeks (no renewals), and it's $1 a day late fees. So basically they will have 500+ copies of whatever is new and hot but anything else will cost you to get. That's if your request is approved, LSSI can deny these requests (no, you dont get your money back)

ALL our periodicals and reference material will be kaput and computers will be pay-for-access and probably the same with the wifi (which is free now). There is talk about charging for library programs (currently free) and the libraries will be staffed with clerks, not librarians.

Under the County system, I can order ANY BOOK in the LA County Library System and have it usually in a few days to a week, keep it for three weeks, renew it if I want, and this is all completely free. I have free access to over 7 million books AND several hundred informational databases (LSSI will not pay for access to these databases) as well as city and county records and other periodicals. I can even have books MAILED TO MY HOUSE if I want.

Audio-visual material will also not be transferable between libraries and there's talk of eliminating AV stuff altogether.

Another issue is our city passed a parcel tax specifically to help fund the County library system and our city council is banking on being able to collect that tax for their libraries, except the measure SPECIFICALLY states that it is for the COUNTY library system, not the city.

I agree those changes suck.
That doesn't sound like it'll be much of a library at all.
Fight the powers.

 

[mikhail]

Libaries are a simple and beautiful use of public funds.A private library is a bookshop.Im glad to pay tax for something that offers free knowledge to anyone.

 

[TurtleDude]

Libaries are a simple and beautiful use of public funds.A private library is a bookshop.Im glad to pay tax for something that offers free knowledge to anyone.

why not fund a library without demanding others be taxed to do so