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Private pay shrinks to historic lows

zimmer

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Private pay shrinks to historic lows - USATODAY.com
Paychecks from private business shrank to their smallest share of personal income in U.S. history during the first quarter of this year, a USA TODAY analysis of government data finds.

At the same time, government-provided benefits — from Social Security, unemployment insurance, food stamps and other programs — rose to a record high during the first three months of 2010.
Yep... it's "change" alright.

Historic eeeeven.

Change you can believe in.
The one we have been waiting for.

And he is now at 42%.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ministration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Somehow, I think his teleprompteur is going to blame Bush 43 once again.

.
 
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Deuce

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Huh. During a recession we spend more on safety net programs and people get paid less.

edit: Do you even understand the article you just read? This is completely predictable during a recession.
 

FilmFestGuy

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zimmer

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Huh. During a recession we spend more on safety net programs and people get paid less.

edit: Do you even understand the article you just read? This is completely predictable during a recession.
Ugh... did you notice that Obi has done exactly the opposite of what should have been done to strengthen the economy?

The exact opposite.

He owns the record for THE WORST... it is his and his doing.
He's made another mark in the history books.

That's what happens when the press defaults on its duty.
You get an ignorant public whipped up into a Kool-Aid driven frenzy.

Just think, a race baiting, terror buddying, no-vote, no-show community organizing Acorn loving Marxist in the IL and US Senate, with no private business experience was actually voted into The Office of The President of the United States with:

Yes We can.
Hope.
Change.
Unity, and la pièce de résistance is...

We are the ones we have been waiting for.

That's how you get record failure.

EPIC FAILURE.

.
 
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justabubba

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Huh. During a recession we spend more on safety net programs and people get paid less.

edit: Do you even understand the article you just read? This is completely predictable during a recession.
that the Obama naysayers would post it without reading it was completely predictable
 

Deuce

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Ugh... did you notice that Obi has done exactly the opposite of what should have been done to strengthen the economy?

The exact opposite.

.
Really that's funny because most economists agree the stimulus and bailouts were a necessary evil that prevented us from turning this recession into a depression. Perhaps you'd like to show some sort of evidence to support yet another blanket accusation that Obama is personally to blame for everything that is wrong in the universe?
 

zimmer

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Really that's funny because most economists agree the stimulus and bailouts were a necessary evil that prevented us from turning this recession into a depression. Perhaps you'd like to show some sort of evidence to support yet another blanket accusation that Obama is personally to blame for everything that is wrong in the universe?
Most experts believed Obama would be a post racial president and good for America.
My they were proven wrong in a hurry, weren't they?

BTW... How much of that stimuli was put to use?

End of story.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/
President Obama's economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.
.
 
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phattonez

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Well yeah, more people are unemployed. Of course more income will come from the government during at time like this. Hopefully, though, this thread shuts up those who say that the economy is recovering.
 

Aunt Spiker

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I'll have an opinion once I grasp what a "private business" is considered to be.

Maybe it's just my day - but this elludes me completely. "Private" as in serving one's personal needs - like self-employment by selling items on ebay? Or "private" as in "non-government" - or what?
 

Deuce

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Most experts believed Obama would be a post racial president and good for America.
My they were proven wrong in a hurry, weren't they?
Changing the subject to race now?

BTW... How much of that stimuli was put to use?

End of story.

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul - Washington Times
The idea is to sacrifice some of a future boom to stabilize the short term collapse. I'll accept a .3% GDP drop over ten years to keep the recession from becoming a depression. Good cherry-picking though.
 

phattonez

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The idea is to sacrifice some of a future boom to stabilize the short term collapse. I'll accept a .3% GDP drop over ten years to keep the recession from becoming a depression. Good cherry-picking though.
That scenario blows, seriously. You want to sacrifice production for 10 years just so that we don't have a depression for a year or two? You don't want quality of life to improve?
 

zimmer

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Changing the subject to race now?
If you had noticed, it was used to make a parallel point.
You did not notice?
That's OK, I know sometimes it's difficult to comprehend brilliant debate tactics.

The idea is to sacrifice some of a future boom to stabilize the short term collapse. I'll accept a .3% GDP drop over ten years to keep the recession from becoming a depression. Good cherry-picking though.
This type of thinking brought along the Real Depression.

And this "prediction/tradeoff" is about as reliable and phony as the surplus to eternity BS Cliton/Algore/Edwards tried to sell back in 2000.

Surplus went poof? Why? It didn't exist except as a figment of their imaginations.

Tax cutting, government trimming, regulation elimination works every time, everywhere... because we are individuals and it appeals to us. My labor and property is not yours. You didn't do squat to earn it, and that is the problem. Those that have money to invest can find a whole bunch of other places to invest or park their coin... waiting for the day Obi and his Marxist Klan depart 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. In fact, they might not only want to park their coin elsewhere, they may move their entire business to more friendly shores.

I think we have sacrificed enough.
Of our money, our rights/freedoms.
I think it is time we go back to the quaint notion of Limited Government.
Personal Responsibility.
Charity.

Not government coercion and theft for redistribution.
No forcing banks to make bad loan after bad loan.
No more government entities that have scant oversight, do not have to report like a public company and pay out truck loads of cash to people like Obama; Fred & Fannie's #1 recipient.

Cut taxes, gut regulations and let us live as free people.

It is what will drive the recovery, just look at what happened when Reagan did it. He built the foundation for decades of growth from a foundation of Stagflation. Reagan's foundation is being pissed on by our Resident.

Tell me, why do they tax smokes and booze at high levels?
To discourage the behavior.
You want to grow the economy? Cut the class warfare BS. Encourage prosperity, for it is as JFK said... a rising tide raises all boats.

Obama is a Discourager.
An American Constitutional Infidel.
America's Enema.

He's doing it all backwards... and it is showing spectacular results.
Spectacularly awful.

.
 
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FilmFestGuy

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Reagan's foundation is being pissed on by our Resident.
You do realize that even if Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, his rates would still be lower than Reagan's, right (at least through the vast majority of his term)?

Ronald Reagan would be proud of Obama?s tax rates- Top Stocks - MSN Money

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2010

And you do realize that shortly after the tax cut reducing the rate to 28% on the highest earners, we immediately entered a recession which led to the MASSIVE deficits under HW Bush, which forced his hand into pushing the rate back up.

And you do realize that if the Bush tax cuts lapse, they will only return to the rates of the 1990s - the biggest economic boom in American history?

And if you'll read the link I posted earlier in this thread - the American tax burden actually IS the lowest in contemporary history.

So who are all these people who are paying such exorbitant taxes, because they sure as hell don't run in my circles (and I know some fairly wealthy folks here in Nashville).

So don't simply give me that it's "common sense" - I want you to supply evidence that your assertions are correct that Obama's tax rates are somehow outrageous, when they're actually LOWER than Reagan's were - and that the proposed increase in the capital gains tax would do this:

Here’s the scorecard again so there’s no confusion: Reagan was at 20% for capital gains and 28% for dividends. Obama is at 20% for capital gains and 20% for dividends.​
(Source)

It would still be lower than it EVER was under Reagan.
 

zimmer

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You do realize that even if Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, his rates would still be lower than Reagan's, right (at least through the vast majority of his term)?
You don't think Reagan would have wanted to slash taxes further?
He was dealing with a bunch of lefties, and to accomplish what he did... without any assistance from the media... was pretty amazing.

And you do realize that shortly after the tax cut reducing the rate to 28% on the highest earners, we immediately entered a recession which led to the MASSIVE deficits under HW Bush, which forced his hand into pushing the rate back up.
Bush caved to Democrats as he wanted to get along.
Big mistake.
The photo of the Dems surrounding HW after the hike is similar to the one with W signing the Patriot Act.
Then the long knives came out.
Why don't R's ever learn?

And you do realize that if the Bush tax cuts lapse, they will only return to the rates of the 1990s - the biggest economic boom in American history?
Tech BUBBLE.
Bubbles are OK, but let's not think that 35 to 39% tax rates are stimulating.

What happened after the bubble burst? 911.
Bush cut taxes and we came out of it OK.

Obi wants to spread the wealth around.
$200,000 is now a rich person.
Back when the dreaded income tax was established, it was only to hit a fraction of the top 1%.
The wealthiest.
My how we had a rapid case of mission (socialism) creep.

So who are all these people who are paying such exorbitant taxes, because they sure as hell don't run in my circles (and I know some fairly wealthy folks here in Nashville).
State, Fed... allthe other BS and soon you pay over half your cash to the Pigs in DC and other State Crapitols.

So don't simply give me that it's "common sense" - I want you to supply evidence that your assertions are correct that Obama's tax rates are somehow outrageous, when they're actually LOWER than Reagan's were - and that the proposed increase in the capital gains tax would do this:
Obama's taxes in one small sliver is lower. The remainder is higher, and the burdens on business are ever increasing.


LOL...
No that's not only funny but absolutely hilarious in two ways, especially from a guy (Obi) who is economically illiterate and has voiced the following:

YouTube- Obama: Raise Taxes, Capital Gains - "For Purposes of Fairness"

Obi: Raise Taxes, Capital Gains - "For Purposes of Fairness"


(Did you hear what he said as well... he believes in pay-as-you-go... ROTFLMFAO)

Reagan reduced tax rates from a high of 70% to 28%.
He cut regulations.
It was this that freed cash and generated risk taking and jobs.

Dems squealed when rates went to 35%.

.
 
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Deuce

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If you had noticed, it was used to make a parallel point.
You did not notice?
That's OK, I know sometimes it's difficult to comprehend brilliant debate tactics.


This type of thinking brought along the Real Depression.

And this "prediction/tradeoff" is about as reliable and phony as the surplus to eternity BS Cliton/Algore/Edwards tried to sell back in 2000.

Surplus went poof? Why? It didn't exist except as a figment of their imaginations.

Tax cutting, government trimming, regulation elimination works every time, everywhere... because we are individuals and it appeals to us. My labor and property is not yours. You didn't do squat to earn it, and that is the problem. Those that have money to invest can find a whole bunch of other places to invest or park their coin... waiting for the day Obi and his Marxist Klan depart 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. In fact, they might not only want to park their coin elsewhere, they may move their entire business to more friendly shores.

I think we have sacrificed enough.
Of our money, our rights/freedoms.
I think it is time we go back to the quaint notion of Limited Government.
Personal Responsibility.
Charity.

Not government coercion and theft for redistribution.
No forcing banks to make bad loan after bad loan.
No more government entities that have scant oversight, do not have to report like a public company and pay out truck loads of cash to people like Obama; Fred & Fannie's #1 recipient.

Cut taxes, gut regulations and let us live as free people.

It is what will drive the recovery, just look at what happened when Reagan did it. He built the foundation for decades of growth from a foundation of Stagflation. Reagan's foundation is being pissed on by our Resident.

Tell me, why do they tax smokes and booze at high levels?
To discourage the behavior.
You want to grow the economy? Cut the class warfare BS. Encourage prosperity, for it is as JFK said... a rising tide raises all boats.

Obama is a Discourager.
An American Constitutional Infidel.
America's Enema.

He's doing it all backwards... and it is showing spectacular results.
Spectacularly awful.

.
Obama is doing everything right and the whole world will turn into a magical land of rainbows and sunshine!

See what I did there? I made an "argument" that is supported by just as much fact as yours! All you're doing is spewing partisan rhetoric regurgitated from radio talk show hosts and Fox News. Why are you even here?
 

American

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zimmer

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See what I did there? I made an "argument" that is supported by just as much fact as yours! All you're doing is spewing partisan rhetoric regurgitated from radio talk show hosts and Fox News. Why are you even here?
Do you know I rarely watch FOXNEWS (where I live they don't broadcast it), and do not have a whole lot of time for talk radio?
Can we say Knee-Jerk?

I think there are a few stellar folks that do a tremendous job of defending the founders and foundation of this country and ground their beliefs in the Constitution.
You know, the document Obama and Libs swore to protect and defend so help me God?
It is true, we have a Constitution, though libs seem to think it's an irrelevant document.

You know, this place eats too much time... which is why I drop in sporadically after months of absence... only to disappear for months.
Somebody has to pay for the Obama's army of free loaders.

Nice try, but try again.
Less jerk of the knee might work.

Sincerely,
From a former Commi Lib.

PS. Why am I here?
To make amends for being a Commi Lib retard in my youth.
How's that? Good enough for ya?

.
 
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FilmFestGuy

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You don't think Reagan would have wanted to slash taxes further?
He was dealing with a bunch of lefties, and to accomplish what he did... without any assistance from the media... was pretty amazing.
You speak to only what you think he might have wanted to do. Not to what he DID do.

Bush caved to Democrats as he wanted to get along.
Big mistake.
The photo of the Dems surrounding HW after the hike is similar to the one with W signing the Patriot Act.
Then the long knives came out.
Why don't R's ever learn?
Uh...The Patriot Act was signed when Republicans were in the majority, if you'll recall. Did some Dems sign it? Yeah. And it was stupid of them; but your Republicans are the ones who made it law initially.

Tech BUBBLE.
Bubbles are OK, but let's not think that 35 to 39% tax rates are stimulating.
Nor were they debilitating. That's my point. Not that I suggest that our rates should ever get up there again, but our economy shuffled along quite nicely when the highest rate was 90%. Still plenty of rich people then. Again, I would never suggest that, but we survived and even thrived with rates that high. We thrived when rates were 39%. To suggest we'll suddenly collapse when they return to that rate is hyperbole and nothing but.

What happened after the bubble burst? 911.
Bush cut taxes and we came out of it OK.
Until we weren't okay just five and half years later. You'll recall this collapse occurred starting in 2007. Bush was still in the White House, and the Dems had just taken control of Congress (and passed next to no legislation for two years).

Obi wants to spread the wealth around.
$200,000 is now a rich person.
Back when the dreaded income tax was established, it was only to hit a fraction of the top 1%.
The wealthiest.
My how we had a rapid case of mission (socialism) creep.
And "rich" during Reagan's time was $93,000 for singles and $128,000 for families. (Source)

Also, the top rate has never been set based on percentiles. It's always been set based on income.

State, Fed... all the other BS and soon you pay over half your cash to the Pigs in DC and other State Crapitols.

Obama's taxes in one small sliver is lower. The remainder is higher, and the burdens on business are ever increasing.
Sources? You've got to give me facts or I will not believe you.

I've shown you sources (from investment magazines and conservative foundations, no less) that show that tax rates are LOWER now than they were under nearly all of Reagan's presidency. You're simply saying something you've apparently heard somewhere and asking me to accept it.

LOL...
No that's not only funny but absolutely hilarious in two ways, especially from a guy (Obi) who is economically illiterate and has voiced the following:

YouTube- Obama: Raise Taxes, Capital Gains - "For Purposes of Fairness"

Obi: Raise Taxes, Capital Gains - "For Purposes of Fairness"


(Did you hear what he said as well... he believes in pay-as-you-go... ROTFLMFAO)
Again, you've proven that he said he was going to raise it. And I told you that he was. He's going to raise it to 20% (up from 15% and to the EXACT number that Reagan set it at); and he's going to raise the tax on dividends to 20% (8% points lower than under Reagan). I have a source. You have a youtube video that doesn't refute my source. It only has Obama explaining why he's doing exactly what I said he was going to do - at a rate that Reagan would have approved - because it's lower than Reagan's rate.

Reagan reduced tax rates from a high of 70% to 28%.
He cut regulations.
It was this that freed cash and generated risk taking and jobs.
Not entirely true. The top rate was 33% for income between $70,000 and $150,000 (approximating). Then it dropped back to 28% for revenue above $150,00 (again approximate). (Source)

Additionally, your argument ignores that Reagan raised the payroll taxes in 1983 and categorical taxes several times (TERFA in 1982 is one example). (Source)

Dems squealed when rates went to 35%.

.
Because, perhaps, it was done while our government was paying for two simultaneous wars?

The simple fact of the matter is this: Obama's tax rates are comparable to Reagan's. All the numbers say this.

You've yet to provide me with numbers that say otherwise - only speculation on what Reagan might have done. And the average family in 2009 had the lowest tax burden in contemporary history, as cited in a previous post.

It just seems to me that those who seem to worship Ronnie's legacy fail to look at the actual facts on the ground that even if the Bush tax cuts are allowed to lapse, the rates are NOT exorbitant nor will they destroy the nation. Here's a write-up in Forbes that basically says to stop getting your panties in a bunch about it - because it's not factually accurate that if the rates are allowed to rise it will destroy job growth, investment growth, or the economy. Read it and look at his numbers. They're real. Not speculation.
 

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Really that's funny because most economists agree the stimulus and bailouts were a necessary evil that prevented us from turning this recession into a depression. Perhaps you'd like to show some sort of evidence to support yet another blanket accusation that Obama is personally to blame for everything that is wrong in the universe?
You're wrong and that is a lie. Only White House economist say that the stimulus and bailouts were worth it. I wonder why that is? Without the bailouts and stimulus the Obama administration wouldn't be allowed to rape us.
 

justabubba

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You're wrong and that is a lie. Only White House economist say that the stimulus and bailouts were worth it. I wonder why that is? Without the bailouts and stimulus the Obama administration wouldn't be allowed to rape us.
yes, let's do ignore the changed direction of the economy
 

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we're becoming greece

bottom line

remember when obama promised to cut the deficit in half in 4 years?

remember when he patiently explained that his 862B dollar stimulus was necessary else unemployment would exceed 8%?

VIX fear gauge jumps to 14-month high - May. 20, 2010

Bank Risk Soars to Record, Default Swaps Overtake Lehman Crisis - Bloomberg.com

FT.com / Global Economy - Markets take fright at political moves

US home seizures reach record - BloombergUTV.com

Mortgage delinquencies drag on economic recovery - Yahoo! Finance

Half of U.S. Home Loan Modifications Default Again (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

Democrats Unlikely to Pass Spending Plan in Face of Deficits - BusinessWeek

US bankruptcies resume upward path in 1st quarter | Reuters

Commercial bankruptcies rose 52 percent in 2009

Small-business bankruptcies rise 81% in California - Los Angeles Times

Consumer, Celebrity Bankruptcies May Hit 1.4 Million (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

US faces one of biggest budget crunches in world – IMF – Telegraph Blogs

US faces same problems as Greece, says Bank of England – Telegraph Blogs

Investors Make It Official: Stock Correction Is Here - EconWatch - CBS News

Credit Risk Soars as Korea Tension, Euro Slump Spook Investors - Bloomberg.com

FT.com / China - Geithner softens his stance on China

Hu says China to hold firm on yuan policy

Senate permits gov't to borrow an additional $1.9T

9NEWS.com | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Colorado Department of Labor borrowing millions to pay unemployment benefits

Jobless claims rise by largest amount in 3 months - Yahoo! News

April mass layoffs rise led by manufacturing | Reuters

Robert J. Samuelson - The welfare state's death spiral

Debt Aid Package for Europe Took Nudge From Washington - NYTimes.com

Fed official: Europe's crisis poses risks to US - Yahoo! Finance

FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - US state pensions becoming federal issue

Fed Restarts Currency Swaps as EU Debt Crisis Flares (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

U.S. Debt Shock May Hit In 2018, Maybe As Soon As 2013: Moody's - IBD - Investors.com

My Way News - Fannie Mae seeks $8.4B in aid after 1Q loss

Volcker Says Time Is Running Out for U.S. to Tackle Fiscal Woes - Bloomberg.com

Broader U-6 Unemployment Rate Increases to 17.1% in April - Real Time Economics - WSJ
 
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Deuce

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You're wrong and that is a lie. Only White House economist say that the stimulus and bailouts were worth it. I wonder why that is? Without the bailouts and stimulus the Obama administration wouldn't be allowed to rape us.
U.S. Enters Recovery as Stimulus Refutes Skeptics (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

:2wave:

Before you go paste a study that says the opposite I'll point out that I'm well aware that there are people who disagree. My point is that "only white house economists" is clearly wrong which makes you the liar.
 
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