Pride Month! I celebrate.

[Inferno]

On June 27th 1969 the Rebellion at Stonewall Inn took place. It was the first time that gays and lesbians took a stand for basic human rights and fought back against police brutality and abusive treatment. LGBT Pride began with a riot at a small bar. Gays took a stand.

2009 is the 40th anniversary of that date. June is Pride Month and we celebrate that LGBT rights have progressed as far as they have. I and all of us wish that the nation would truly recognize us as legitimate citizens but we have come a long way in our journey, but not far enough.

I do believe that within the next decade we will have arrived at where we want to be. I look forward to the day when we are equal and not less than all the rest of you.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Please. You think any civil rights movement, any reform movement, just stops when it gets what it wants? You think it's ever done? Have you ever seen a movement declare victory and disband?

Mark my words, you'll be marching in the streets and demanding new legal "rights" and privileges for the rest of your life, and your peers will continue long after your bones are dust.

 

[Gardener]

Please. You think any civil rights movement, any reform movement, just stops when it gets what it wants? You think it's ever done? Have you ever seen a movement declare victory and disband?

Mark my words, you'll be marching in the streets and demanding new legal "rights" and privileges for the rest of your life, and your peers will continue long after your bones are dust.

That was certainly hostile and unwarranted.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I do believe that within the next decade we will have arrived at where we want to be. I look forward to the day when we are equal and not less than all the rest of you.

You are already more than equal. Hopefully, someday, government will recognize gay marriages.

 

[legojenn]

Please. You think any civil rights movement, any reform movement, just stops when it gets what it wants? You think it's ever done? Have you ever seen a movement declare victory and disband?

Mark my words, you'll be marching in the streets and demanding new legal "rights" and privileges for the rest of your life, and your peers will continue long after your bones are dust.

You say that like it's a bad thing. People will always jerk each other around. Stuff we do today will seem barbaric years, decades, centuries into the future. So, if our decendents are still fighting for equality in different ways, then good on them.

 

[Inferno]

Please. You think any civil rights movement, any reform movement, just stops when it gets what it wants? You think it's ever done? Have you ever seen a movement declare victory and disband?

Mark my words, you'll be marching in the streets and demanding new legal "rights" and privileges for the rest of your life, and your peers will continue long after your bones are dust.

What is really funny is that someday when the government starts to take away your rights as they did LGBT couples in California you will need someone to stand up for you. Rights are like dust on a table, they can just blow away any time the leaders think they have given to much.

 

[Jerry]

Please. You think any civil rights movement, any reform movement, just stops when it gets what it wants? You think it's ever done? Have you ever seen a movement declare victory and disband?

Mark my words, you'll be marching in the streets and demanding new legal "rights" and privileges for the rest of your life, and your peers will continue long after your bones are dust.

Why not? Blacks did it. They got the right to vote, and shortly after Loving was read by SCOTUS the Black Panthers disbanded.

I mean, come on Korimyr, you're usually a reasonable guy. If minority groups just kept going long after their goals were met then we would have things like a negro collage fund, national associations for the advancement of colored people, prominent reverends speaking out on political issues...who knows, the people of the US might even vote for a colored man over a white woman who better reflected their views simply because he was black.

But do we have any of that today?

I think you need to reconsider your position here.

 

[Jerry]

On June 27th 1969 the Rebellion at Stonewall Inn took place. It was the first time that gays and lesbians took a stand for basic human rights and fought back against police brutality and abusive treatment. LGBT Pride began with a riot at a small bar. Gays took a stand.

2009 is the 40th anniversary of that date. June is Pride Month and we celebrate that LGBT rights have progressed as far as they have. I and all of us wish that the nation would truly recognize us as legitimate citizens but we have come a long way in our journey, but not far enough.

I do believe that within the next decade we will have arrived at where we want to be. I look forward to the day when we are equal and not less than all the rest of you.

Right, because hetero women have already achieved true equality, not just in the work place, but also having secured the abortion front. Now its time to shore up the rights of gay woman.

 

[DeeJayH]

so if June is Gay Pride month, does that mean you are ashamed the other 11??

 

[Inferno]

Right, because hetero women have already achieved true equality, not just in the work place, but also having secured the abortion front. Now its time to shore up the rights of gay woman.

The law is telling me the kind of person they want me to marry. I don't happen to think that they are correct in choosing a mate for me.

You can pick the person you want because you fit into the marriage parameters that have been so set up to violate someone else's rights or to enforce antiquated religious beliefs on the masses.

 

[Inferno]

so if June is Gay Pride month, does that mean you are ashamed the other 11??

How about black history week? Do Blacks only have history one week a year? Get real. hehehehehehehe

It is the one month of the year where the straight folks are supposed to be proud of their LGBT brothers and sisters as well.

 

[Jerry]

The law is telling me the kind of person they want me to marry. I don't happen to think that they are correct in choosing a mate for me.

You can pick the person you want because you fit into the marriage parameters that have been so set up to violate someone else's rights or to enforce antiquated religious beliefs on the masses.

Well, in so far as I've seen, gay relationships are inherently different than hetero relationships, so while I certainly won't stand in your way to associate and cohabitate with whom you please, the nature of your relationship doesn't fit what marriage is about.

 

[Jerry]

How about black history week? Do Blacks only have history one week a year? Get real. hehehehehehehe

It is the one month of the year where the straight folks are supposed to be proud of their LGBT brothers and sisters as well.

What's there to be proud of?

Seriously, please educate me.

 

[Arch Enemy]

I think giving a month to a group of people to celebrate their heritage on the very basis that they've been unfairly treated is quite the bull**** I dislike.

When is Irish Pride month? My ancestors were the slaves of the Isles.

 

[DeeJayH]

I think giving a month to a group of people to celebrate their heritage on the very basis that they've been unfairly treated is quite the bull**** I dislike.

When is Irish Pride month? My ancestors were the slaves of the Isles.

you only get a day
white man getting screwed again :lol:

 

[DeeJayH]

How about black history week? Do Blacks only have history one week a year? Get real. hehehehehehehe

It is the one month of the year where the straight folks are supposed to be proud of their LGBT brothers and sisters as well.

why do i have to be proud of others for the way they were born?
Hatuey convined me of this, i think, in a debate about why i was proud to be an american when it was beyond my control, luck of the draw...

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It is. Because for every positive step we have made, every barbaric custom we have abolished, some self-serving political whore has found a way of making a parasitical career out of pushing it too far, out of turning decent and sensible reforms into new ways of disadvantaging and gouging the many to provide largess for the few.

Abolishing slavery and giving blacks the vote gave us "anchor babies" and forced us to extend the vote to the illiterate and the insane. The Civil Rights Movement gave us Affirmative Action. Feminism has given us a greater than 50% divorce rate and a less than 50% birthrate in wedlock. Every wave of immigration reform has given us an even larger wave of immigrants who have no interest in adapting to the American-- or Canadian-- lifestyle, not to mention making it easier for employers to use illegal immigrants to skirt labor laws and for human traffickers to engage in outright slavery.

I support allowing gay couples to get married, and for gay married couples to adopt children. But what do you think all of those activists are going to do once they've gotten those rights? What fresh horror are they going to conjure up for us, in order to protect their jobs as activists?

Don't delude yourself into thinking they're going to stop at "equal". Like every other movement of their kind, they're going to use the fact that social injustice still exists-- and will always exist-- as an excuse to perpetuate new forms of social injustice that benefit them.

What is really funny is that someday when the government starts to take away your rights as they did LGBT couples in California you will need someone to stand up for you.

It's even funnier that you think that when the government decides to turn on me and mine, that it's going to be you and yours even lifting a finger to stand for me. Chances are as good they'll be your jackboots on my neck as anyone else's.

 

[Jerry]

why do i have to be proud of others for the way they were born?
Hatuey convined me of this, i think, in a debate about why i was proud to be an american when it was beyond my control, luck of the draw...

I suppose we can be proud of gays for working hard against existing unjust biases and abuses in the workplace and smiler. Every person regardless should enjoy full liberty to live as hey choose.

Gay-marriage, however, is an abuse of that liberty.

 

[Inferno]

Well, in so far as I've seen, gay relationships are inherently different than hetero relationships, so while I certainly won't stand in your way to associate and cohabitate with whom you please, the nature of your relationship doesn't fit what marriage is about.

Marriage as a heterosexual venue should not be subsidized by the government through tax advantages. Then marriage can be whatever you want it to be about. It is unfair to single people as well. Why should they not get a tax break as well. The institution should be abolished or else given to same sex couples as well.

How is it that the government sanctions a religious service in many cases? What the kind of line are we crossing there?

 

[Redress]

It is. Because for every positive step we have made, every barbaric custom we have abolished, some self-serving political whore has found a way of making a parasitical career out of pushing it too far, out of turning decent and sensible reforms into new ways of disadvantaging and gouging the many to provide largess for the few.

Abolishing slavery and giving blacks the vote gave us "anchor babies" and forced us to extend the vote to the illiterate and the insane. The Civil Rights Movement gave us Affirmative Action. Feminism has given us a greater than 50% divorce rate and a less than 50% birthrate in wedlock. Every wave of immigration reform has given us an even larger wave of immigrants who have no interest in adapting to the American-- or Canadian-- lifestyle, not to mention making it easier for employers to use illegal immigrants to skirt labor laws and for human traffickers to engage in outright slavery.

I support allowing gay couples to get married, and for gay married couples to adopt children. But what do you think all of those activists are going to do once they've gotten those rights? What fresh horror are they going to conjure up for us, in order to protect their jobs as activists?

Don't delude yourself into thinking they're going to stop at "equal". Like every other movement of their kind, they're going to use the fact that social injustice still exists-- and will always exist-- as an excuse to perpetuate new forms of social injustice that benefit them.

Somebody does not understand the different between correlation and causation.

 

[WI Crippler]

I do believe that within the next decade we will have arrived at where we want to be. I look forward to the day when we are equal and not less than all the rest of you.

Well coming to this forum, convinced me to be supportive of the rights of homosexuals as far as non-discrimination and marriage rights, whereas I was opposed to them before.

However, beyond the gay marriage debate, is there anything else you feel need be addressed in regards to gay rights, or is the marriage debate the final straw?

 

[Redress]

What's there to be proud of?

Seriously, please educate me.

In her case, that despite all the societal pressures to be other than she is, she chose to do what was right for her and be who she is. That was not easy, and had some inherent costs, but she did it.

 

[Inferno]

What's there to be proud of?

Seriously, please educate me.

Everyone should be able to proud of themselves. As a white heterosexual male you have never been in the position to be the point of discrimination. It is good that it is called pride. What it is about when we first marched in NY 40 years ago was a call to come out and stop being afraid of being judged by others. By proud of who you are. You have to understand the nature of the celebration to know what is meant by pride in such context. I hope that helps.

 

[Jerry]

Marriage as a heterosexual venue should not be subsidized by the government through tax advantages. Then marriage can be whatever you want it to be about. It is unfair to single people as well. Why should they not get a tax break as well. The institution should be abolished or else given to same sex couples as well.

The government has a valid interest in couples raising children, which, btw, is what marriage is for.

How is it that the government sanctions a religious service in many cases? What the kind of line are we crossing there?

There was nothing even remotely religious about my marriage until my wife and I renewed our vows years later; and when we did, there was nothing at all legal about that renewal.

I'm sorry, but your attempts to polarize the issue as "religious-v-free citizens" is not going to work.

 

[Redress]

Well coming to this forum, convinced me to be supportive of the rights of homosexuals as far as non-discrimination and marriage rights, whereas I was opposed to them before.

However, beyond the gay marriage debate, is there anything else you feel need be addressed in regards to gay rights, or is the marriage debate the final straw?

I cannot answer for her, but for myself I think gay marriage is the last hurdle for gays.