Presidential Quotes and the Fate of Our Nation

[Snagglepuss]

Hello all...first thread here (other than the one in the "Come and say Hi" Forum).

Here are a couple of quotes from two of the most respected Presidents of the United States:

"However combinations or associations of the above description [politcal parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion…
“Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.” - George Washington https://pileusblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/washington-and-the-spirit-of-party/

“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.” - Abraham Lincoln https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln’s_Lyceum_address

The question I pose to you, good reader, is this: Were they right? Why or why not? If yes, then what does the seemingly ever increasing polarization of US politics portend for the future of our nation, and how close are we to the fulfillment of this ‘prophecy’?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Hello all...first thread here (other than the one in the "Come and say Hi" Forum).

Here are a couple of quotes from two of the most respected Presidents of the United States:

"However combinations or associations of the above description [politcal parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion…
“Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.” - George Washington https://pileusblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/washington-and-the-spirit-of-party/

“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.” - Abraham Lincoln https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln’s_Lyceum_address

The question I pose to you, good reader, is this: Were they right? Why or why not? If yes, then what does the seemingly ever increasing polarization of US politics portend for the future of our nation, and how close are we to the fulfillment of this ‘prophecy’?

We're certainly experiencing the hyper-partisan malaise these men warned about, and it's being exploited and fostered for personal gain by men like Trump. If it isn't checked then other nations can and will use it to their advantage.

Can it be checked? Not so long as Trump is POTUS. Over and above his incompetence and self-absorption, it's increasingly clear he is compromised by ties to Russia.

 

[Snagglepuss]

We're certainly experiencing the hyper-partisan malaise these men warned about, and it's being exploited and fostered for personal gain by men like Trump. If it isn't checked then other nations can and will use it to their advantage.

Can it be checked? Not so long as Trump is POTUS. Over and above his incompetence and self-absorption, it's increasingly clear he is compromised by ties to Russia.

I agree that nothing will be done to fix this while Trump is POTUS, however, I tend to see Trump as more of a symptom of this hyper-partisanship than a direct cause. The question is, will Democrats perpetuate this 'arms race' once Donny is gone, or will people of both parties learn the correct lessons from this mess?

Personally, I think we will continue our descent into madness.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I agree that nothing will be done to fix this while Trump is POTUS, however, I tend to see Trump as more of a symptom of this hyper-partisanship than a direct cause. The question is, will Democrats perpetuate this 'arms race' once Donny is gone, or will people of both parties learn the correct lessons from this mess?

Personally, I think we will continue our descent into madness.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Enough Americans prefer emotion and revenge over reason and compromise, and as a result it doesn't profit either side to be the adult in the room. And yes, Donald isn't the brains behind this chaos, he's just an idiot with enough cunning to have successfully conned one side.

How he pulled that off when his lies are so ridiculously obvious is a thread worthy topic.

 

[Snagglepuss]

I'm inclined to agree with you. Enough Americans prefer emotion and revenge over reason and compromise, and as a result it doesn't profit either side to be the adult in the room. And yes, Donald isn't the brains behind this chaos, he's just an idiot with enough cunning to have successfully conned one side.

How he pulled that off when his lies are so ridiculously obvious is a thread worthy topic.

Indeed...

 

[armycowboy]

We're certainly experiencing the hyper-partisan malaise these men warned about, and it's being exploited and fostered for personal gain by men like Trump. If it isn't checked then other nations can and will use it to their advantage.

Can it be checked? Not so long as Trump is POTUS. Over and above his incompetence and self-absorption, it's increasingly clear he is compromised by ties to Russia.

Other nations are already using it to their advantage. And Trump is a symptom of the problem. The problem started decades ago when hyper partisan pundits started fanning the flames of partisanship to enrich themselves.

 

[Snagglepuss]

Other nations are already using it to their advantage. And Trump is a symptom of the problem. The problem started decades ago when hyper partisan pundits started fanning the flames of partisanship to enrich themselves.

This....very much this.

 

[armycowboy]

This....very much this.

So until people stop paying attention to these hyper-partisan pundits, the situation will not be checked in any appreciable degree.

 

[bongsaway]

Hello all...first thread here (other than the one in the "Come and say Hi" Forum).

Here are a couple of quotes from two of the most respected Presidents of the United States:

"However combinations or associations of the above description [politcal parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion…
“Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.” - George Washington https://pileusblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/washington-and-the-spirit-of-party/

“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.” - Abraham Lincoln https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln’s_Lyceum_address

The question I pose to you, good reader, is this: Were they right? Why or why not? If yes, then what does the seemingly ever increasing polarization of US politics portend for the future of our nation, and how close are we to the fulfillment of this ‘prophecy’?

We're doomed.

 

[Snagglepuss]

So until people stop paying attention to these hyper-partisan pundits, the situation will not be checked in any appreciable degree.

And do you see this happening? I don't.

 

[Snagglepuss]

We're doomed.

Unfortunately, I cannot disagree.

 

[bongsaway]

I'm inclined to agree with you. Enough Americans prefer emotion and revenge over reason and compromise, and as a result it doesn't profit either side to be the adult in the room. And yes, Donald isn't the brains behind this chaos, he's just an idiot with enough cunning to have successfully conned one side.

How he pulled that off when his lies are so ridiculously obvious is a thread worthy topic.

He played on their feelings of being a victim. Not long after he started campaigning, he was laying the groundwork to secure his base by portraying himself like them, a victim. The polls are rigged, the election itself is rigged, millions of illegals voting etc. etc. He was telling them, see I'm gonna' lose cause everything is rigged against the great patriot donald. And it just went on and on. He was a victim at christmas, all alone in the white house, he's a victim of this shutdown, he's a victim, nancy won't give him his way. And then all the red meat to convince the base what horrible people everyone that doesn't agree with him is. What a snake oil salesman.

 

[armycowboy]

And do you see this happening? I don't.

The demographics for these pundits tend to skew older, so it slowly is happening. Emphasis on slowly. Having Trump leave office would help a bit, but not come close to solving the problem, because he'll be tweeting continuously after he leaves office. Therefore, no. I don't see it happening.

 

[lwf]

I agree that nothing will be done to fix this while Trump is POTUS, however, I tend to see Trump as more of a symptom of this hyper-partisanship than a direct cause. The question is, will Democrats perpetuate this 'arms race' once Donny is gone, or will people of both parties learn the correct lessons from this mess?

Personally, I think we will continue our descent into madness.

I tend to agree, minus the hyperbole, that there will be a 'tat' for the current 'tit' sitting in the oval office.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Other nations are already using it to their advantage. And Trump is a symptom of the problem. The problem started decades ago when hyper partisan pundits started fanning the flames of partisanship to enrich themselves.

I think the partisanship problem became noticeable with Newt Gingrich. Exacerbated by the Tea Party.

 

[armycowboy]

I think the partisanship problem became noticeable with Newt Gingrich. Exacerbated by the Tea Party.

It became notable in government with Gingrich. In reality he was just taking a page out of the Rush Limbaugh playbook.

 

[Lycanthrope]

So until people stop paying attention to these hyper-partisan pundits, the situation will not be checked in any appreciable degree.

Absolutely. Idiots like Hannity and Carlson exploit the current situation for profit as much as Trump does. Until it enriches them more to oppose it they'll continue throwing gasoline on this dumpster fire.

 

[Snagglepuss]

I tend to agree, minus the hyperbole, that there will be a 'tat' for the current 'tit' sitting in the oval office.

I assume it is the "decent into madness" comment that you are calling out as hyperbole, yes? If so, you might be right, but personally, I see the continuation of the partisan politics that have so notably failed us over the years as a form of madness. You know the old saying...Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[lwf]

I assume it is the "decent into madness" comment that you are calling out as hyperbole, yes? If so, you might be right, but personally, I see the continuation of the partisan politics that have so notably failed us over the years as a form of madness. You know the old saying...Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Very true. It will be interesting to see whether it continues to get worse or if the younger generations get tired of it and demand a more measured tone in their elected officials. In any case, I agree that the next election will most likely be just as much of a sideshow as the last one.

 

[marke]

We're certainly experiencing the hyper-partisan malaise these men warned about, and it's being exploited and fostered for personal gain by men like Trump. If it isn't checked then other nations can and will use it to their advantage.

Can it be checked? Not so long as Trump is POTUS. Over and above his incompetence and self-absorption, it's increasingly clear he is compromised by ties to Russia.

'Irrefutable' examples of Trump's lies to Russia:

BuzzFeed saidso.
Hillary saidso.
CNN saidso.
Comey saidso.
Brennan saidso.
Clapper saidso.
Strzok saidso.
McCabe saidso.
Mueller saidso.
Maddow saidso.
Madonna saidso.
Weinstein saidso.
Schiff saidso.
Pelosi saidso.
Schumer saidso.
Lisa Page saidso.
Samantha Power saidso.
Wasserman-Schultz saidso.
Weiner saidso.
Blasio saidso.
AOC saidso.

And millions of others, no doubt.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

I agree that nothing will be done to fix this while Trump is POTUS, however, I tend to see Trump as more of a symptom of this hyper-partisanship than a direct cause. The question is, will Democrats perpetuate this 'arms race' once Donny is gone, or will people of both parties learn the correct lessons from this mess?

Personally, I think we will continue our descent into madness.

You stole the words out of my mouth on this one. I agree that Trump is a symptom, or a natural progression if you will, of where the party system has taken us. Couple it with entertainment conflated as news, the ever-growing hyper partisan divide, and general apathy of the populace to do anything substantive about it, and we are certain to self-destruct. The only question in my mind is when? Will it be in our lifetime? Doubtful. In our children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren's lives? Possibly. If some catastrophic event does not occur first, which would force us to face ourselves and realign for the betterment of the nation as a whole. And I don't foresee that occurring either.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

So until people stop paying attention to these hyper-partisan pundits, the situation will not be checked in any appreciable degree.

Agreed. But it has to be deeper than that. Paying attention is one thing. Heck, I pay attention to the hyper-partisan pundits on both sides of the divide. It requires intellectual curiosity and a willingness to stop being lazy, think for yourself, and delve beyond your preconceived notions, biases, and become educated. That requires work. And let's face it, most of the intellectually lazy in this nation refuse to engage in the arduous task of being self-informed. It's easier to allow someone to think for you.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

I think the partisanship problem became noticeable with Newt Gingrich. Exacerbated by the Tea Party.

Newt certainly made the politics of personal destruction a standard fare of the GOP playbook. Things did begin to change with him.

 

[armycowboy]

Agreed. But it has to be deeper than that. Paying attention is one thing. Heck, I pay attention to the hyper-partisan pundits on both sides of the divide. It requires intellectual curiosity and a willingness to stop being lazy, think for yourself, and delve beyond your preconceived notions, biases, and become educated. That requires work. And let's face it, most of the intellectually lazy in this nation refuse to engage in the arduous task of being self-informed. It's easier to allow someone to think for you.

These pundits are telling intellectually lazy people what they want to hear. If they're struggling, its not their fault. Its the fault of intellectuals/minorities/immigrants/elitists, etc. They're playing on peoples' prejudices to give them a way out of bad life decisions. It obviously works.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

These pundits are telling intellectually lazy people what they want to hear. If they're struggling, its not their fault. Its the fault of intellectuals/minorities/immigrants/elitists, etc. They're playing on peoples' prejudices to give them a way out of bad life decisions. It obviously works.

No doubt. They have found an easy market to profit off of. Scared people who are too filled with rage at their lot in life, or a hatred of the "other" whatever that may be, that they need their confirmation biases filled for them. And it definitely works. Look at the net worth of the big players that fool the gullible. But until these American listeners/viewers WANT to change, then it will never happen. When Limbaugh retires, the void will be filled.