President Zelensky of Ukraine accuses Germany of sacrificing Ukraine

[EnigmaO01]

Germany (along with many other European countries) sold its soul to Russia years ago when its energy policies became dominated by this delusional climate change alarmism. The government purposely destroyed their own energy independence by closing down nuke plants, natural gas production, and coal mines.

This is what happens when you give in to radicals.

Germany shut down it's nuke plants after the Fukushima disaster. And climate change being delusional and alarmist is your opinion.

The government did not "purposely destroy their own energy independence." From what I understand they were working on independence using renewable energy, but that doesn't happen overnight. No one as far as I knew predicted this move by Putin to invade Ukraine back then.

 

[EnigmaO01]

What is this "re-arming" nonsense? Germany has some 200,000 personnel on active service with over 30,000 reserves, some of the finest battle tanks in the world (Leopard), and an excellent air force. The Bundeswehr is the seventh most highly funded army in the world.

Bundeswehr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Maybe the "re-arming" refers to higher tech and quantity missile technology and anti-ballistic capability?

 

[EnigmaO01]

That remains to be seen.

As of right now, lots of German money is still flowing into Russia and is funding their war effort, despite the sanctions.

Germany doesn't have a choice presently. It's either that or shut down their economy.

 

[EnigmaO01]

reserves are actually at 900 thou' in total but the lion's share of those is not "on-half-call, as are the 30 thou' you mention.

But that's not the main issue.

Which is or was a disastrous purchasing policy in hardware or, rather than call it policy, a disastrous amount of incompetence when the whole field of "acquisition" was passed onto a federal office that has since buried itself in its own red tape,

As such Bundeswehr soldiers in Afghanistan had to buy their own digital walkie-talkies for improvement of internal communication, often enough had to see to their clothing (like underwear) and could not, at least initially, be transported by any air borne troop carrier, seeing how Germany lacked any such thing.

The helicopter fleet still spends more time in maintenance (repair) than in the air and the "Eurofighter" is hopelessly outdated.

The automatic rifle, due to domestic Heckler and Koch being favorised as supplier, was in the field for months before soldiers' reports finally leaked home that the damn thing was literally firing around corners, once subjected to a hotter climate.

Charges of corruption were squashed from the outset and never properly investigated.

None of which was, even before this envisaged financial shot in the arm, due to lacking finances but due to a clumsy apparatus that, in civilian fields, would take til high summer to supply the fuel one needed for one's central heating in the past winter.

Not all is good with the German army and reforms badly needed.

Sounds like they have impetus now to update and reform.

Never underestimate the Germans. Of course I am a little biased as one side of my family is German.

 

[PoS]

Germany shut down it's nuke plants after the Fukushima disaster. And climate change being delusional and alarmist is your opinion.

My views are based on fact. There is no proof that humanity is in danger due to climate change.

The government did not "purposely destroy their own energy independence." From what I understand they were working on independence using renewable energy, but that doesn't happen overnight. No one as far as I knew predicted this move by Putin to invade Ukraine back then.

Nope, the Russians and their German collaborators had planned this for years. Putin knew the Germans were stupid enough to fall for the climate change scam and helped to make the country dependent on Russian energy.

Socialist mercenary Gerhard Schroder championed Nordstream 1 and became a high ranking member of Gazprom, the Russian utility company after he left politics and made millions as one of their top executives. His successor, the Stasi she-wolf Angela Merkel, dismantled the country's energy sector. This was a planned well in advance. Putin wanted the Germans and other European countries loyal to him and they did just that.

 

[Juin]

My views are based on fact. There is no proof that humanity is in danger due to climate change.

HMMMMMM. This ought to be pasted on billboards around the world. Climate Change is always announced as heralding the apocalypse.

 

[EnigmaO01]

My views are based on fact. There is no proof that humanity is in danger due to climate change.

Sure you go with that. I can say the same thing. And we can go around and around on this.

Nope, the Russians and their German collaborators had planned this for years. Putin knew the Germans were stupid enough to fall for the climate change scam and helped to make the country dependent on Russian energy.

Socialist mercenary Gerhard Schroder championed Nordstream 1 and became a high ranking member of Gazprom, the Russian utility company after he left politics and made millions as one of their top executives. His successor, the Stasi she-wolf Angela Merkel, dismantled the country's energy sector. This was a planned well in advance. Putin wanted the Germans and other European countries loyal to him and they did just that.

Can you back that up with a link or is this opinion too?

 

[code1211]

Way, way beyond his reach.

In fairness, if a person is passionately consumed by any topic, humor seems inappropriate.

This could be such a topic for this poster. I felt a little bad after posting my comment.

 

[PoS]

Sure you go with that. I can say the same thing. And we can go around and around on this.

Can you back that up with a link or is this opinion too?

Of course I can, its right on their wiki bios:

Gerhard Schröder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Loading…

en.wikipedia.org

German ex-leader Schroeder nominated as director at Gazprom

Russian state-owned gas company Gazprom says German ex-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has been nominated to join its board of directors

abcnews.go.com

Germany to close nuclear reactors despite energy crisis

www.msn.com

Why Merkel chose Russia over US on Nord Stream 2

In the world of German energy politics, history really does repeat itself.

www.politico.eu

Putin wasn’t in Berlin last week to celebrate the agreement between Merkel and U.S. President Joe Biden to allow the second phase of the project — Nord Stream 2 — to move forward. But considering that the Russian is the main beneficiary of the deal, he may as well have been.

Merkel did call Putin, however.

“The Russian president praised the German side’s steadfast loyalty regarding the completion of this purely commercial project that is designed to strengthen Germany’s energy security,” the Kremlin said in a statement.

Schroeder, who led Germany from 1998 to 2005, developed a close relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin when he was chancellor. The 77-year-old already chairs the shareholders' committee of Nord Stream AG and heads the board of directors of Nord Stream 2, a new pipeline opposed by the U.S., Ukraine and some other German allies that has been built to bring Russian gas to Germany under the Baltic Sea but isn't yet in service.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Nordstream-2 is kaput.

Germany is going to stop shutting down reactors and buy oil/gas from Quatar.

 

[maxparrish]

K, strange though since Germany has supplied the Ukraine with 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger anti-aircraft defense systems to Ukraine. They have also put the Nordstream 2 project on the shell so what is he talking about?

Ahhh...but have they?

Tensions rise as Germany fails to deliver weapons promised to Ukraine​

Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of missiles pledged in response to Russian invasion, with many held up by red tape

Germany has failed to deliver its historic pledge to provide arms to Ukraine, ministers have said, amid reports that weapons have been held up by red tape and are too old to be used.
Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of the missiles it promised in response to the Russian invasion, with the lack of weapons causing increasing frustration inside Ukraine

It comes as Berlin failed to deny German press reports that it had delivered just 500 Cold War-era Strela anti-aircraft missiles, despite having promised 2,700.

Tensions rise as Germany fails to deliver weapons promised to Ukraine

Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of missiles pledged in response to Russian invasion, with many held up by red tape

www.telegraph.co.uk

Yep...more fake support. Zelensky looks to be spot on.

 

[Juks]

Ahhh...but have they?

Tensions rise as Germany fails to deliver weapons promised to Ukraine​

Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of missiles pledged in response to Russian invasion, with many held up by red tape

Germany has failed to deliver its historic pledge to provide arms to Ukraine, ministers have said, amid reports that weapons have been held up by red tape and are too old to be used.
Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of the missiles it promised in response to the Russian invasion, with the lack of weapons causing increasing frustration inside Ukraine

It comes as Berlin failed to deny German press reports that it had delivered just 500 Cold War-era Strela anti-aircraft missiles, despite having promised 2,700.

Tensions rise as Germany fails to deliver weapons promised to Ukraine

Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of missiles pledged in response to Russian invasion, with many held up by red tape

www.telegraph.co.uk

Yep...more fake support. Zelensky looks to be spot on.

I don't know were those figures come from. Germany promised 500

1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger anti-aircraft defense

Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid

Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.

www.politico.eu

I don't know but you seem to have something against Germany for some reason. Pre-war, the EU gave the Ukraine twice as much financial support as the US and the main contributor to the Ukraine was Germany.

Germany’s wide-ranging and long-term commitment to Ukraine

Germany is very keen to see a stable, democratic and economically flourishing Ukraine, which is why the German Government has provided the country with such a high level of support.

www.auswaertiges-amt.de

That they don't want and can't send their own citizens into a life without electricity should gowithout saying,. They have secured some gas from the US and have down
sixed their import accordingly. They are paying the double for the gas from the US compared to what they would have paid if they continued that import from Russia. Germany is also not the only country that still depends somewhat of the Russian gas. So is Poland and italy and then some. Poland has not bought any gas from the US to the double price. They have also not downsized their import of Russian gas like the Germans have.

 

[Juin]

I don't know were those figures come from. Germany promised 500

1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger anti-aircraft defense

Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid

Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.

www.politico.eu

I don't know but you seem to have something against Germany for some reason. Pre-war, the EU gave the Ukraine twice as much financial support as the US and the main contributor to the Ukraine was Germany.

Germany’s wide-ranging and long-term commitment to Ukraine

Germany is very keen to see a stable, democratic and economically flourishing Ukraine, which is why the German Government has provided the country with such a high level of support.

www.auswaertiges-amt.de

That they don't want and can't send their own citizens into a life without electricity should gowithout saying,. They have secured some gas from the US and have down
sixed their import accordingly. They are paying the double for the gas from the US compared to what they would have paid if they continued that import from Russia. Germany is also not the only country that still depends somewhat of the Russian gas. So is Poland and italy and then some. Poland has not bought any gas from the US to the double price. They have also not downsized their import of Russian gas like the Germans have.

Germany appears to be getting the short end of the stick.

 

[Juks]

Ahhh...but have they?

Tensions rise as Germany fails to deliver weapons promised to Ukraine​

Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of missiles pledged in response to Russian invasion, with many held up by red tape

Germany has failed to deliver its historic pledge to provide arms to Ukraine, ministers have said, amid reports that weapons have been held up by red tape and are too old to be used.
Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of the missiles it promised in response to the Russian invasion, with the lack of weapons causing increasing frustration inside Ukraine

It comes as Berlin failed to deny German press reports that it had delivered just 500 Cold War-era Strela anti-aircraft missiles, despite having promised 2,700.

Tensions rise as Germany fails to deliver weapons promised to Ukraine

Berlin has supplied just one-fifth of missiles pledged in response to Russian invasion, with many held up by red tape

www.telegraph.co.uk

Yep...more fake support. Zelensky looks to be spot on.

You also need to understand that after the cold war ended almost every european country downsized their military. We don't have that many weapons to spare to be honest. To give you an example. Sweden had over 1000 combat aircrafts in active duty before 1990. Al of them fueled and ready to go at any time. We now have 134....

 

[Juks]

Germany appears to be getting the short end of the stick.

Yes, and I really don't understand why.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Yes, and I really don't understand why.

Germany has so far failed to send Ukraine the war materials promised.

It has sent 500 outdated tank missiles instead of the 1,700 Javelin's that were promised.

Berlin says the delays are due to "red tape". Red tape? When Ukraine is facing an existential threat?

 

[maxparrish]

I don't know were those figures come from. Germany promised 500

1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger anti-aircraft defense

Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid

Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.

www.politico.eu

I don't know but you seem to have something against Germany for some reason. Pre-war, the EU gave the Ukraine twice as much financial support as the US and the main contributor to the Ukraine was Germany.

Germany’s wide-ranging and long-term commitment to Ukraine

Germany is very keen to see a stable, democratic and economically flourishing Ukraine, which is why the German Government has provided the country with such a high level of support.

www.auswaertiges-amt.de

That they don't want and can't send their own citizens into a life without electricity should gowithout saying,. They have secured some gas from the US and have down
sixed their import accordingly. They are paying the double for the gas from the US compared to what they would have paid if they continued that import from Russia. Germany is also not the only country that still depends somewhat of the Russian gas. So is Poland and italy and then some. Poland has not bought any gas from the US to the double price. They have also not downsized their import of Russian gas like the Germans have.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Rundown: Western Anti-Tank Weapons For Ukraine - Overt Defense

Since the Russian invasion began on 24 February, Ukraine has been promised a wide range anti-tank weapons. We break down which weapons the West has sent.

www.overtdefense.com

Germany at first promised 1000 anti tank weapons and 500 stingers.
Then Germany promised, several days later, 2700 weapons, 2000 of which were the soviet made stelas.

Clearly they have not come through.

I have nothing against Germany, I have a whole lot against the last two German governments.

 

[Juks]

Germany has so far failed to send Ukraine the war materials promised.

It has sent 500 outdated tank missiles instead of the 1,700 Javelin's that were promised.

Berlin says the delays are due to "red tape". Red tape? When Ukraine is facing an existential threat?

Ok, I have not seen any confirmation of that, but I take your word for it. Maybe they did not have it available? It was after all the politicians who gave the promise and they did it pretty quickly. As I said, Western Europe has reduced its military quite sharply since the end of the Cold War.

 

[Juks]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Rundown: Western Anti-Tank Weapons For Ukraine - Overt Defense

Since the Russian invasion began on 24 February, Ukraine has been promised a wide range anti-tank weapons. We break down which weapons the West has sent.

www.overtdefense.com

Germany at first promised 1000 anti tank weapons and 500 stingers.
Then Germany promised, several days later, 2700 weapons, 2000 of which were the soviet made stelas.

Clearly they have not come through.

I have nothing against Germany, I have a whole lot against the last two German governments.

Okay, you forced me to go into german sites (and my german is very very bad at the moment, haven't really spoken the language since my mother died 1990...) Quite an effort for me...

The promise was made on the 3rd of March.
There is a conflict between the politicians and the military organisation regarding these former russian equipments.

The military organisation says The STRELA missiles have been banned from use since 2012. In detail, the military organisation talks about micro-cracks in the ammunition's propellant charge and about mold on the packing boxes.

The political sides believes that such weapons can never the less help the Ukrainian to put pressure on the Russian air force.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The political sides believes that such weapons can never the less help the Ukrainian to put pressure on the Russian air force.

Why pawn off old and possibly defective weapons on a nation that is fighting for its very life?

That isn't right, nor is it moral to promise what you can't deliver.

 

[Juks]

Why pawn off old and possibly defective weapons on a nation that is fighting for its very life?

That isn't right, nor is it moral to promise what you can't deliver.

I don't know, but it is kind of obvious to everyone, including the Ukrainian that Russian made weapons are from former east Germany and at least made before 1989. I think it was an emotional respons to Zelensky's pleed for anything and everything they can spare, and in this case the military stood for the sensible side of things. As I said three times in this thread, Many countries in Western Europe has downsized and slimed the military significally since 1989 and we don't have "weapons to spare" lying around.

France and the UK are exceptions to this downsizing and I know that the UK has in fact send a lot of weapons, but what about France?

 

[Rogue Valley]

I don't know, but it is kind of obvious to everyone, including the Ukrainian that Russian made weapons are from former east Germany and at least made before 1989. I think it was an emotional respons to Zelensky's pleed for anything and everything they can spare, and in this case the military stood for the sensible side of things. As I said three times in this thread, Many countries in Western Europe has downsized and slimed the military significally since 1989 and we don't have "weapons to spare" lying around.

France and the UK are exceptions to this downsizing and I know that the UK has in fact send a lot of weapons, but what about France?

Then the German governmnet should have explained themselves. "Our Javelin's and Stingers are obsolete or we would send them".

Don't pledge weapons and then dummy up when you can't deliver.

And I find it difficult to believe that the largest economy in Europe can only scrounge up some spare helmets.

 

[Ginza]

I don't know but you seem to have something against Germany for some reason.

My guess is that the poster you refer to just wants Germany to keep its promises.

Germany initially refused to join the Swift Ban and has been enabling Russia for years by buying their power thus making the Russian economy stronger and making the Oligarchs richer.

It has refused requests by the USA, which date back to 2016, to increase its defence spending in line with the amount recommended by NATO. Only the USA, UK and a few of the smaller EU nations have met their obligation in this regard.

Germany's support of Ukraine before the invasion was so abysmal that they received worldwide criticism and even ridicule for their disgusting offer of only helmets.

 

[Ginza]

Don't pledge weapons and then dummy up when you can't deliver.

Well said.