President Zelensky of Ukraine accuses Germany of sacrificing Ukraine

[Chagos]

One of Zelensky's repetitive demands (also voiced before the Bundestag on Thursday) is for the establishment of a no-fly zone over Ukraine.

Since this would of necessity involve NATO jets either turning back Russian bombers over Ukraine or, in case Russian pilots show them the finger, shooting them down, this is simply not going to happen.

At the same time his equally repetitive demand for the EU to supply Ukraine with warp-speed membership is just as unrealistic. Giving such priority would understandably cause much of a ruckus among other "waiting" members, while Ukraine also continues to be unqualified, both on still persisting internal issues of corruption and the Donbas conflict within its state.

Where Zelenski is of course totally correct in, is his criticism of Germany's energy relationship with Russia in the past, serving to embolden all of the Kremlin shenanigans.

Notably the new German "traffic lights" coalition government, immediately after Zelensky's speech, prevented a debate over Germany's position on Ukraine in said parliament session by moving straight on to other matters such as Covid restrictions and their lifting or non-lifting.

Very much to the disgust of (not just) the conservative opposition.

IOW polite listening, followed by ignoring.

Bad! .

 

[Ginza]

Well, right now, Germany is the county that is paying the highest price in the west, due to the sanctions.

If so, then the Germans can only blame themselves for being dependent on a nation that Trump and Johnson were warning years ago was going to be troublesome in future.

And Germany has been the leading force in estabishing them due to suggesting and implementing sanctions that would hurt Germany the most

You are surely joking! It was Germany that was initially against the Swift sanctions and was sending only helmets to Ukraine when the UK and USA were sending to Ukraine what the Ukrainians really needed, that is missiles and training to use them.

Germany did so, knowing that most of the refugees will in fact want to go to Germany.

Really? how do you know that? The refugees are mainly women, children and the elderly. Surely they will want to return to Ukraine as soon as the war is over to reunite their families?

With the current shortage of labour in Germany, it is Germany's interests to do all it can to source another source of cheap labour for its industry?

But it is a more complicated and even bigger question than the war and the only reason I can think of that Zelensky makes such a speak now is to undermine Germany in the EU and thereby render Poland and some other countries more credibility in demanding that the Ukraine should get a shortcut into the EU.

Again, I think you are way off. Zelensky is only thinking of survival right now. Both for his country and himself. In any case, criticising Germany is certainly not going to endear him to the EU's most powerful state.

The EU has already shown a reluctance to let Ukraine become a member of the EU. No doubt the Germans don't want to upset Russia.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Whatever Germany's positions pre-invasion, the important facts now are that Berlin terminated the NS-2 pipeline, has sent planeloads of lethal weapons to Ukraine, has significantly increased its spending for defense, and will be accepting Ukrainian refugees.

I also want to say, and most people don't know this, that during the entire war in eastern Ukraine (since 2014), Germany has willingly and freely accepted very badly injured Ukraiinian soldiers that required complex surguries to survive and many months of post-surgery rehabilitation. 117 Ukrainian soldiers were medevaced under this program. Their destination: Bundeswehr army hospitals in Berlin, Hamburg, Koblenz and Ulm, all of which have surgeons with the know-how needed to treat extensive wounds. Germany has done this without fanfare and with no charge at all to Ukraine or its soldiers.

 

[code1211]

Yes. Germans are racially incapable of not invading people, right?

Seems like an odd topic in which you include Race.

Humor seems to be just a tad beyond your reach.

 

[code1211]

Having powerful armies can change one's posture. An armed Germany will also start making demands commensurate with its new power. Maybe Germany should be denied parole for the moment

Pax Germanica is a term rarely used.

Was it ever used?

 

[CaughtInThe]

it makes one wonder if any of us (if we were a leader of a country that was being bombarded) would try anything to save our people from slaughter.

 

[Rogue Valley]

it makes one wonder if any of us (if we were a leader of a country that was being bombarded) would try anything to save our people from slaughter.

By targeting civilians and food warehouses, Putin is intent on forcing a capitulation on Zelenskyy simply to stop the daily carnage.

 

[CaughtInThe]

By targeting civilians and food warehouses, Putin is intent on forcing a capitulation on Zelenskyy simply to stop the daily carnage.

this is gonna be a 10 year war.

 

[Chagos]

Pax Germanica is a term rarely used.

Was it ever used?

Just wait for that new German aircraft carrier that Germany will be forced into building by its recent ear-marking of 1 hundred billion Euros for the Bundeswehr.

They'll have no alternative but to sail it into the Se of Azov, seeing how they completely lack any domestic port that could harbor it.

For anyone lacking the understanding of irony............................here goes----------------->=

 

[Chagos]

Whatever Germany's positions pre-invasion, the important facts now are that Berlin terminated the NS-2 pipeline, has sent planeloads of lethal weapons to Ukraine, has significantly increased its spending for defense, and will be accepting Ukrainian refugees.

I also want to say, and most people don't know this, that during the entire war in eastern Ukraine (since 2014), Germany has willingly and freely accepted very badly injured Ukraiinian soldiers that required complex surguries to survive and many months of post-surgery rehabilitation. 117 Ukrainian soldiers were medevaced under this program. Their destination: Bundeswehr army hospitals in Berlin, Hamburg, Koblenz and Ulm, all of which have surgeons with the know-how needed to treat extensive wounds. Germany has done this without fanfare and with no charge at all to Ukraine or its soldiers.

Quite apart from (I'll copy and paste this from my post in another thread, rather than linking):

After the US, Germany has been the biggest contributor of financial aid to Ukraine of the past years.
€ 1.83 billion directly since the annexation of Crimea and, of the € 17 billion from the total of EU states, around € 4 billion as its part of the cake.
How much of that was invested by Kiey (Kyiv) into military hardware I dunno, but one would hope.

 

[Rogue Valley]

After the US, Germany has been the biggest contributor of financial aid to Ukraine of the past years.
€ 1.83 billion directly since the annexation of Crimea and, of the € 17 billion from the total of EU states, around € 4 billion as its part of the cake.
How much of that was invested by Kiey (Kyiv) into military hardware I dunno, but one would hope.

Well, Berlin didn't allow its financial assistance to be used for weaponry, but an army needs all sorts of things, from uniforms to truck tires.

 

[Ginza]

Seems like an odd topic in which you include Race.

Humor seems to be just a tad beyond your reach.

Way, way beyond his reach.

 

[Ginza]

Whatever Germany's positions pre-invasion, the important facts now are that Berlin terminated the NS-2 pipeline, has sent planeloads of lethal weapons to Ukraine, has significantly increased its spending for defense, and will be accepting Ukrainian refugees.

Which was only done after Ukrainians were already being killed by the thousand and world opinion had turned on Germany for their lack of assistance to Ukraine.

This article was written nearly a year before Germany was ridiculed by Ukraine, and most of the rest of the world for sending only helmets to Ukraine :

"Germany’s Ambiguity Toward Human Rights Weakens Europe"​

Germany’s Ambiguity Toward Human Rights Weakens Europe

As she nears the end of her last term as Germany’s chancellor, Angela Merkel should revert to toughening the EU’s stance on human rights. Making them subservient to trade and economic ties discredits the EU.

carnegieeurope.eu

 

[Ginza]

"UK largest bilateral humanitarian donor to Ukraine as UK, Canada and The Netherlands launch new Ukraine solidarity alliance"​

UK largest bilateral humanitarian donor to Ukraine as UK, Canada and The Netherlands launch new Ukraine solidarity alliance

A landmark solidarity pact launched by the leaders of the UK, Canada and the Netherlands will mobilise practical and sustained support for Ukraine.

www.gov.uk

 

[EMNofSeattle]

"President Volodymyr Zelensky accused Germany of sacrificing Ukraine to protect its own business interests in a hard-hitting address to the German parliament on Thursday. “We warned you. We told you Nord Stream was a preparation for war,” he said, referring to the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline with Russia, with Germany reliant on Moscow for more than half of its natural gas. “We were answered, it's a question of business. It's business, business, business.”

Zelensky is correct. Germany has yet again put its own financial interests before what is fair and just.

Millions in the UK must be relieved that they are no longer part of the German dominated EU.

What happens in Ukraine is of little concern to Germany. There is nothing inherently just about siding with Ukraine over Russia. People I know have been sold a narrative about evil Putler and good angelic Zelensky, but it’s a morally neutral conflict that doesn’t involve greater interests for the west

 

[EnigmaO01]

OK, strange though since Germany has supplied the Ukraine with 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger anti-aircraft defense systems to Ukraine. They have also put the Nordstream 2 project on the shell so what is he talking about?

I think he may be referring to their continuing purchase of Russian oil and gas?

I see both sides of this. Germany would be crippled if they suddenly cut that off.

 

[EnigmaO01]

I don't think anyone should be invoking the Holocaust.

As much as I support Ukraine, there are times when Zelensky's rhetoric is also rude. I understand he is desperate to do whatever he can to help his country but accusing other countries of not doing enough is just wrong. Most are doing so much to ensure Ukraine has money and military equipment, and risking lives to deliver humanitarian aid

I'm not willing to criticize him knowing the situation he is in. I would also be desperate and if being nice doesn't work than getting right to the point is his only alternative. You can't criticize him for doing everything thing he can for his country.

 

[EnigmaO01]

it makes one wonder if any of us (if we were a leader of a country that was being bombarded) would try anything to save our people from slaughter.

BINGO!

 

[EnigmaO01]

"UK largest bilateral humanitarian donor to Ukraine as UK, Canada and The Netherlands launch new Ukraine solidarity alliance"​

UK largest bilateral humanitarian donor to Ukraine as UK, Canada and The Netherlands launch new Ukraine solidarity alliance

A landmark solidarity pact launched by the leaders of the UK, Canada and the Netherlands will mobilise practical and sustained support for Ukraine.

www.gov.uk

But the UK is also still buying oil and gas from Russia became if they suddenly halted it they too would be crippled. They hope to be off the nipple by fall.

 

[PoS]

Germany (along with many other European countries) sold its soul to Russia years ago when its energy policies became dominated by this delusional climate change alarmism. The government purposely destroyed their own energy independence by closing down nuke plants, natural gas production, and coal mines.

This is what happens when you give in to radicals.

 

[snakestretcher]

Don't worry.

Germany is now re-arming.

What could possibly go wrong?

What is this "re-arming" nonsense? Germany has some 200,000 personnel on active service with over 30,000 reserves, some of the finest battle tanks in the world (Leopard), and an excellent air force. The Bundeswehr is the seventh most highly funded army in the world.

Bundeswehr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[code1211]

Just wait for that new German aircraft carrier that Germany will be forced into building by its recent ear-marking of 1 hundred billion Euros for the Bundeswehr.

They'll have no alternative but to sail it into the Se of Azov, seeing how they completely lack any domestic port that could harbor it.

For anyone lacking the understanding of irony............................here goes----------------->=

To be fair, San Diego and Pearl Harbor both required a few upgrades and revisions to harbor American Aircraft Carriers, too.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Germany (along with many other European countries) sold its soul to Russia years ago when its energy policies became dominated by this delusional climate change alarmism. The government purposely destroyed their own energy independence by closing down nuke plants, natural gas production, and coal mines.

This is what happens when you give in to radicals.

Germany has ordered the reversal of all of that.

You need to keep up.

 

[PoS]

Germany has ordered the reversal of all of that.

You need to keep up.

That remains to be seen.

As of right now, lots of German money is still flowing into Russia and is funding their war effort, despite the sanctions.

 

[Chagos]

What is this "re-arming" nonsense? Germany has some 200,000 personnel on active service with over 30,000 reserves, some of the finest battle tanks in the world (Leopard), and an excellent air force. The Bundeswehr is the seventh most highly funded army in the world.

Bundeswehr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

reserves are actually at 900 thou' in total but the lion's share of those is not "on-half-call, as are the 30 thou' you mention.

But that's not the main issue.

Which is or was a disastrous purchasing policy in hardware or, rather than call it policy, a disastrous amount of incompetence when the whole field of "acquisition" was passed onto a federal office that has since buried itself in its own red tape,

As such Bundeswehr soldiers in Afghanistan had to buy their own digital walkie-talkies for improvement of internal communication, often enough had to see to their clothing (like underwear) and could not, at least initially, be transported by any air borne troop carrier, seeing how Germany lacked any such thing.

The helicopter fleet still spends more time in maintenance (repair) than in the air and the "Eurofighter" is hopelessly outdated.

The automatic rifle, due to domestic Heckler and Koch being favorised as supplier, was in the field for months before soldiers' reports finally leaked home that the damn thing was literally firing around corners, once subjected to a hotter climate.

Charges of corruption were squashed from the outset and never properly investigated.

None of which was, even before this envisaged financial shot in the arm, due to lacking finances but due to a clumsy apparatus that, in civilian fields, would take til high summer to supply the fuel one needed for one's central heating in the past winter.

Not all is good with the German army and reforms badly needed.