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President says Islam is a religion of peace

Dittohead not!

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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]"Islam is Peace" Says President [/FONT]


THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a -- wide-ranging discussions on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks. And so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans and Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslims in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens. These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

Do you agree with the president?
 

Bootlace

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If it were it would be self evident and the president wouldn't need to try and convince anyone.
 

BitterPill

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If it were it would be self evident and the president wouldn't need to try and convince anyone.

Which one, Bush or Obama?
 

Captain Adverse

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The peace of a one-world religion.

Conversion by the sword where necessary, and maintenance of right-thinking and perfect belief by executing anyone who fails to adhere.

THAT kind of peace. :coffeepap:
 

Captain Adverse

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On Islam, I agree with Bill Maher.



Charlie Rose annoys me. He interrupts too much. Like he needs to hear himself speak to prove he is still alive. :coffeepap:
 

Glen Contrarian

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Well, seeing as how:

1. ALL stable Islamic nations have a homicide rate lower than America's, and

2. The terrorist attacks in the Middle East are almost all inside nations that are NOT stable, and

3. According to stats provided by the American Medical Association, Muslims in America are ten times more likely to become doctors than 'normal' American citizens...

...yeah, when compared to the baggage that all major religions (including "Christianity") carry over the centuries, YES, with that perspective, Islam is a religion that does value peace.

Y'all need to get a clue that right now - right now! - is the most peaceful time in recorded human history...so when y'all start doing the chicken little thing about the sky falling 'cause Islam, you need to bear in mind that nearly every corner of the planet is MORE peaceful today than it ever was.
 

polgara

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Based on world events, it would appear the understanding and/or interpretation of the fundamental tenets of Islam have changed.

Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:

It kinda, sorta, tends to maybe look that way, doesn't it? :mrgreen:
 

RetiredUSN

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Islam has about 109 verses that allow violence against another human being.

How many Muslims have condemned these verses openly on the world stage?
 

ocean515

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Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:

It kinda, sorta, tends to maybe look that way, doesn't it? :mrgreen:

:thumbs:

Perhaps, for example, the Sunni's and Shiite's haven't received the President's memo. Even on a local basis, they seem to have a rough time displaying all that peace when they are together in the same room....
 

Captain Adverse

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Well, seeing as how:

1. ALL stable Islamic nations have a homicide rate lower than America's,

Which "stable states" are you referring to? Does that include Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Qatar, and Maldives where Sharia Law applies in full and people can be beheaded or maimed for violations of religious prohibitions? Brunei where sharia law applies even to non-muslims? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country

2. The terrorist attacks in the Middle East are almost all inside nations that are NOT stable, and

Why would there be attacks by muslims in nations where their government is muslim? Unless the nation is divided between Shiite and Sunni (like Iraq), which causes this instability, there is no reason for conflict. :shrug:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia–Sunni_relations#/media/File:Madhhab_Map3.png

3. According to stats provided by the American Medical Association, Muslims in America are ten times more likely to become doctors than 'normal' American citizens...

Like discussing the price of tea in China, WTF has this to do with anything??? :confused:

...yeah, when compared to the baggage that all major religions (including "Christianity") carry over the centuries, YES, with that perspective, Islam is a religion that does value peace.

Y'all need to get a clue that right now - right now! - is the most peaceful time in recorded human history...so when y'all start doing the chicken little thing about the sky falling 'cause Islam, you need to bear in mind that nearly every corner of the planet is MORE peaceful today than it ever was.

NO! Islam was spread by the sword, or did you forget your history. As soon as it was halted in the far west at the Battle of Tours, the nations already converted from Granada through North Africa and the Middle East began to consolidate their gains "peacefully." Then with the Fall of Constantinople the Turks were able to advance without concern into Eastern Europe until the Battle of Vienna. As for the Far East? Muslim conquests persisted until the 16th Century in the Indian Subcontinent and the Steppes above the Tibetan Plateau.

There is plenty of "baggage" to share amongst militant Christianity and Islam. It is disingenuous to claim Islam is a religion of peace.
 
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Diving Mullah

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Islam is not a religion of Peace. Neither is Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism or any religion for that matter. Take Christianity for example....

for almost 500 years, they were shoving sticks up each other butt because one preferred Jesus left testicle and some other group preferred the right side. After a century killing, cutting each other heads, European decided, hey it is better to go find brown or non-white prope and shove sticks up their butts, then we formed a secular government and put laws in place that prevented stick insertion.

You take away our laws and our secular government, and Christian will be killing and cutting each other and others heads just as much as any other religion. Add poverty, despair, hopeless and a pinch of heavenly promise of eternal salvation and you will have Christian Taliban running all over the place, bringing death and destruction. How do I know, because it already has happened.

So nope Islam is not a religion of piece but neither is any religion.


Diving Mullah
 

Glen Contrarian

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Which "stable states" are you referring to? Does that include Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Qatar, and Maldives where Sharia Law applies in full and people can be beheaded or maimed for violations of religious prohibitions? Brunei where sharia law applies even to non-muslims? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country

Are those nations stable? Yes. My point stands. Just because that nation doesn't work the way that you and I would both prefer doesn't mean that it's somehow an unstable nation. Nor does it even mean they are tyrannies. It simply means that they work by different rules than we do...and if the homicide rates are any indication, their efforts at maintaining peaceful, orderly, and safe societies where the everyday citizen can prosper, we have little room to look down our noses at them.

Why would there be attacks by muslims in nations where their government is muslim? Unless the nation is divided between Shiite and Sunni (like Iraq), which causes this instability, there is no reason for conflict. :shrug:

The borders are rather porous as I'm sure you're aware...and if the Shi'a wanted to send terrorists into SA or if SA wanted to send terrorists into Iran, they could do that rather easily. What's more, there's tens of thousands of Shi'a in SA (who do face some persecution), and in the more cosmopolitan nations like Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, and Qatar, there are certainly both Shi'a and Sunni...and any number of members of the numerous other sects of Islam. My point stands.

Like discussing the price of tea in China, WTF has this to do with anything??? :confused:

You're well-educated and very well aware of the world...which means that you DO know how significant it is that in a discussion over whether Islam is a peaceful religion, that Muslims in America are ten times more likely to become doctors than are 'normal' Americans. You're not confused at all. You might be trying to dismiss the point in order to win the debate...but you do get the point.

I think I told you before that the one disadvantage of being well-educated and well-aware of the world around us is that we can't pretend to not get the painfully-obvious point. So...yeah, I'm calling you on this one.

NO! Islam was spread by the sword, or did you forget your history. As soon as it was halted in the far west at the Battle of Tours, the nations already converted from Granada through North Africa and the Middle East began to consolidate their gains "peacefully." Then with the Fall of Constantinople the Turks were able to advance without concern into Eastern Europe until the Battle of Vienna. As for the Far East? Muslim conquests persisted until the 16th Century in the Indian Subcontinent and the Steppes above the Tibetan Plateau.

There is plenty of "baggage" to share amongst militant Christianity and Islam. It is disingenuous to claim Islam is a religion of peace.

Did I say that Islam wasn't spread by the sword? No, I did not. I DID say that ALL major religions have plenty of baggage...or do I need to point out the atrocities committed in the Name of God by mainstream "Christianity" over the centuries, beginning with their ascendance to power in Rome? What's more, as I said in the previous post, every single stable Muslim nation has a lower homicide rate than America - and that includes the third-world nations Malaysia and Indonesia. If Islam were an inherently violent religion, this would not, could not be the case. Again, my point stands.
 
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Captain Adverse

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Are those nations stable? Yes. My point stands. Just because that nation doesn't work the way that you and I would both prefer doesn't mean that it's somehow an unstable nation.

Missed the point entirely. :roll:

You were comparing stability with lower homicide rates, ignoring the fact that most Muslim states are either dictatorships, monarchies, or theocracies. That those under sharia law can have their citizens killed or maimed for being gay, adulterers, or anytime some sharia law enforcer thinks the citizen is not adhering to some other point of sharia law. Also, not much liberty in most such "stable" nations either, sharia law or not, meaning laws are enforced fairly brutally at the hands of government law enforcement.

The borders are rather porous as I'm sure you're aware...and if the Shi'a wanted to send terrorists into SA or if SA wanted to send terrorists into Iran, they could do that rather easily. What's more, there's tens of thousands of Shi'a in SA (who do face some persecution), and in the more cosmopolitan nations like Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, and Qatar, there are certainly both Shi'a and Sunni...and any number of members of the numerous other sects of Islam. My point stands.

No, it doesn't. In most monarchies, dictatorships, and theocracies, there is no real freedom of the press. Just because you don't hear of any Sunni or Shia acts of terror does not mean none have occurred. It is where the divisions have created instability that we hear of such things, typically from the one side when the other does something they'd like to bring to the world's attention. :shrug:

You're well-educated and very well aware of the world...which means that you DO know how significant it is that in a discussion over whether Islam is a peaceful religion, that Muslims in America are ten times more likely to become doctors than are 'normal' Americans. You're not confused at all. You might be trying to dismiss the point in order to win the debate...but you do get the point.

Well, I could point out that it was a Muslim U.S. Army physician who committed a mass shooting at Fort Hood TX back in 2014, but that is as irrelevant as your unsubstantiated claim that "Muslims in America are ten times more likely to become doctors than 'normal' American citizens..."

Normal citizens? WTH does that mean?

Now try as I might I found no such AMA statistic. What I did find was this:
According to the American Medical Association (AMA), as of 2006, there were 921,904 U.S. physicians. The AMA does not report on the religion of its members.
FALSE: Muslim American Doctors and Shooters : snopes.com

But your point has no relevance even if it were true. It is a fallacy of equivalence; trying to associate a subset (Muslims more likely to be medical doctors) with the peacefulness of all members of said group.

Did I say that Islam wasn't spread by the sword? No, I did not. I DID say that ALL major religions have plenty of baggage...or do I need to point out the atrocities committed in the Name of God by mainstream "Christianity" over the centuries, including at least two centuries before Mohammed was born? What's more, as I said in the previous post, every single stable Muslim nation has a lower homicide rate than America - and that includes the third-world nations Malaysia and Indonesia. If Islam were an inherently violent religion, this would not, could not be the case. Again, my point stands.

Again, a false equivalency. If your sole basis for being more peaceful is the homicide rate, there are a number of nations Muslim or not, that are not as violent as the USA. Where are the national statistics for ALL violent crimes? Oh that's right; we don't know for sure because most Muslim nations don't seem willing to report these figures. You know, rapes, assaults, batteries, arsons, robberies, etc. Or report homicides honestly when they do report such figures. Got to keep up with appearances you know?

Democratic nations like ours are self-revealing because our citizens demand it. Trying to compare and contrast is a bit more involved than quoting available figures.
 
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Velvet Elvis

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Islam is not a religion of Peace. Neither is Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism or any religion for that matter.

When was the last time a Christian beheaded someone in the name of their religion?
When was the last time a Jew killed someone shouting "Yahweh is great!!!"
When was the last time a Baptist strapped some dynamite to himself and blew up a place?

Islam is a backwards, stuck in the stone age religion. Some Muslims just don't buy into 100% of it, kinda like Christians who don't go to church every Sunday. Regardless, Islam is a religion that hasn't evolved since the Crusades, which was....yeah...a violent time when people killed each other in the name of their religion.
 

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Guns don't kill people. Words in a book kill people.

No. Words in a book can motivate people to kill people. Ask any one of the billions who learned that lesson the hard way over the last couple millennia.
 

Deuce

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No. Words in a book can motivate people to kill people. Ask any one of the billions who learned that lesson the hard way over the last couple millennia.

Also motivating people to kill:

Money. Power. Food. Territory. Women. Men. Anger. Revenge. Skin color. Arbitrary political boundaries. Insanity. Infidelity. ****s and giggles.

The worst people in history didn't need a holy book. Sometimes they just write their own book.

I don't believe a holy book ever motivated someone to kill who wasn't going to do it anyway.
 
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