Pregnant woman walks into a bar: In NYC, you must serve her

[WCH]

NEW YORK
A pregnant woman shows up at a New York City bar and wants to go in and order a drink despite health warnings against consuming alcohol while expecting. Should the tavern serve her?

It’s against the law to refuse, under guidelines the city Human Rights Commission released Friday to help people interpret a 2013 city law. It centers on expansive protections for pregnant workers, but the guidelines also say mothers-to-be can’t be kept out of New York City bars or denied alcoholic drinks just because they’re expecting.

“Judgments and stereotypes about how pregnant individuals should behave, their physical capabilities and what is or is not healthy for a fetus are pervasive in our society and cannot be used as pretext for unlawful discriminatory decisions” in public venues, the new guidelines say.

snip

NYC bars must serve pregnant women, city says | The Star-Telegram

Some states have laws that allow authorities to bring criminal charges against women who use illegal drugs while pregnant or to detain expectant mothers whose heavy drinking poses a substantial risk to their unborn children’s health

Wouldn't have anything to do with RvW?

 

[cabse5]

Would a NY bar be in violation if they refused to serve an incredibly drunk person?

 

[WCH]

Would a NY bar be in violation if they refused to serve an incredibly drunk person?

New York Dram Shop Laws | LegalMatch Law Library

nope

 

[AtlantaAdonis]

Do these bartenders think they own pregnant women's bodies?

 

[cabse5]

Would a NY bar be in violation if they refused to serve an incredibly drunk person?

New York Dram Shop Laws | LegalMatch Law Library

nope

Do these bartenders think they own pregnant women's bodies?

I guess NYC doesn't think it owns the bodies of incredibly drunk pregnant women... who might drive (or walk), either:mrgreen:

 

[jimbo]

Interesting. I thought it was the barkeep's responsibility to not serve to irresponsible drinkers.

Can the pregnant women sue the establishment for harming the fetus?

 

[justabubba]

how is the bartender certain she is pregnant?

 

[justabubba]

does the cashier at the grocery store refuse to sell her cigarettes?

 

[WCH]

Looks like it goes back to the "right to privacy' argument.

BTW: not serving you regardless.

 

[HonestJoe]

Wouldn't have anything to do with RvW?

Nope, absolutely nothing at all.

I recognise it as a somewhat difficult area. There are professional differences of opinion regarding pregnant women drinking alcohol and also differences between formal advice (which is generally avoid completely) and actual evidence (small amounts are harmless and even potentially beneficial) because simple, unconditional guidelines are more effective.

I think some of the examples quoted clearly go too far – pregnant women being refused entry to bars or not being served alcohol at all (after all, they might be buying for someone else) and there’s the classic pitfall of misidentifying a woman who isn’t actually pregnant.

Other replies suggest NYC (like most places) does have general laws regarding the rights and responsibility for serving already intoxicated customers (though I think there are practical problems with how that works in general) and I think a pregnant women drinking heavily would (and should) fall under that but I think in general it is down to the personal responsibility of the woman herself.

 

[Gaius46]

Would a NY bar be in violation if they refused to serve an incredibly drunk person?

Apples and oranges. Laws against serving drunk people are primarily for DWI considerations. Doesn't apply to a pregnant woman.

 

[Henrin]

Everything that New York City is doing with anti-discrimination laws from pregnant women to transgenders is only providing proof that anti-discrimination laws create a sense of entitlement in people.

 

[Henrin]

If I don't want to be party to a pregnant woman damaging her unborn child the law should defend my opinion on the matter.

 

[Ikari]

NEW YORK
A pregnant woman shows up at a New York City bar and wants to go in and order a drink despite health warnings against consuming alcohol while expecting. Should the tavern serve her?

It’s against the law to refuse, under guidelines the city Human Rights Commission released Friday to help people interpret a 2013 city law. It centers on expansive protections for pregnant workers, but the guidelines also say mothers-to-be can’t be kept out of New York City bars or denied alcoholic drinks just because they’re expecting.

“Judgments and stereotypes about how pregnant individuals should behave, their physical capabilities and what is or is not healthy for a fetus are pervasive in our society and cannot be used as pretext for unlawful discriminatory decisions” in public venues, the new guidelines say.

snip

NYC bars must serve pregnant women, city says | The Star-Telegram

Some states have laws that allow authorities to bring criminal charges against women who use illegal drugs while pregnant or to detain expectant mothers whose heavy drinking poses a substantial risk to their unborn children’s health

Wouldn't have anything to do with RvW?

I don't.think it has anything to do with RvW, but a bar should be allowed to deny service to a pregnant woman.

 

[shrubnose]

Would a NY bar be in violation if they refused to serve an incredibly drunk person?

Do they have a sign that says: 'Free beer tomorrow'?

 

[Henrin]

Do these bartenders think they own pregnant women's bodies?

That's a really stupid question. Not assisting someone in harming their unborn children doesn't mean you think you own them. It means you don't want to be party to an action that will negatively impact the life of a defenseless human being. It means you don't want to be responsible for some birth defect that the child will have to live with for the rest of their life.

 

[Henrin]

Do these bartenders think they own pregnant women's bodies?

Does New York City think pregnant women own the bodies of bartenders? Do they think beer just goes into the glass and finds its way in front of the woman all on its own?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

This can be complicated. All the science points to the fact that consuming large amounts of alcohol during pregnancy can be harmful to the fetus and lead to complications after birth. However, there is little to no evidence that drinking small amounts of alcohol during pregnancy is dangerous. Likewise there is no hard evidence it is safe. In light of the lack of evidence I don't think a bar should be able to tell a woman she can't have a drink. Prohibiting excessive drinking is a different story. Of course, I think most private businesses should be able to refuse service for any reason they want, but then that isn't the law.

To people trying to connect this to abortion allow me to pose a little analogy.

It is illegal for me to go out into the middle of the woods and bury a landmine. Why? I'm not hurting anyone. Maybe there aren't even any people around for miles and nobody has past through that area in years. It is just sitting there. No person is currently being hurt by it.

But while no person is currently being hurt by it, a person COULD be hurt by it in the future. Hell, the person who is killed or maimed by it may not even exist yet. No, you aren't currently hurting a person when you set the landmine. But you are setting up a situation in which a person IN THE FUTURE could very well be hurt.

 

[Henrin]

So anyway, should children be able to sue their mothers that drank when pregnant? If so, do you they think they should be able to sue bars for providing them the alcohol? I think if your mother caused you serious birth defects that you should be able to sue them for it. I also think you should be able to sue anyone that helped them do it.

 

[joG]

NEW YORK
A pregnant woman shows up at a New York City bar and wants to go in and order a drink despite health warnings against consuming alcohol while expecting. Should the tavern serve her?

It’s against the law to refuse, under guidelines the city Human Rights Commission released Friday to help people interpret a 2013 city law. It centers on expansive protections for pregnant workers, but the guidelines also say mothers-to-be can’t be kept out of New York City bars or denied alcoholic drinks just because they’re expecting.

“Judgments and stereotypes about how pregnant individuals should behave, their physical capabilities and what is or is not healthy for a fetus are pervasive in our society and cannot be used as pretext for unlawful discriminatory decisions” in public venues, the new guidelines say.

snip

NYC bars must serve pregnant women, city says | The Star-Telegram

Some states have laws that allow authorities to bring criminal charges against women who use illegal drugs while pregnant or to detain expectant mothers whose heavy drinking poses a substantial risk to their unborn children’s health

Wouldn't have anything to do with RvW?

Why worry? She can have an abortion.

 

[matchlight]

Would a NY bar be in violation if they refused to serve an incredibly drunk person?

It certainly should be! Making judgments that invalidate any human being or give his or her inner child an owie is never acceptable!

 

[cabse5]

Apples and oranges. Laws against serving drunk people are primarily for DWI considerations. Doesn't apply to a pregnant woman.

What the...make sense.

 

[Gaius46]

What the...make sense.

Why does that not make sense? Laws dealing with bar liability for serving drunk patrons are all about accidents those same drunk people might cause. That justification does not apply to a pregnant woman. There's nothing hard to understand about that.

 

[justabubba]

yep, like the mcdonalds clerk should refuse to sell a greasy double cheeseburger to an obese person, not wanting to be the person causing them to have a heart attack
you are so onto something here
and so Constitutional, too ... being able to deny others what is and is not good for them to purchase - in your opinion

 

[cabse5]

Nope, absolutely nothing at all.

I recognise it as a somewhat difficult area. There are professional differences of opinion regarding pregnant women drinking alcohol and also differences between formal advice (which is generally avoid completely) and actual evidence (small amounts are harmless and even potentially beneficial) because simple, unconditional guidelines are more effective.

I think some of the examples quoted clearly go too far – pregnant women being refused entry to bars or not being served alcohol at all (after all, they might be buying for someone else) and there’s the classic pitfall of misidentifying a woman who isn’t actually pregnant.

Other replies suggest NYC (like most places) does have general laws regarding the rights and responsibility for serving already intoxicated customers (though I think there are practical problems with how that works in general) and I think a pregnant women drinking heavily would (and should) fall under that but I think in general it is down to the personal responsibility of the woman herself.

This is the right to privacy argument that could be made in less than 10 words (as I have done). Where's the right to privacy for incredibly intoxicated? For potential emphysema patients? Heck, for the anyone out of shape in any way which might raise the cost of health care for the government? I ask you, Michelle?