Pregnant Teens

[soot]

The studies you linked are from 1985.

The CDC site I linked had stats as recent as 2009.

On the left-hand side of the page there's a date filter.

Clinck on "Since 2012" or "Since 2013".

 

[sangha]

On the left-hand side of the page there's a date filter.

Clinck on "Since 2012" or "Since 2013".

I took a quick look and while they do show that obesity increases the chances of mortality (and other problems with pregnancy) I didn't see anything that suggested the increase in pregnancy-related mortality that we're discussing being primarily the result of increased obesity. In fact, I saw nothing that linked increases in mortality to increases in obesity

Do you have anything more specific?

 

[soot]

I took a quick look and while they do show that obesity increases the chances of mortality (and other problems with pregnancy) I didn't see anything that suggested the increase in pregnancy-related mortality that we're discussing being primarily the result of increased obesity. In fact, I saw nothing that linked increases in mortality to increases in obesity

Do you have anything more specific?

Not really that I have the time to hunt down at the moment.

I've read several articles discussing this that are freely available on the public Internet.

You can read this: Obesity Ups Risk of Death in Pregnancy (note that the "source for the article is Kavanaugh V, et al "Maternal mortality in Virginia: are obese women at higher risk?" SMFM 2012; published in a Society for Fetal Medicine supplement to the American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology).

 

[sangha]

Not really that I have the time to hunt down at the moment.

I've read several articles discussing this that are freely available on the public Internet.

You can read this: Obesity Ups Risk of Death in Pregnancy (note that the "source for the article is Kavanaugh V, et al "Maternal mortality in Virginia: are obese women at higher risk?" SMFM 2012; published in a Society for Fetal Medicine supplement to the American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology).

I have no doubt that obesity increases the risks of pregnancy. The issue is how much of a factor has the increase of obesity been in the increase of pregnancy related mortality.

 

[soot]

I have no doubt that obesity increases the risks of pregnancy. The issue is how much of a factor has the increase of obesity been in the increase of pregnancy related mortality.

We agree that obesity increases the risk of mortality during pregnancy (and there are numberous studies that tend to bear that position out through empirical analysis of facts).

I guess the next step is to come to an agreement that America is getting fatter.

In the early 1960s, the average American adult male weighed 168 pounds. Today, he weighs nearly 180 pounds. Over the same time period, the average female adult weight rose from 143 pounds to over 155 pounds (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1977, 1996). In the early 1970s, 14 percent of the population was classified as medically obese. Today, obesity rates are two times higher (Centers for Disease Control, 2003).

That's from an article titled Why Have Americans Become More Obese? from the Journal of Economic Perspectives written in 2003.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=J9n3tW_jgzvpU8TdSKVERw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.dmg

In 1990, obese adults made up less than 15 percent of the population in most U.S. states. By 2010, 36 states had obesity rates of 25 percent or higher, and 12 of those had obesity rates of 30 percent or higher.

Today, nationwide, roughly two out of three U.S. adults are overweight or obese (69 percent) and one out of three is obese (36 percent). While U.S. obesity rates have, overall, stayed steady since 2003, the rates are still rising in some groups, and disparities persist: Non-Hispanic black, Hispanic, and Mexican American adults have higher rates of obesity than non-Hispanic white adults.

That's from an article titled An Epidemic of Obesity: U.S. Obesity Trends from the Harvard School of Public Health website.

Harvard School of Public Health » The Nutrition Source » An Epidemic of Obesity: U.S. Obesity Trends

Now, if obesity poses a serious risk (I consider it a serious risk, anyhow) or maternal morbidity, and American women are getting fatter by the day, I think it stands to reason that a good part of the increasing rate of maternal morbidity can be laid at the dorrstep of obesity.

Likewise, there are a number of studies that indicate that cesarean delivery presents an increased likelihood of maternal morbidity. Here's one (the abstract, at least):

Even without trial of labor, women after primary cesarean delivery were 10.3 times more likely to develop endometritis (95% CI 5.9, 17.9) than after spontaneous vaginal delivery. The risk of transfusion was highest in women delivered by primary cesarean after labor, 4.2 times higher (95% CI 1.8, 10.1) than spontaneous vaginal delivery. The risk of pneumonia was 9.3 times higher (95% CI 3.4, 25.6) after repeat cesarean delivery with labor. Deep venous thromboses occurred in 15 (0.1%) after spontaneous vaginal delivery, 2 (0.04%) after operative vaginal delivery, and 12 (0.2%) after cesarean delivery.

That's from an article titled Maternal morbidity associated with vaginal versus cesarean delivery published in Obstet Gynecol in 2004.

Maternal morbidity associated with vaginal ve... [Obstet Gynecol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

You'll note that many of the complications that arise from c-section delivery (endometritis, pneumonia, venous thromboses) are cited in that CDC MPSS study that minnie616 provided earlier as being "classes" of conditions that are tracked as being involved in instances of maternal morbidity.

So I hope we can now agree that cesarean delivery increases the risk of maternal morbidity.

The following is from a website called Childbirth Connection: Childbirth Connection: Information for Women on Pregnancy & Childbirth

More recent studies reaffirm earlier World Health Organization recommendations about optimal rates of cesarean section. The best outcomes for women and babies appear to occur with cesarean section rates of 5% to 10%. Rates above 15% seem to do more harm than good (Althabe and Belizan 2006).

The national U.S. cesarean section rate was 4.5% and near this optimal range in 1965 when it was first measured (Taffel et al. 1987). Since then, large groups of healthy, low-risk American women who have received care that enhanced their bodies' innate capacity for giving birth have achieved 4% to 6% cesarean section rates and good overall birth outcomes (Johnson and Daviss 2005, Stapleton et al. 2013). However, the national cesarean section rate is much higher. After steeply increasing over more than a decade, it leveled off at 32.8% in 2010 and 2011 (Hamilton et al. 2012). So, about one mother in three now gives birth by cesarean section.


Here's the link (you'll note that the references are cited in the text): Why the National U.S. C-Section Rate Is So High | Cesarean Section

So getting back to the point I made initially, I don't know that there are any studies that difinitively prove that increasing rates of obesity and elective cesarean delivery are causing an increase in maternal morbidity rates.

But if it has been proven that obesity and cesarean delivery increase the risk of maternal morbidity to a signifigant degree, and it's been proven that rates of obesity and cesarean delivery have skyrocketed in America over the course of the last couple of decades, I think it stands to reason that there's a fair to middlin' chance that the increasing rates of obesity and cesarean delivery play a substantial role in what would appear to be a corresponding increase in maternal morbidity.

Can I prove that with cold hard facts?

I don't know.

Personally, I think the facts speak for themselves and you'd have to be, as I said, either overly politically correct or deliberately obtuse (or "something else") to not put two and two together.

But, no, I can't point to a body of acedemic and medical research and say, "Here. See? This proves it."

That said, I'm not in the business of proving these kinds of things.

I know that if my wife and I were still having kids I'd be encouraging her to not be obese or opt for an elective c-section.

You're welcome to make of all this what you will.

 

[sangha]

Now, if obesity poses a serious risk (I consider it a serious risk, anyhow) or maternal morbidity, and American women are getting fatter by the day, I think it stands to reason that a good part of the increasing rate of maternal morbidity can be laid at the dorrstep of obesity.

No, I don't think that stands up to reason. Certainly some portion of the increase is probably due to increases in obesity, but that does not imply that most, or even "a lot" is due to an increase in obesity.

wrt the rest of your post, it's just saying what we seem to agree on - that obesity increases the risks but we can't really say how much of the increase in mortality is due to an increase in obesity

 

[NoC_T]

I saw this very interesting discussion on a step-parenting thread, and thought it would do well here. The scenario that was laid out had to do with custodial parent vs non-custodial parent, but would apply to any parents of a young teen.

Please don't join in with "MY child would never do such a thing." **** happens.

Billy and Suzy got pregnant when they were fifteen, and had a baby at sixteen. They divorced at twenty, and have joint custody.

Fast forward. Billy married Andrea, and Suzy married Tom. Their daughter is Olivia, and she is now fourteen.

Olivia tells Billy she is sexually active. Billy tells Olivia she needs to tell Suzy, and she should start birth control immediately. He also calls Suzy and tells her the same. Suzy and Tom are Christian parents, and refuse. Olivia gets pregnant.

Suzy and Tom want Olivia to give birth and give the baby up for adoption. Billy hopes she'll abort, but tells her he will discuss all her options with her, and support her however he can. Suzy tells Billy that if Olivia keeps the baby, he will not only have to pay child support for her, but also for the upcoming baby.

If this were your teenager, what would you do? Would you let her make her own decision? Try to control her decision? Tell her you didn't sign up for another baby, and if she refuses to either adopt out or abort, you're removing her from your home?

Use your imagination.

I'd beat her, shoot her, stab her, poison her, set fire to her, electrocute her, run her over in a 12-wheeler, throw her off a cliff, throw her out of an aircraft, make her step on a landmine, throw her in a wolf pit, make her eat a pane of glass, spray bleach in her eyes and call her a naughty thing.

Then I'd respect her decision and assure her she had my full support; financial included.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

I'd just skip to the last bit

 

[SassySmartie]

I saw this very interesting discussion on a step-parenting thread, and thought it would do well here. The scenario that was laid out had to do with custodial parent vs non-custodial parent, but would apply to any parents of a young teen.

Please don't join in with "MY child would never do such a thing." **** happens.

Billy and Suzy got pregnant when they were fifteen, and had a baby at sixteen. They divorced at twenty, and have joint custody.

Fast forward. Billy married Andrea, and Suzy married Tom. Their daughter is Olivia, and she is now fourteen.

Olivia tells Billy she is sexually active. Billy tells Olivia she needs to tell Suzy, and she should start birth control immediately. He also calls Suzy and tells her the same. Suzy and Tom are Christian parents, and refuse. Olivia gets pregnant.

Suzy and Tom want Olivia to give birth and give the baby up for adoption. Billy hopes she'll abort, but tells her he will discuss all her options with her, and support her however he can. Suzy tells Billy that if Olivia keeps the baby, he will not only have to pay child support for her, but also for the upcoming baby.

If this were your teenager, what would you do? Would you let her make her own decision? Try to control her decision? Tell her you didn't sign up for another baby, and if she refuses to either adopt out or abort, you're removing her from your home?

Use your imagination.

Well dad will not have to pay child support for his grandkid. Olivia's babydaddy is responsible for that.

If this was my teen?

Well, I actually have teen daughters, [18 & 16] and they are very aware of their options, I support birth control, and would support a decision to abort if that was their choice. However, I have done a thorough job of educating both, and making birth control available. They also know that if a pregnancy occurs, and they choose to keep the baby, it will be their responsibility to raise, I am not raising any more children. The deal is they can live at home as long as they're working or going to school. That would stay the same.

 

[SassySmartie]

That's what I was wondering! I think he dropped the ball on that one. Take her for the shot, then no worries on refilled prescriptions or remembering to take the pill.

But then the other thing I was wondering, since I've never been through it: Do both parents have to agree, if they have joint legal custody? I don't know. I doubt it. I think a fourteen year-old can just come in off the street and ask for BC.

It depends on the divorce decree. Dad probably was nervous about doing it behind mom's back, I assume. Or she has primary custody. I'd have taken her behind my ex-husband's back.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

in the name of the sweet baby jeebus if any of you are the parents of a teenage female fer the love of gawd
birth control pills screws bigtime with the whore moans of any woman much less one going through puberty
I cain't imagine one would blithely say:
git er a shot n let her go at it like a minx
oh and don't fergit her papillomavirus vaccine pap smears and chlamydia, gonorrhea & syphilis checkups
aw that girl she's so modern

the baby daddy is as much of a louse as ol Billy generational ineptitude

 

[Mr.Nick]

I saw this very interesting discussion on a step-parenting thread, and thought it would do well here. The scenario that was laid out had to do with custodial parent vs non-custodial parent, but would apply to any parents of a young teen.

Please don't join in with "MY child would never do such a thing." **** happens.

Billy and Suzy got pregnant when they were fifteen, and had a baby at sixteen. They divorced at twenty, and have joint custody.

Fast forward. Billy married Andrea, and Suzy married Tom. Their daughter is Olivia, and she is now fourteen.

Olivia tells Billy she is sexually active. Billy tells Olivia she needs to tell Suzy, and she should start birth control immediately. He also calls Suzy and tells her the same. Suzy and Tom are Christian parents, and refuse. Olivia gets pregnant.

Suzy and Tom want Olivia to give birth and give the baby up for adoption. Billy hopes she'll abort, but tells her he will discuss all her options with her, and support her however he can. Suzy tells Billy that if Olivia keeps the baby, he will not only have to pay child support for her, but also for the upcoming baby.

If this were your teenager, what would you do? Would you let her make her own decision? Try to control her decision? Tell her you didn't sign up for another baby, and if she refuses to either adopt out or abort, you're removing her from your home?

Use your imagination.

Yes, if I was a parent I would certainly forgive my daughter or son and want them to raise the baby....

A living being is not a mistake ever......

Emotions and situations can be dealt with but not abortion.

Abortion is certainly not the answer....

 

[sangha]

A living being is not a mistake ever......

Idi Amin's mom is relieved to hear that

 

[Mr.Nick]

Idi Amin's mom is relieved to hear that

I'm sure Hitlers mamma was too...