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Preconceptions people have about the military in terms of sex and appearance

joko104

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I know nothing about the Navy. I specifically referenced the Army...as did the OP in the comment I responded to.

But...in order to be more clear and up to date on the issue, I looked up the current Army Retention Control Point (RCP) standards.




This is a change from what I recall the standard being almost 30 years ago and this standard has changed and is always subject to change as the needs of the Army change. Keep in mind that there are a slew of additional qualifications and conditions that can impact these standards to make them shorter or longer.

In any case, my original comment to the OP's remarks about "E3 career" stands.
I gathered from talking to them that each of the branches of service are very different. Personnel with exact technical/maintenance specific high specialized skills are in very short supply, so low rankers who do not climb for maybe conduct, promotional testing reasons etc still can be critically needed people. One even suggested a person can actually not receive a promotion because the promotion might result in losing the person to an at-the-time or particular base where they do not want to lose that person. Others are promoted in rank, but kept at the tasks of the lower rank - which is frustrating to such a person. Thus, becoming particularly capable and diversely rated is a double edged sword. It might earn promotions or might slow them down. Some probably are better at negotiating or dealing with officers or the military than others too.

From what I gather, for the AF the problem is not having equipment, aircraft etc - it is having the personnel and parts to keep them functional. For some aircraft, every hour of flight requires 10 hours or more maintenance and upgrading. When the AF trains personnel capable of such tasks, the private sector outbids them so many do not re-enlist - pushing those remaining hard. Possibly this could account for a rare 20 year E3? I don't personally know, only stories I am told. The circumstance may be different in other branches of service, other bases and other duty areas. I'm just repeating what I heard - best I understand it.
 

joko104

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Necessary personnel do have some negotiating power. My daughter was asked if she was planning to re-enlist and if not, then agree to an extension? The answer was no. Why? Career advancement. It is her nature that once she masters some skillset or knowledge set - she moves on to something else. She doesn't tread water in her life - extremely not. Her resume in life in extraordinary in that sense. When asked what it would take, the answer was to be on full time deployment and mission (excuse me if I get the terminology wrong.). For some of what she does, she is so obscurely but necessary specialized it's her nor nobody - plus a 6 figure income is in the private sector if she wanted it (she never would but won't say so - the military and what she does overall is just the current stage of her life - not her long term future). This creates negotiation power, but also burdens as the counter part to the benefit. This not only means higher pay but also better diversity in tasks and increasing her knowledge base and promotional opportunities - plus put her more in a command role. Since she is part of a team, she also was speaking for the entire team - without saying so.

It is fascinating listening to active military not only their tasks and experiences (what they can tell of it anyway) but also the society and culture of the military itself. It is its own world and one I know nothing about.
 

Mycroft

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I gathered from talking to them that each of the branches of service are very different. Personnel with exact technical/maintenance specific high specialized skills are in very short supply, so low rankers who do not climb for maybe conduct, promotional testing reasons etc still can be critically needed people. One even suggested a person can actually not receive a promotion because the promotion might result in losing the person to an at-the-time or particular base where they do not want to lose that person. Others are promoted in rank, but kept at the tasks of the lower rank - which is frustrating to such a person. Thus, becoming particularly capable and diversely rated is a double edged sword. It might earn promotions or might slow them down. Some probably are better at negotiating or dealing with officers or the military than others too.

From what I gather, for the AF the problem is not having equipment, aircraft etc - it is having the personnel and parts to keep them functional. For some aircraft, every hour of flight requires 10 hours or more maintenance and upgrading. When the AF trains personnel capable of such tasks, the private sector outbids them so many do not re-enlist - pushing those remaining hard. Possibly this could account for a rare 20 year E3? I don't personally know, only stories I am told. The circumstance may be different in other branches of service, other bases and other duty areas. I'm just repeating what I heard - best I understand it.
As I said, I don't know about other branches of the military. Perhaps, in your comment that I initially responded to, you should not have specified "Army".

In any case, I seriously doubt that any branch will allow an E3 who is " filing personnel records " to make that their career...no matter HOW well they've mastered the task.
 

joko104

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As I said, I don't know about other branches of the military. Perhaps, in your comment that I initially responded to, you should not have specified "Army".

In any case, I seriously doubt that any branch will allow an E3 who is " filing personnel records " to make that their career...no matter HOW well they've mastered the task.
Again, just on what I heard, if someone has a needed technical skill - for example electronics, computers or aircraft maintenance - misconduct, poor promotional tests etc, or even demotions - might keep such a person in. THE challenge to the AF is keeping them flying. It is a SERIOUS problem - very. I was told for some foreign bases those of the base will list their BEST and most needed aircraft as non-serviceable so other bases can't take them. Maybe this also applies to other branches of service as will for equipment specialists. I would think it would for all branches to some degree. But remaining an E3 in infantry or as a bookkeeper isn't going to happen.

For example, the military trains someone to work on aircraft - particularly heavies - for years - and when re-enlistment comes up the private sector - either civilian airlines or the defense contracting industry - is offering them twice the salary and stable state-side residency allowing buying a home, having a family, coming home for dinner, weekends off etc. Whether there is some minimal rank to relist all the way to retirement or not? I don't know.

Specifically, I was told one person retired at 20 as an E3. Another E3 switched to active reserve and came back doing the same tasks out of uniform as a defense contractor employee as $80K. The inability to keep aircraft flying is approaching crisis level. The more maintenance and upgrading is put off, the more missions that are canceled and the more crashes there are. We also service many other county's aircraft and equipment. I would think this also applies to other equipment - tanks, drones, missiles, computers, satellites etc.

The military trains people to have highly technical skills - but then can't compete with wages and life-style stability the private sector offers - meaning when a person becomes a true expert they don't re-enlist. This piles the work on those who do. Since some officers treat enlisted like dirt under their feet - where those enlisted might be far more critical to missions than those same officers, a sense of bitterness and lack of appreciation also causes non re-enlistment, not willing to put up with being treated like dirt or being worked to death in endless double shifts and called in at all hours. Same for officers of technical skills and ratings - even more so and particularly if high security ratings (desired by the defense industry).
 
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joko104

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I take it back about ex-Navy. One young fella I know who was Navy commented he learned nothing marketable in the private sector. "There aren't a lot of job out there for people trained to watch for Russian submarines." LOL
 

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Grunts talk about being the pointy end of the spear. Officers do not. Never heard anyone in the AF use that phrase about themselves either.

I gather by your messages you were "remotely close to (being) the pointy end of the spear" in the past.

"Thank you for your service."
I think it is “Pointy end of the pitot tube!”

BTW, I have a granddaughter that just got out of Army basic. Heading to Korea in a clerical slot!
 

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You think of the military in WW2 standards.

Technology rules now. Virtually everything the military does now is dependent entirely on brains, geeks, technicians, exorbitantly complex and maintenance dependent equipment.

One of the military people who works of military aircraft told of an OLD retired colonel going ballistic when someone was talking to someone else about the "ram" in an aircraft. The old male colonel kept ranting that there is no "ram" in aircraft. He flew in every aircraft there was in the Korean war and they didn't have "ram!" He went on and on until another active duty high ranker told him to knock it off because he doesn't what the hell he's talking about. The American military can get 10 times as many pack mule grunts then it needs.

You think battles are decided by which side's personnel can carry heavier rucksacks. Therefore, there are only G.I. Joes, no G.I. Janes. If a sniper team, special ops team, or drone were sent after you, you have very little chance of survival. If my G.I. Jane's team (not a G.I.s at all) were assigned to take you out, you have 0% chance of survival. They will find you anywhere in the world. Doesn't matter where you are - cave, bunker, crowded city - you die. 100% of the time. That you can not accept such possibility by women - or men that couldn't run far with a rucksack to save their lives - just means you are like that old ignorant colonel stuck half a century in the past.

The USA's military superiority is not in our ground troops contrary to your foolishness. On average, some foreign military's ground troops are probably much tougher because they are trained brutally. Failing PT in the USA might hold you back or at worse result in being booted out. Breaking a piece of equipment recklessly probably will get a reprimand. In the military of some other countries the same is punished by being beaten to death. Our military is superior because of technology - including technology we time to time take into the theater of battle on the ground and in the air (and even in space - only nuclear weapons are prohibited by treaty from space - any other weaponry in space is not banned. The battle between the USA and China for military dominance is a space race - NOW - not just in the future. China attacks our space assets every day. But topics like that might as well be in the Chinese language to an old man stuck in ancient history. Keep living your glorious past running with a rucksack)
No I think of the military and how it fights wars currently. As that is the military I am currently serving in and the multiple trips I have made down range. You thoughts are based on the fictional silliness that runs through your head and no basis in reality.
You have no idea what rules and what doesn’t as you have zero clue about how the military actually operates. And you prove that over and over again.
And it’s funny you trying to come up with what I think. It just goes further to prove how clueless you are on this topic. If that’s even possible.
But it is good to see that you knowledge about foreign militaries is as nonexistent as that of the US military. Good job staying consistent
 
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braindrain

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Obviously.

Army? Some people make a career out of being an E3, mastering filing personnel records.
It’s clearly not obvious to you as you thought I was in the Air Force. But then you have no idea about the military so it’s not surprising.
And it’s good seeing you continue you to be wrong as much as possible.
I made 7 in 7 years which is as fast as the army regs allow and am currently serving as an acting E8 and have been for the last 14 months with every expectation to make the E8 list later this year.
But then if you were not just making stuff up you would have nothing to say.
 

joko104

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It’s clearly not obvious to you as you thought I was in the Air Force. But then you have no idea about the military so it’s not surprising.
And it’s good seeing you continue you to be wrong as much as possible.
I made 7 in 7 years which is as fast as the army regs allow and am currently serving as an acting E8 and have been for the last 14 months with every expectation to make the E8 list later this year.
But then if you were not just making stuff up you would have nothing to say.
Congrats on your enlisted rank.

Each branch of service is different and the roles within each are different. Your messages seem to indicate that your activities and duties in the Army do not involve technological research and development, is not in the area of science and technology, and does not involve billion dollar plus prototype assets unknown to the public. Nor that you directly and personally interact on design and development with defense contractors. My kid is a super brainiac who came into the military from full scholarship attendance at one of the nation's top science and technology universities and had been internationally published in scientific journals including for her protocol studies.

Not to be disparaging, I doubt that is your history and who you were when you signed up. This is not to trivialize your service. Rather, you seem to think all of the military branches and everyone in it operates identically. They do not.
 

braindrain

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Congrats on your enlisted rank.

Each branch of service is different and the roles within each are different. Your messages seem to indicate that your activities and duties in the Army do not involve technological research and development, is not in the area of science and technology, and does not involve billion dollar plus prototype assets unknown to the public. Nor that you directly and personally interact on design and development with defense contractors. My kid is a super brainiac who came into the military from full scholarship attendance at one of the nation's top science and technology universities and had been internationally published in scientific journals including for her protocol studies.

Not to be disparaging, I doubt that is your history and who you were when you signed up. This is not to trivialize your service. Rather, you seem to think all of the military branches and everyone in it operates identically. They do not.
The difference is your little stories are made up while I am telling you what is reality.

You have no idea how any branch operates and you have even less knowledge of how wars are currently being fought.
Little clue for you. The people who design and build prototypes are not the same people who take them down range and use them. It’s why all your silly little stories about your kid being this GI Jane / brilliant designer are complete and utter horse shit. And hate to tell you this but if you daughter really was involved in this super secret research she wouldn’t be telling you. Any one who talks about secret information on the internet really doesn’t know anything secret.
 

joko104

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The difference is your little stories are made up while I am telling you what is reality.

You have no idea how any branch operates and you have even less knowledge of how wars are currently being fought.
Little clue for you. The people who design and build prototypes are not the same people who take them down range and use them. It’s why all your silly little stories about your kid being this GI Jane / brilliant designer are complete and utter horse shit. And hate to tell you this but if you daughter really was involved in this super secret research she wouldn’t be telling you. Any one who talks about secret information on the internet really doesn’t know anything secret.
Reality is easy to tell when there is nothing to tell. People who do nothing know nothing. What you know about technological development is exactly nothing.

I was trying to be polite to someone who basically is a nobody in the military and has a truly ignorant view of what constitutes military security secrets and what does not. I've never mentioned anything that falls into the category of classified info nor do I have any. But, then, you've never been trusted with any national security secrets. How to make a bunk and shine shoes aren't classified information. Did you even graduate from high school? GED?

I've commented before she often R&Rs and engages in off base outings with Marines. Never with Army. Army is the branch for those lacking the brains for the AF and Navy and physically can't handle being in the Marines - not to be disparaging against those in the Army of course.
 
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braindrain

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Reality is easy to tell when there is nothing to tell. People who do nothing know nothing. What you know about technological development is exactly nothing.

I was trying to be polite to someone who basically is a nobody in the military and has a truly ignorant view of what constitutes military security secrets and what does not. I've never mentioned anything that falls into the category of classified info nor do I have any. But, then, you've never been trusted with any national security secrets. How to make a bunk and shine shoes aren't classified information. Did you even graduate from high school? GED?

I've commented before she often R&Rs and engages in off base outings with Marines. Never with Army. Army is the branch for those lacking the brains for the AF and Navy and physically can't handle being in the Marines - not to be disparaging against those in the Army of course.
Oh look. Getting all butt hurt and lashing out because your BS got called out. How sad.
And just too show how little you know I have my bachelors degree from the UNL that I earned before I ever joined the military. And it’s rather clear the Army disagrees with you when it comes to my service. Not only do I have a TS clearance but I am in one of the highest bonus categories in the US military.

And I never said you mentioned classified information. What I said and what is true is that those who brag on the internet or to their parents about working on top secret projects are not involved in anything secret

At the end of the day anyone who has spent any real time in the military can smell your BS a mile away. Before trying to push lies of as fact you should actually have at last the most basic grasp
of the topic. Which you clearly don’t.
 

joko104

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Oh look. Getting all butt hurt and lashing out because your BS got called out. How sad.
And just too show how little you know I have my bachelors degree from the UNL that I earned before I ever joined the military. And it’s rather clear the Army disagrees with you when it comes to my service. Not only do I have a TS clearance but I am in one of the highest bonus categories in the US military.

And I never said you mentioned classified information. What I said and what is true is that those who brag on the internet or to their parents about working on top secret projects are not involved in anything secret

At the end of the day anyone who has spent any real time in the military can smell your BS a mile away. Before trying to push lies of as fact you should actually have at last the most basic grasp
of the topic. Which you clearly don’t.
Your declaring that no one who works on military technological development ever "goes down field" proves your messages are nonsensical and ignorant. It is that simple. But, then, how would you know either way?

It takes a lot of effort/failure to join the Army with a bachelors degree not being offered an officer's commission. The enlisted bonus category is for the degree, not superiority.

A person with TS clearance could be a janitor at a TS facility or where there are TS activities. The personnel who does no more than empty the toilet on Air Force One will have a Yankee White TS clearance, as example. Virtually anyone who does anything in the military of any significance - or is around others doing tasks of significance - has TS info as does almost anyone who has been on missions, which generally by definition are TS as to specifics. TS clearance by itself means next to nothing.

As I stated, it will take a couple of generations for the military to be rid of dinosaurs such as you indicate you are in your messages.
 

joko104

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One other difference is that I don't claim to know what I don't - and you claim to know everything including what you know nothing about. That's called "a wannabe" pretending that you are what you want to be but aren't and can't.
 

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One other difference is that I don't claim to know what I don't - and you claim to know everything including what you know nothing about. That's called "a wannabe" pretending that you are what you want to be but aren't and can't.
Well that’s a lie because you are in here talking about anything that has to do with the military which you are clearly clueless on.
What you do is you make crap up and do to your complete lack of knowledge of how the military operates it’s painful clear
 

braindrain

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Your declaring that no one who works on military technological development ever "goes down field" proves your messages are nonsensical and ignorant. It is that simple. But, then, how would you know either way?

It takes a lot of effort/failure to join the Army with a bachelors degree not being offered an officer's commission. The enlisted bonus category is for the degree, not superiority.

A person with TS clearance could be a janitor at a TS facility or where there are TS activities. The personnel who does no more than empty the toilet on Air Force One will have a Yankee White TS clearance, as example. Virtually anyone who does anything in the military of any significance - or is around others doing tasks of significance - has TS info as does almost anyone who has been on missions, which generally by definition are TS as to specifics. TS clearance by itself means next to nothing.

As I stated, it will take a couple of generations for the military to be rid of dinosaurs such as you indicate you are in your messages.
What I am claiming is that the people who work on developing new technologies don’t go to war use that technology to kill people. And that’s the way it is. You have been reading to many military fantasy books. The fact that you don’t realize just how laughable stupid that idea would be just shows how little you know about the actual military. Here let me give you a couple clues. The vast vast majority of new technology development is not done by the military by defense companies and second training to go to combat is a full time job and the same as working in the tech development world. The military is not wasting their time teaching them how to do both. It’s stupid and wasteful and all you have at the end is tech people who are spending less time doing their actual job to be a poorly trained combat soldier. But then if you had any knowledge of the military you would see why that is such a dumb idea.

And here you are proving you know nothing about the military all over again. There are a ton of enlisted people with bachelors degrees. Only 1 of the 8 NCOs on my team don’t have theirs. And my bonus has nothing to do with my degree. It has to do with who I am and the job I do. Thanks again for proving you have no idea what you are talking about.

And it’s obvious your knowledge of military and it’s security clearances is just as lacking as the rest of your knowledge on the military.The vast majority of the missions that the military does have nothing to do with top secret classifications. Even the majority of operations that most of SOF conducts are not at the TS level. But then as constantly wrong as you have been on every thing related to the military I would be surprised to not see that trend continue. So thanks for not letting me down.
 

joko104

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Your ranting began back when I was posting about who probably is one of the most decorated Marine squad leaders to serve in Afghanistan at the height of ground combat - other than those honored who were gravely wounded and killed. He is one of those rare extraordinary people in the military - but then he was an extraordinary person before he joined. The military can train people, but can not change a person's basic nature and limitations on either an intellectual or self-definition personality level. The vast majority of people are sheep. A few are leaders. Some of those are also wolves.

You ranted on and on that no one could ever do what his squad did nor ever would be allowed to - with it clear who doesn't know jackshit about what you are posting is you - as if you have a clue what a ground Marine combat squad would or should do in combat in the Heldman District of Afghanistan. Only frustrated men rant on and on about others who have accomplished things they never have, would or could do themselves. But not everyone in the military is generically irrelevant.

By your messages, you are a person certain that everyone in the military is as you are - just a living cog in military machinery. In your entire military career, have you ever defied or significantly challenged a CO's orders? Ever put yourself on the firing line to do so?

I can not recall if you ever posted why you are so bitter towards others who are highly successfully in the military. Did you?
Well that’s a lie because you are in here talking about anything that has to do with the military which you are clearly clueless on.
What you do is you make crap up and do to your complete lack of knowledge of how the military operates it’s painful clear
I didn't expect you to answer because you have no answer. I'm not even posting "about how the military functions" and am certain an Army E7 doesn't either.

I read you talking about yourself in the military on another thread. It explains your ignorant personal attacks. A very frustrated man in the military who years later is still fixated on the weight of his ruck sack, regretting his career decisions and lashing out at those who are highly motivated people - and successful because of such a personality trait.

Your ranting began when I posted about a Marine we know who was a squad leader in the Helmand District in Afghanistan at the height of the ground fighting. You rant against against anyone who actually DID anything of significance in the military, because by your own messages you haven't. In fact, the ONLY thing you post on military topics is posting about yourself - trivialities - and it is clearly your opinion that no woman should be in the military and certainly not in combat, always only referring to the "guys."

You posted one thing accurate. If a person is into technical matters join the AF, not the Army. What an Army E7 knows about AF technology and development is described in one word: NOTHING. These are all topics you know absolutely nothing about - just like you know nothing about Marine squad leaders in independent missions combat.

Candidly, I am posting on topics above your pay grade and entirely outside your duty areas in the military. A difference between you and I posting on military topics is that your involvement in the military is so trivial all you can do is attack others. I don't stalk you around the military forum making attacking you. I do not pretend I know what I don't, unlike you. I am not insecure about my life so don't need to attack others to feel good about myself.
 

joko104

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What I am claiming is that the people who work on developing new technologies don’t go to war use that technology to kill people. And that’s the way it is. You have been reading to many military fantasy books. The fact that you don’t realize just how laughable stupid that idea would be just shows how little you know about the actual military. Here let me give you a couple clues. The vast vast majority of new technology development is not done by the military by defense companies and second training to go to combat is a full time job and the same as working in the tech development world. The military is not wasting their time teaching them how to do both. It’s stupid and wasteful and all you have at the end is tech people who are spending less time doing their actual job to be a poorly trained combat soldier. But then if you had any knowledge of the military you would see why that is such a dumb idea.

And here you are proving you know nothing about the military all over again. There are a ton of enlisted people with bachelors degrees. Only 1 of the 8 NCOs on my team don’t have theirs. And my bonus has nothing to do with my degree. It has to do with who I am and the job I do. Thanks again for proving you have no idea what you are talking about.

And it’s obvious your knowledge of military and it’s security clearances is just as lacking as the rest of your knowledge on the military.The vast majority of the missions that the military does have nothing to do with top secret classifications. Even the majority of operations that most of SOF conducts are not at the TS level. But then as constantly wrong as you have been on every thing related to the military I would be surprised to not see that trend continue. So thanks for not letting me down.
 

joko104

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What I am claiming is that the people who work on developing new technologies don’t go to war use that technology to kill people. And that’s the way it is. You have been reading to many military fantasy books. The fact that you don’t realize just how laughable stupid that idea would be just shows how little you know about the actual military. Here let me give you a couple clues. The vast vast majority of new technology development is not done by the military by defense companies and second training to go to combat is a full time job and the same as working in the tech development world. The military is not wasting their time teaching them how to do both. It’s stupid and wasteful and all you have at the end is tech people who are spending less time doing their actual job to be a poorly trained combat soldier. But then if you had any knowledge of the military you would see why that is such a dumb idea.
That is so ignorant it doesn't merit comment.

The military literally can not train people to have highly developed and specialized organic (natural) gifts. Not in a thousands years. It would be impossible to train anyone to do what my daughter can do. It would be impossible to train her to do what other brainiacs/techno/science/engineering/electronics on the team do. There is no reason to train them to do conventional relevant missions tasks. I had posted how before a composite diverse team was assembles usage of _______________ was lethally disastrous. They are not developing new design rifle magazines and ruck sacks.

By your attacking ranting messages you appear incapable of grasping the concept that a diverse skills and knowledge set team is greater than the collection of individuals.

All your ranting does is your trying to compensation being unable to post of any significant events in your military history. I read your describing yourself in the military and all of this is beyond your duty areas and pay grade. Your ranting in your messages demonstrates a level of pigheadedness that should no longer be tolerated in the military, plus your clear misogynistic attitude towards women in the military, particularly combat. As I stated, it will take 2 generations for the military to be rid of men of the attitudes of your messages on military topics.

It was funny you posting that someone in the military for 3 years knows nothing about the military, but also then claim that in 7 years as now an E7 you know everything there is about everything every branch of the military does.
 

joko104

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Try reading this thread if you can't grasp still another value in having designers and those involved in development being personally involved in actual usage.


Some time ago I told of how a heavy aircraft was stranded end of runaway coming under attack - unable to take off as the pilots struggled with the switches and gauges and otherwise the electronics trying to figure what the hell was the problem. It took the design team aboard to get it off and out of there before the runway was turned into a collection of mortar crater holes - though none are pilots.

Though a different topic, I was told some military heavies such as the C-5 are Rube Goldberg dinosaurs - many half a century old - that keep getting worse as new technology is married to old technology. This is compounded by designing and continuously modifying for a huge variety of tasks and necessary upgrading. But given they would cost as much as over a quarter of a billion dollars each to replace, they keep them flying.
 

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That is so ignorant it doesn't merit comment.

The military literally can not train people to have highly developed and specialized organic (natural) gifts. Not in a thousands years. It would be impossible to train anyone to do what my daughter can do. It would be impossible to train her to do what other brainiacs/techno/science/engineering/electronics on the team do. There is no reason to train them to do conventional relevant missions tasks. I had posted how before a composite diverse team was assembles usage of _______________ was lethally disastrous. They are not developing new design rifle magazines and ruck sacks.

By your attacking ranting messages you appear incapable of grasping the concept that a diverse skills and knowledge set team is greater than the collection of individuals.

All your ranting does is your trying to compensation being unable to post of any significant events in your military history. I read your describing yourself in the military and all of this is beyond your duty areas and pay grade. Your ranting in your messages demonstrates a level of pigheadedness that should no longer be tolerated in the military, plus your clear misogynistic attitude towards women in the military, particularly combat. As I stated, it will take 2 generations for the military to be rid of men of the attitudes of your messages on military topics.

It was funny you posting that someone in the military for 3 years knows nothing about the military, but also then claim that in 7 years as now an E7 you know everything there is about everything every branch of the military does.
This has to be some of the dumbest most ill informed garbage I have heard in quite a while.
No one is born knowing how to conduct battle drills. No one is born knowing how to properly conduct CQB. No one is born knowing how to conduct a patrol. And here’s a clue. Combat is a team sport. It takes constant training as a team to be effective. No one is doing combat operations by themselves. That’s just more of your fantasy garbage. The only thing you post is silly nonsense. And no one is some female version of Rambo without constant training. Something that means you are not developing new technologies. But then when your entire knowledge base centers around what you have seen in movies I not surprised you don’t know that.

Seeing how you have never spent a day on the military every single thing is above your pay grade and duty areas so that’s not a real winning argument for you there.
Calling out your obvious BS is not pig headedness and I have no said a single bad thing about women. But I get why when your crap is called out and you have no real argument you have to try and deflect with such garbage.
And to finish of your post you prove that not only are you clueless about the military you reading comprehension is rather pathetic as well. I said I made E7 in seven years. Not that I still only have seven years in. I have a lot more then that.
But either way if I had only one year in my knowledge would be vastly greater then yours.
 

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Try reading this thread if you can't grasp still another value in having designers and those involved in development being personally involved in actual usage.


Some time ago I told of how a heavy aircraft was stranded end of runaway coming under attack - unable to take off as the pilots struggled with the switches and gauges and otherwise the electronics trying to figure what the hell was the problem. It took the design team aboard to get it off and out of there before the runway was turned into a collection of mortar crater holes - though none are pilots.

Though a different topic, I was told some military heavies such as the C-5 are Rube Goldberg dinosaurs - many half a century old - that keep getting worse as new technology is married to old technology. This is compounded by designing and continuously modifying for a huge variety of tasks and necessary upgrading. But given they would cost as much as over a quarter of a billion dollars each to replace, they keep them flying.
And of course you have some evidence to back up your little story and it’s not just you making crap up again right.
Sorry once someone tells as many lies as you I have a hard time believing a word you say
 

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Your ranting began back when I was posting about who probably is one of the most decorated Marine squad leaders to serve in Afghanistan at the height of ground combat - other than those honored who were gravely wounded and killed. He is one of those rare extraordinary people in the military - but then he was an extraordinary person before he joined. The military can train people, but can not change a person's basic nature and limitations on either an intellectual or self-definition personality level. The vast majority of people are sheep. A few are leaders. Some of those are also wolves.

You ranted on and on that no one could ever do what his squad did nor ever would be allowed to - with it clear who doesn't know jackshit about what you are posting is you - as if you have a clue what a ground Marine combat squad would or should do in combat in the Heldman District of Afghanistan. Only frustrated men rant on and on about others who have accomplished things they never have, would or could do themselves. But not everyone in the military is generically irrelevant.

By your messages, you are a person certain that everyone in the military is as you are - just a living cog in military machinery. In your entire military career, have you ever defied or significantly challenged a CO's orders? Ever put yourself on the firing line to do so?

I can not recall if you ever posted why you are so bitter towards others who are highly successfully in the military. Did you?


I didn't expect you to answer because you have no answer. I'm not even posting "about how the military functions" and am certain an Army E7 doesn't either.

I read you talking about yourself in the military on another thread. It explains your ignorant personal attacks. A very frustrated man in the military who years later is still fixated on the weight of his ruck sack, regretting his career decisions and lashing out at those who are highly motivated people - and successful because of such a personality trait.

Your ranting began when I posted about a Marine we know who was a squad leader in the Helmand District in Afghanistan at the height of the ground fighting. You rant against against anyone who actually DID anything of significance in the military, because by your own messages you haven't. In fact, the ONLY thing you post on military topics is posting about yourself - trivialities - and it is clearly your opinion that no woman should be in the military and certainly not in combat, always only referring to the "guys."

You posted one thing accurate. If a person is into technical matters join the AF, not the Army. What an Army E7 knows about AF technology and development is described in one word: NOTHING. These are all topics you know absolutely nothing about - just like you know nothing about Marine squad leaders in independent missions combat.

Candidly, I am posting on topics above your pay grade and entirely outside your duty areas in the military. A difference between you and I posting on military topics is that your involvement in the military is so trivial all you can do is attack others. I don't stalk you around the military forum making attacking you. I do not pretend I know what I don't, unlike you. I am not insecure about my life so don't need to attack others to feel good about myself.
No I called out your BS stories because they are total BS. You lying about what I said won’t change the truth. And I have done way more joint missions with marines then you but I am sure in your mind you know more. But then you and reality are rarely in the same ball park.

And I am sure you can quote me saying I have not done anything of significance. Oh wait we both know you can’t and are just lying as usual.

The funniest part about all this is you talking about my service and what my pay grade and duty areas while you never served a day on your life. And if my military service is trivial and means I shouldn’t be talking about this topic what does that say about you
I don’t know if I should feel sorry for up out laugh at you and the fact that you can’t see the stupidity in you claiming that someone who have been in the military for just about a decade and a half doesn’t know how the military works but you who never spent a single minute in the military knows.
I think I will probably just laugh at you.
Furthermore the Army disagrees with you as to the value of my service. Seeing as not only do they pay me much more then most people of the same rank I qualify for greater bonuses and make rank much quicker then the majority of the service.
But hey I am sure with your extensive military service you know more
 

joko104

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No I called out your BS stories because they are total BS. You lying about what I said won’t change the truth. And I have done way more joint missions with marines then you but I am sure in your mind you know more. But then you and reality are rarely in the same ball park.

And I am sure you can quote me saying I have not done anything of significance. Oh wait we both know you can’t and are just lying as usual.

The funniest part about all this is you talking about my service and what my pay grade and duty areas while you never served a day on your life. And if my military service is trivial and means I shouldn’t be talking about this topic what does that say about you
I don’t know if I should feel sorry for up out laugh at you and the fact that you can’t see the stupidity in you claiming that someone who have been in the military for just about a decade and a half doesn’t know how the military works but you who never spent a single minute in the military knows.
I think I will probably just laugh at you.
Furthermore the Army disagrees with you as to the value of my service. Seeing as not only do they pay me much more then most people of the same rank I qualify for greater bonuses and make rank much quicker then the majority of the service.
But hey I am sure with your extensive military service you know more
You have yet to post on the topic of this thread. All you do is follow me ranting stupidly against someone with a daughter in the AF discussing the problem of misogynist men such as you in your messages.

All you do is duck and dodge, posting about what you know nothing about. What you know about military technological development or the AF in such regards is exactly nothing. The amount of time you have spent in any aspect of military design and technology is exactly zero. What you know about AF combat missions and mission personnel is nothing. What you post is the foolish of an Army E7 (or so you claim) boasting or being superior to all other E7s in the Army and as an Army E7 are an expert on the every branch in the US military and what every person in the military does. Before the Pentagon plans and executes any mission they contact you for your Army E7 expertise in all things.

Your claim that people in the military and non-military scientists never ever act together on missions is pure ignorance. You have NO clue what you are talking about.

I know enough to point out that someone bragging that it ONLY took "about a decade and a half" to become an Army E7 and claiming they know all about the practices of defense contracting and Air Force defense research, technological research and TS missions is what is laughable.

My daughter has mentioned E7s in the past and said that they are worthless. She said they reach E7 after about 15 years and then don't do jackshit just riding out the last 5 years to reach 20. She has often talked about all the deadweight personnel the military has.

There is a HUGE difference between what my daughter most talks about and what you do. What she most talks about is "her people," people under her command and mission success. You? Pure ego maniac of your superiority over other E7s, nothing else. Your fixation on "how the military works" indicates a mind fixated on trivialities and are military deadweight. Her fixation is on her people and mission success. Those who care about how the military works as just nuisances to get out of the way.

What I understand is why you were never offered to go into officer's training. You truly don't understand how foolish your messages are claiming because you became an Army E7 and have been in 14 years makes you an expert on the Air Force! LOL!
 

joko104

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She and the rest are stateside and probably permanently. Possibly the higher ups came to recognize that while each defiance was worthy of commendations for the specific incident facts, the team also may have gone too free lance maverick by the increasing number of such occasions. No orders can compel her or the team to allow needless American casualties - her's, their's or any of other American personnel. If they have the tools and means to do so, they do - orders be damned - but they do it cleverly. She/they "understand how the military works" and aren't going to have anyone needless die because of "how the military works."

That is the down side of geeky technocrats and science brainaics in the military. They think things thru, not just blindly obey. They don't have an Oorah! attitude. This means they can go renegade. They will defy orders. They will act independently. No one is going to die just because of the stupidity of others or "how the military works." It also means they can be particularly capable at killing the enemy - but also may refuse to engage in killing just for the sake of killing, which our military does too much of now and then. They are smart enough and essential enough to get away with such independent decision making. "How the military works" is just to be used and handled - or bypassed/ignored - tactically for end goals, nothing more. This is also why they succeeded where prior teams failed. Why they are alive and prior teams aren't. There are no brain drains on their team. Rather, they are all highly specialized brainiacs each in their own unique way that put together make a unique team.

TIGHT team. Rank is irrelevant and they are not equals. Rather, each has their specific specialized skill and mental ability. If one within his/her specialization says no, they all recognize the superiority in that field and also then say no. If yes, then they all say yes. No outside dunderhead can change or order past that decision regardless of rank because they recognize the incompetence, just like they each recognize the superiority of others on the team each in their own field of specialization. Does this fall out of the range of" how the military works" typically? Absolutely. It is even one of their purposes - to prevent "how the military works" causing failure.

As per this topic, a person's sex/gender is fully irrelevant. It is only ignorant to think otherwise. There is a lot of such ignorance in the military and it is very detrimental to military effectiveness and capability. She recognizes she is cutting a path being in role after role no female has ever been in her branch of service, which may be the most misogynist of the branches and is known for this. The problems of "tailhook" still very much exists. For a woman to make a complaint of sexual discrimination, harassment or even rape is still a career killer in the Air Force - why women don't and why many don't stay in.
 
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