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Preconceptions people have about the military in terms of sex and appearance

joko104

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Had a long talk with my daughter in the military. I won't post about that much about that anymore. But this is interesting as a sociological topic, not just a military one.

If you assembled 1,000 random adults and ask people to "guess the one you think has killed the most enemy - not counting not specific targeted artillery and bombing - more one on one-ish?" They'd go thru at least half before guessing her. She's not butch looking or square shoulders, doesn't look tough. Cute. Not petite but not a pound over weight. Is young and looks a bit younger than she is. Her tats tell another story - military and tough but feminine. Otherwise, no clue. But it almost certainly is her as the correct guess - even a Seal team, special ops team and a sniper duo was in that 1000.

They'd pick me quick - tough, stern and hardened looking middle aged guy. Scars. Tall. Still a fair amount of noticeable muscularity. I've never been in the military.

Anyway... She had given me a cap with her branch of service and one of her areas of action (often in combat, many theaters known and unknown.) This is a very, very pro military area, lots of retirees and a lot of those were in the military. Everywhere I went wearing that cap I would be told "Thank you for your service" and many adding asking what theater of combat was I in? So I stopped wearing it.

What is funny is she said she stopped wearing that same cap too also for what people constantly said to her.

What would people say to her wearing that cap? "Thank your husband for his service. How long has he been in?"

Of course, it must be a man - her husband since she has on a wedding ring, right? However, for anything she'd done in the military, she's been the first woman in that area of duty. Interesting how easily people draw conclusions on appearance and a person's sex. So not her husband, right?

It also would not possibly cross their mind that she's married to another woman, not a man, who also is in the military. She just answers how long her spouse has been in not clarifying the gender. Why get into a discussion or argument with people you don't know? Just acknowledge their support of the military with a "thank you" and left it go.

We both were laughing pretty hard. Both of us had stopped wearing the cap due to misconceptions about appearances and gender - her and I both.
 
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They'd pick me quick - tough, stern and hardened looking middle aged guy. Scars. Tall. Still a fair amount of noticeable muscularity.

Man, that about describes every guy here.
 

joko104

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Man, that about describes every guy here.

:lol: Yeah, and they also all have PhDs, law degrees, were valedictorians and slept with dozens of super models too.

I don't have a GED or even 8 grade education. But for going thru school nights with this daughter (older of my 7), I wouldn't be able to read a word on this forum. The number of days I was in a school room in my youth - or ever (other than a brief stint for profession after age 30) - is exact zero. But for those few weeks I was 100% perfect scores all the way.

Academically, she taught me, not I taught her. My education in other ways in my youth was intense, so there were things I could teach her that no school every would or could. It all made for a very enduring close relationship, very special.
 

braindrain

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Had a long talk with my daughter in the military. I won't post about that much about that anymore. But this is interesting as a sociological topic, not just a military one.

If you assembled 1,000 random adults and ask people to "guess the one you think has killed the most enemy - not counting not specific targeted artillery and bombing - more one on one-ish?" They'd go thru at least half before guessing her. She's not butch looking or square shoulders, doesn't look tough. Cute. Not petite but not a pound over weight. Is young and looks a bit younger than she is. Her tats tell another story - military and tough but feminine. Otherwise, no clue. But it almost certainly is her as the correct guess - even a Seal team, special ops team and a sniper duo was in that 1000.

They'd pick me quick - tough, stern and hardened looking middle aged guy. Scars. Tall. Still a fair amount of noticeable muscularity. I've never been in the military.

Anyway... She had given me a cap with her branch of service and one of her areas of action (often in combat, many theaters known and unknown.) This is a very, very pro military area, lots of retirees and a lot of those were in the military. Everywhere I went wearing that cap I would be told "Thank you for your service" and many adding asking what theater of combat was I in? So I stopped wearing it.

What is funny is she said she stopped wearing that same cap too also for what people constantly said to her.

What would people say to her wearing that cap? "Thank your husband for his service. How long has he been in?"

Of course, it must be a man - her husband since she has on a wedding ring, right? However, for anything she'd done in the military, she's been the first woman in that area of duty. Interesting how easily people draw conclusions on appearance and a person's sex. So not her husband, right?

It also would not possibly cross their mind that she's married to another woman, not a man, who also is in the military. She just answers how long her spouse has been in not clarifying the gender. Why get into a discussion or argument with people you don't know? Just acknowledge their support of the military with a "thank you" and left it go.

We both were laughing pretty hard. Both of us had stopped wearing the cap due to misconceptions about appearances and gender - her and I both.

I was wondering when we were going to get the next installment of Jokos military fantasy story.

Again I give you a B for effort but a F for realism.

Helpful hint if you want to make your little story better you need to at least make it even slightly believable.

Anyone who has been in the military for more then a couple years and been even remotely close to the pointy end of the spear will instantly recognize it for the made up BS it is. But who knows you might be able to fool a few folks who have zero clue about the military.
 

joko104

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Anyone who has been in the military for more then a couple years and been even remotely close to the pointy end of the spear ...

Grunts talk about being the pointy end of the spear. Officers do not. Never heard anyone in the AF use that phrase about themselves either.

I gather by your messages you were "remotely close to (being) the pointy end of the spear" in the past.

"Thank you for your service."
 
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roguenuke

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Considering who the OP is, I am quite shocked that I can post in agreement here.

Yes, women vets are generally ignored or forgotten, especially when mixed in with men (even if not vets).

I am looking for a decal and/or tag cover for my car indicating my being a retired Chief. Even while I search, I think of those who may accuse me of using my husbands service as my own or just who may thank me for my husbands service.

Another example is when we go to the free dinners/meals on Veterans day, especially having stood in those lines with my husband and having older male veterans around us. They immediately start talking to my husband, asking about branch, rank, MOS/rating, where he served, etc, and completely ignore me. It doesnt seem to even dawn on many older men that women do serve, are veterans.

The other times it has irked me has actually been military wives. Telling me your husband fought for my right to say something has got to be one of the most sexist and ignorant comments you can make.

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joko104

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Considering who the OP is, I am quite shocked that I can post in agreement here.

Yes, women vets are generally ignored or forgotten, especially when mixed in with men (even if not vets).

I am looking for a decal and/or tag cover for my car indicating my being a retired Chief. Even while I search, I think of those who may accuse me of using my husbands service as my own or just who may thank me for my husbands service.

Another example is when we go to the free dinners/meals on Veterans day, especially having stood in those lines with my husband and having older male veterans around us. They immediately start talking to my husband, asking about branch, rank, MOS/rating, where he served, etc, and completely ignore me. It doesnt seem to even dawn on many older men that women do serve, are veterans.

The other times it has irked me has actually been military wives. Telling me your husband fought for my right to say something has got to be one of the most sexist and ignorant comments you can make.

As much as I disagree with much of what President Obama did, he did make the military open to women and gays and my daughter is both. I openly will give him credit for that as it is well deserved. Women like you also had helped make the path.Thank you for her, I and the United States.

While in high school, she competed in the "Voice of Democracy" Award at local the VFW post. The only other teen who entered was a teenager who said he was going to join the Marines. She gave a well thought out speech that actually made a point - and often had been a public speaker in general. The young fellow stumbled thru is his, forgetting most of it and after a couple minutes couldn't remember any more of it, so just did a a couple of loud OOH-RAHs!

The judge was the retired colonel. The teen boy won. Some of the women and wives threw a fit. With my daughter present, the old colonel explained it was because the boy is likely going into battle, although the military also needs "squaws" to support "our fighting warriors." That was the first clue to my daughter what she would be facing if she ever joined into the military. She has said she likes the challenge of "clearing the path" for women - though her focus is on her tasks, missions and those under her command. That always stuck with her and may have been one factor in her decision a couple years later to sign up with Obama having fully opened the door to both women and gays.
 
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joko104

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Oh yes, and the old colonel also may have been just a tad racist too, since I'm 100% of Indigenous American ancestry and she's half - so the "squaw" comment was a double slap.
 

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Grunts talk about being the pointy end of the spear. Officers do not. Never heard anyone in the AF use that phrase about themselves either.

I gather by your messages you were "remotely close to (being) the pointy end of the spear" in the past.

"Thank you for your service."

What you know of what people in the military say or do is virtually nonexistent. It’s why your silly little stories are completely unbelievable.

And I am not in the AF. Not sure where you are getting that from. And I am still serving.

And thank you for you for providing the entertainment of reading completely made up military fantasy stories.
 

braindrain

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Considering who the OP is, I am quite shocked that I can post in agreement here.

Yes, women vets are generally ignored or forgotten, especially when mixed in with men (even if not vets).

I am looking for a decal and/or tag cover for my car indicating my being a retired Chief. Even while I search, I think of those who may accuse me of using my husbands service as my own or just who may thank me for my husbands service.

Another example is when we go to the free dinners/meals on Veterans day, especially having stood in those lines with my husband and having older male veterans around us. They immediately start talking to my husband, asking about branch, rank, MOS/rating, where he served, etc, and completely ignore me. It doesnt seem to even dawn on many older men that women do serve, are veterans.

The other times it has irked me has actually been military wives. Telling me your husband fought for my right to say something has got to be one of the most sexist and ignorant comments you can make.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


I agree with you that woman role in the military is over looked. It’s just his stories of his super soldier Jane Rambo daughter that is made up. He has virtually no clue how the military in general works and just makes crap up.


I also would imagine that the reason most people assume it is your husband that served is because males make up over 80% of the military. And that’s a percentage that not that long ago was a lot less. Still doesn’t make it right but I think it’s probably human nature.
 

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I agree with you that woman role in the military is over looked. It’s just his stories of his super soldier Jane Rambo daughter that is made up. He has virtually no clue how the military in general works and just makes crap up.


I also would imagine that the reason most people assume it is your husband that served is because males make up over 80% of the military. And that’s a percentage that not that long ago was a lot less. Still doesn’t make it right but I think it’s probably human nature.
Oh I understand why it happens.

It does make it far more frustrating though when your mother and mother-in-law are veterans too. The military wives though have no excuse. There is no reason to make such stupid statements to anyone, let alone making an assumption about other women.

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Oh I understand why it happens.

It does make it far more frustrating though when your mother and mother-in-law are veterans too. The military wives though have no excuse. There is no reason to make such stupid statements to anyone, let alone making an assumption about other women.

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I totally understand your frustration. It wold bother me as well.

Though if I am being honest I have probably made the same assumption a time or to. I see a vehicle or something with a military sticker on in it in my head I am sure my first thought is it is the male in the car who earned it. I guess my only excuse would be I have spent my entire career in jobs where women are very rare and up until very recently only allowed at the BN and higher level so I don’t have much in the way of working with women on the day to day level.
 

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If I were to enter the armed forces I'd expect to start as a 4 star General.

The reason is because I've played RTS games all the way back to the first version Dune (the predecessor to command and conquer) and all the Total War games up to Rome 2.
I've seen more wars than anyone alive.
 

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Man, that about describes every guy here.
Nah that aint true. I look like I got beat with the ugly stick and then beat again to be sure the job was done right. Chicks do dig scars though, I got plenty of them and the stories that goes with them. (Chicks like the stories if you can tell em well.) Most of them from doing stupid shit when I was young. Too much courage not near near enough caution. Mix that with stubborn that can frustrate a Missouri mule. An incendiary combo as there can be. My parents loved me. (Note the sarcasm.)
 

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Considering who the OP is, I am quite shocked that I can post in agreement here.

Yes, women vets are generally ignored or forgotten, especially when mixed in with men (even if not vets).

I am looking for a decal and/or tag cover for my car indicating my being a retired Chief. Even while I search, I think of those who may accuse me of using my husbands service as my own or just who may thank me for my husbands service.

Another example is when we go to the free dinners/meals on Veterans day, especially having stood in those lines with my husband and having older male veterans around us. They immediately start talking to my husband, asking about branch, rank, MOS/rating, where he served, etc, and completely ignore me. It doesnt seem to even dawn on many older men that women do serve, are veterans.

The other times it has irked me has actually been military wives. Telling me your husband fought for my right to say something has got to be one of the most sexist and ignorant comments you can make.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I am a mercenary so people confuse me with those that have government military service because of the way I talk. Especially when I am wearing a unit jacket or one of my boonie hats I had or my khaki BDU's. Some even have accused me of stolen valor even though wear only my merc unit jackets and hats mostly on vets day and memorial day and independence day. I only wear the BDU's when I get together with boys from the unit. (We didn't have any females in our unit.) Last I checked the military never issued non camo khaki BDU's . ( I've noticed they are a bit tight. Guess its time to get on the hamster wheel. I also gots to get my tanker boots resoled (#3), they be very comfy being well broke in (17 years). They now be my shop boots. H&H made a very good boot.)

Thing is though you have to come from their point of view. Most military are men. That's who people see and interact with mostly. That's despite them knowing that women do serve. Even in theater when I was in the Sand Box behind the wire it was over 90% men. Past the wire it was even less. My unit and crews were 0% female. Go on a military base and what percentage of people are woman that wear a uniform 10% or 15% now, possible 20% on some bases? Back when I was working close with the DOD it was not near as many as now. All your vets are from a time women in service was just starting to expand. Its simply a matter of personal exposure if you ask me. It's rational and natural that people make quick judgments and assumptions based on past experience. Its not perfect. Its also most likely ignorance and not personal. Just my 2 cents on the dealeo.
 

joko104

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I agree with you that woman role in the military is over looked. It’s just his stories of his super soldier Jane Rambo daughter that is made up. He has virtually no clue how the military in general works and just makes crap up.


I also would imagine that the reason most people assume it is your husband that served is because males make up over 80% of the military. And that’s a percentage that not that long ago was a lot less. Still doesn’t make it right but I think it’s probably human nature.

You think of the military in WW2 standards.

Technology rules now. Virtually everything the military does now is dependent entirely on brains, geeks, technicians, exorbitantly complex and maintenance dependent equipment.

One of the military people who works of military aircraft told of an OLD retired colonel going ballistic when someone was talking to someone else about the "ram" in an aircraft. The old male colonel kept ranting that there is no "ram" in aircraft. He flew in every aircraft there was in the Korean war and they didn't have "ram!" He went on and on until another active duty high ranker told him to knock it off because he doesn't what the hell he's talking about. The American military can get 10 times as many pack mule grunts then it needs.

You think battles are decided by which side's personnel can carry heavier rucksacks. Therefore, there are only G.I. Joes, no G.I. Janes. If a sniper team, special ops team, or drone were sent after you, you have very little chance of survival. If my G.I. Jane's team (not a G.I.s at all) were assigned to take you out, you have 0% chance of survival. They will find you anywhere in the world. Doesn't matter where you are - cave, bunker, crowded city - you die. 100% of the time. That you can not accept such possibility by women - or men that couldn't run far with a rucksack to save their lives - just means you are like that old ignorant colonel stuck half a century in the past.

The USA's military superiority is not in our ground troops contrary to your foolishness. On average, some foreign military's ground troops are probably much tougher because they are trained brutally. Failing PT in the USA might hold you back or at worse result in being booted out. Breaking a piece of equipment recklessly probably will get a reprimand. In the military of some other countries the same is punished by being beaten to death. Our military is superior because of technology - including technology we time to time take into the theater of battle on the ground and in the air (and even in space - only nuclear weapons are prohibited by treaty from space - any other weaponry in space is not banned. The battle between the USA and China for military dominance is a space race - NOW - not just in the future. China attacks our space assets every day. But topics like that might as well be in the Chinese language to an old man stuck in ancient history. Keep living your glorious past running with a rucksack)
 

joko104

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Mentoring in the military for men is "to advance you need to stay out of trouble."
Mentoring in the military for women is "to advance you need to be the best."

The standards are not the same and it will be a full generation before all the dinosaur men in the military with the attitude such as braindrain are finally gone.

I have often posted one of the greatest handicaps to the military or are old and ex military. Although a much larger military, in WW2 the Germany military ran over the French military like it didn't exist because all the French generals were old WW1 generals who were so ignorant and pigheaded they actually believed the Germany Army couldn't go thru a forest!

It took two generations for the military to accept that non-white men are fully as capable as white men. There is still huge resistance to gays in the military within the military. It is even greater against women - and most of all against gay women of course. Curiously, that usually leads to the career destruction of such men - and not for political correctness rules. Rather, for not listening to such personnel when they should.

An example not involving my kid? A female aircraft maintainer refused to sign off on a 4 engine heavy. The pilot - male - overrode her blackballing the flight. So the pilot instead signed off. The female then red Xed it. The pilot overrode that too because he wanted to get to his home base. One the engines burst into flames on the runway to take off. Would he have listened to a male maintainer?

The military has the same problem the civilian sector used to have for civilian pilots. Fear to contradict the pilot. One person told me he's heard two recordings from crashed aircraft (all aboard killed) - one a B-52. The pilot ignored warning from the co-pilot or engineer - but the co-pilot or engineer wouldn't push it. Both recordings end with the co-pilot or engineer saying "you killed us" to the pilot. This was so common a cause of civilian jetliner crashes that the rules changed requiring agreement on some decisions and the requirement to override a pilot who would not comply. Most civilian jetliner pilots are ex military.
 
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joko104

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If I were to enter the armed forces I'd expect to start as a 4 star General.

The reason is because I've played RTS games all the way back to the first version Dune (the predecessor to command and conquer) and all the Total War games up to Rome 2.
I've seen more wars than anyone alive.
:)
 

roguenuke

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Mentoring in the military for men is "to advance you need to stay out of trouble."
Mentoring in the military for women is "to advance you need to be the best."

The standards are not the same and it will be a full generation before all the dinosaur men in the military with the attitude such as braindrain are finally gone.

I have often posted one of the greatest handicaps to the military or are old and ex military. Although a much larger military, in WW2 the Germany military ran over the French military like it didn't exist because all the French generals were old WW1 generals who were so ignorant and pigheaded they actually believed the Germany Army couldn't go thru a forest!

It took two generations for the military to accept that non-white men are fully as capable as white men. There is still huge resistance to gays in the military within the military. It is even greater against women - and most of all against gay women of course. Curiously, that usually leads to the career destruction of such men - and not for political correctness rules. Rather, for not listening to such personnel when they should.

An example not involving my kid? A female aircraft maintainer refused to sign off on a 4 engine heavy. The pilot - male - overrode her blackballing the flight. So the pilot instead signed off. The female then red Xed it. The pilot overrode that too because he wanted to get to his home base. One the engines burst into flames on the runway to take off. Would he have listened to a male maintainer?

The military has the same problem the civilian sector used to have for civilian pilots. Fear to contradict the pilot. One person told me he's heard two recordings from crashed aircraft (all aboard killed) - one a B-52. The pilot ignored warning from the co-pilot or engineer - but the co-pilot or engineer wouldn't push it. Both recordings end with the co-pilot or engineer saying "you killed us" to the pilot. This was so common a cause of civilian jetliner crashes that the rules changed requiring agreement on some decisions and the requirement to override a pilot who would not comply. Most civilian jetliner pilots are ex military.
This is true. When I first joined, it was said that you couldn't make Chief without going to Captains Mast at least once. I know several brothers who have gone up, but no sisters.

This was discussed in length a few days ago with some of my sisters when someone suggested some made rank to become "1st" or "2nd" female of a certain rank in a certain rating. Most sisters pointed out that such beliefs are the main reason we have to work so hard to be promoted, to make our evals shine because they are always challenged and there is a feeling amongst most aspiring females in the military that you won't be judged just on your performance compared to everyone else but also on whether you deserved it or were getting something for being a woman.

In 2002, in a department of over 500, with 36 women, over half of those women had leadership positions within their divisions. There wasn't quite enough time yet to have female Chiefs (women were allowed in my rating/job in 1994/1995 when Clinton signed to allow women on combat ships). Only one didn't deserve her position, didnt work hard for it (I can think of several male Sailors who were just awful, some who even acted similar to the woman who didn't deserve it). She got it though because we had a horrible Sr Chief in charge who didn't have enough E6s and who didn't quite understand advancement with nukes (he was a nonnuke). She ended up getting busted to E3/E4 and kicked out. She was the exception though, the opposite of what I've seen mainly with women in the military.

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Mycroft

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Obviously.

Army? Some people make a career out of being an E3, mastering filing personnel records.
Okay. I've been reading this thread...it's kind of amusing...but I had no intention of posting here because the end of my direct military experience came about in the early 90's. Yeah...I've been out of the Army longer than I was in the Army. So I really don't have my finger on the pulse of day to day soldier attitudes anymore. (And I'll admit that was by my design.)

But, my direct military experience spans more than two decades between the late 60's and early 90's and what you speak of here has not been possible since at least the late 70's. A person trying to "make a career" as you described wouldn't be able to have a career of more than 4 years. They simply wouldn't have been allowed their first reenlistment if they didn't do better than E3 in that amount of time. Hell, when I finally packed it in, it was difficult for a soldier to reenlist past eight years of active duty if they weren't on the promotion list for E6.

So...while I won't comment on most of the stuff you've been posting in this thread, I WILL call bullshit on this "E3 career" nonsense.
 

roguenuke

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Okay. I've been reading this thread...it's kind of amusing...but I had no intention of posting here because the end of my direct military experience came about in the early 90's. Yeah...I've been out of the Army longer than I was in the Army. So I really don't have my finger on the pulse of day to day soldier attitudes anymore. (And I'll admit that was by my design.)

But, my direct military experience spans more than two decades between the late 60's and early 90's and what you speak of here has not been possible since at least the late 70's. A person trying to "make a career" as you described wouldn't be able to have a career of more than 4 years. They simply wouldn't have been allowed their first reenlistment if they didn't do better than E3 in that amount of time. Hell, when I finally packed it in, it was difficult for a soldier to reenlist past eight years of active duty if they weren't on the promotion list for E6.

So...while I won't comment on most of the stuff you've been posting in this thread, I WILL call bullshit on this "E3 career" nonsense.
My father retired after barely making E5 that year, in the 90s, rushing paperwork through. Even with some recent changes, the Navy allows retirement as E5. E3 is pushing it, but there are definitely some jobs in every branch that cannot make E6 until after a decade or more of service. It is completely unrealistic to say even many have to be on selection for E6 to reenlist beyond 8.



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Mycroft

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My father retired after barely making E5 that year, in the 90s, rushing paperwork through. Even with some recent changes, the Navy allows retirement as E5. E3 is pushing it, but there are definitely some jobs in every branch that cannot make E6 until after a decade or more of service. It is completely unrealistic to say even many have to be on selection for E6 to reenlist beyond 8.



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I know nothing about the Navy. I specifically referenced the Army...as did the OP in the comment I responded to.

But...in order to be more clear and up to date on the issue, I looked up the current Army Retention Control Point (RCP) standards.

Picture1-768x274.jpg



This is a change from what I recall the standard being almost 30 years ago and this standard has changed and is always subject to change as the needs of the Army change. Keep in mind that there are a slew of additional qualifications and conditions that can impact these standards to make them shorter or longer.

In any case, my original comment to the OP's remarks about "E3 career" stands.
 

joko104

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Obviously my sampling is tiny and would tend to be people of a like mind or common interests in terms of active military. We live on the Gulf of Mexico's Florida Natural Coast. Fantastic fishing, hog hunting, and boating with boats, jet skis, motorcycles and vehicles they can use - plus housing and meals - so other than travel costs it is free R&R leave time. Doing out part to support our military personnel.

What prompted this thread was my surprise at the opposition to President Trump - and for the particulars - of those active at this time.

Just a couple other comments...
What "the military" thinks and does as policy is not necessarily what they think at all. Thus, the comment on Russia not being a real threat is their opinion, but clearly not the practices and policies of the military or policy makers. Those who feel the strongest about the danger being China are those in the computer, geo-space and other technical duty areas. For example, it was claimed that it was learned that nearly all made-in-China computer equipment, even keyboards, had implanted spyware and/or micro chips requiring they all be replaced ASAP when discovered at huge costs. China is constantly hacking into computer, communications and satellite systems - often successfully - for which we have to discover the hack and then deal with it - not always certain what risks or potential equipment disabilities were created or all-critical passwords have been breached. Just an example.

Other factors that may slant opinions? They are disproportionately white. Most are Air Force and Marines. None have been Navy and only a couple are Army. One is active Coast Guard - which I treat as being in military service. Most are not married and without children. Some have military related injuries by which they can stay in or become a reservist - but could not get out and then back in or jump to another service as they would not clear the enlistment/re-enlistment physical. About half have been in combat in some way or another.

Most are either personnel who have been in M.E. theaters of combat or are technocrat/geeky by nature, rather than administrative and managerial. Tend to be the athletic/outdoors personality types. Not particularly political personalities so their opinions are more from the gut and self-focused rather than ideological or partisan based.

Biden's tactic of staying out of the spotlight and saying as little as possible is working by making it solely whether you are for or against Trump, with Biden the default vote if against Trump. Again, none had one word positive about Biden or the Democratic Party. Rather, it is opposition to actions by the Trump administration, though they recognize Trump himself didn't make the nuts-and-bolts decisions for the most part.

There was no angry differences of opinion and none of the hatred of the other side - this being very apparent Trump territory with the massive numbers of Trump flags and signs in yards, flying off of pickups and boats - all very respectful. None wanted conflict and would go silent rather than disagree. One said the way to know if someone in active military is against something is if they remain silent on the topic. Silence doesn't get you in trouble. Opposition can. Thus they tend to either agree or say nothing. I wish they would feel a bit more comfortable to disagree - but they are too polite to really argue with their hosts. That makes sense I guess. Don't bite the hand that is handing you the keys to use their boat, truck or jet ski to use - full tank and can bring it back on empty.
 
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joko104

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Obviously my sampling is tiny and would tend to be people of a like mind or common interests in terms of active military. We live on the Gulf of Mexico's Florida Natural Coast. Fantastic fishing, hog hunting, and boating with boats, jet skis, motorcycles and vehicles they can use - plus housing and meals - so other than travel costs it is free R&R leave time. Doing out part to serve the military.

What prompted this thread was my surprise at the opposition to President Trump - and for the particulars - of those active at this time.

Just a couple other comments...
What "the military" thinks and does as policy is not necessarily what they think at all. Thus, the comment on Russia not being a real threat is their opinion, but clearly not the practices and policies of the military or policy makers. Those who feel the strongest about the danger being China are those in the computer, geo-space and other technical duty areas. For example, it was claimed that it was learned that nearly all made-in-China computer equipment, even keyboards, had implanted spyware and/or micro chips requiring they all be replaced ASAP when discovered at huge costs. China is constantly hacking into computer, communications and satellite systems - often successfully - for which we have to discover the hack and then deal with it - not always certain what risks or potential equipment disabilities were created or all-critical passwords have been breached. Just an example.

Other factors that may slant opinions? They are disproportionately white. Most are enlisted, but not all. Lowest rank: Active reserve E3/contractor. Highest: E7 and Captain. Most are Air Force and Marines. None have been Navy and only a couple are Army. One is active Coast Guard - which I treat as being in military service. Most - not all - are not married and without children. Most are either personnel who have been in M.E. theaters of combat or are technocrat/geeky by nature, rather than administrative and managerial. Tend to be the athletic/outdoors personality types. Not particularly political personalities so their opinions are more from the gut and self-focused rather than ideological or partisan based.

Biden's tactic of staying out of the spotlight and saying as little as possible is working by making it solely whether you are for or against Trump, with Biden the default vote if against Trump. Again, none had one word positive about Biden or the Democratic Party. Rather, it is opposition to actions by the Trump administration, though they recognize Trump himself didn't make the nuts-and-bolts decisions for the most part.

There was no angry differences of opinion and none of the hatred of the other side - this being very apparent Trump territory with the massive numbers of Trump flags and signs in yards, flying off of pickups and boats - all very respectful. None wanted conflict and would go silent rather than disagree. One said the way to know if someone in active military is against something is if they remain silent on the topic. Silence doesn't get you in trouble. Opposition can. Thus they tend to either agree or say nothing.
 
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