Poverty today in America

[Lafayette]

POVERTY IN AMERICA TODAY

I sense a lack of discussion on the matter of today's poverty in America. And yet, a very large portion of American families are literally "incarcerated" in that economic-sector.

The best and most qualified sites available for information are typically governmental and thus their access is bonafide-data. Thusly their information shows how pathetically unfair the taxation-system in the US is allowing income to gather and reproduce itself almost uniquely at the top. Which is creating the extremely large progression of upper-income ownership.

Whilst on the other end of the spectrum, people have to seek "handouts" to feed themselves on a daily basis. Or they spend nearly all their income that they attain from existing social support-systems to feed themselves and their families. (And I am sure also the numbers indicating criminality are impacted by this particular population!)

Today is very different from the 19th century when many families were fed by "religious support" groups. Which still do some such gracious-work but not as much as two-centuries ago. My point being this: We as a nation have a moral-requirement to assure that people can live a decent existence at a suitable level of income.

Because the evidence is showing that far too many of our fellow citizens still do not have the means to exist in the US at reasonable level given the present inadequacy nationally of "necessity support-systems". Studies show that the minimal income level in the US looks somewhat like this from here: Poverty Threshold

Excerpt:

The threshold in the United States are updated and used for statistical purposes. In 2020, in the United States, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was an annual income of US$12,760, or about $35 per day. The threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$26,200, about $72 per day.

So, let's presume that the threshold that interests us is for a family of four ($26,200). How many families make this amount of money in all of the US?

Answer excerpted from here: Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

Poverty:

• The official poverty rate in 2020 was 11.4 percent, up 1.0 percentage point from 10.5 percent in 2019. This is the first increase in poverty after five consecutive annual declines (Figure 8 and Table B-4).
• In 2020, there were 37.2 million people in poverty, approximately 3.3 million more than in 2019 (Figure 8 and Table B-1).
• Between 2019 and 2020, the poverty rate increased for non-Hispanic Whites and Hispanics. Among non-Hispanic Whites, 8.2 percent were in poverty in 2020, while Hispanics had a poverty rate of 17.0 percent. Among the major racial groups examined in this report, Blacks had the highest poverty rate (19.5 percent), but did not experience a significant change from 2019. The poverty rate for Asians (8.1 percent) in 2020 was not statistically different from 2019 (Figure 9 and Table B-1).

It is not easy to find the exact Incomes below which "poverty" is a proven level of existence. And, I find it tragic that we cannot know that Very Important Number-level for a good many American families in order to address specifically their needs*.

There is a wealth of information from this linked-site above that I cannot insert here and gives a damn-fine view of Poverty Today in American Families. For those interested in that question, this site (linked above) is key-reading ... !

*Poverty is an existence that has its ins-and-outs. Some live their lives there but many depend upon their work to free them from that type of "imprisonment". And given the nature of work that has exited the US for points-south (of the American border) poverty must be coming an acute problem for the nation.

 

[HIP56948]

Thanks. The links are a good read.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Who owns the land and how did they get it? Who makes the laws regarding zoning for single family housing?

The economic wargame is a continuation of the military wargame by other means.

ToxicDrums.com

Former domain of a blog covering articles from a wide range of fields from science to entertainment.

www.toxicdrums.com

Accounting/finance could have been made mandatory in high schools since Sputnik. Notice that we do not hear proponents of Capitalism or Socialism suggesting anything that simple.

 

[Mircea]

POVERTY IN AMERICA TODAY

Great. Another propaganda thread. You've never seen poverty. If you want, I'll take you on the World Poverty Tour™. We'll visit a number of countries, but you'll have to sign a release, because I don't want to be held responsible for your vomiting and having nightmares the rest of your life.

I sense a lack of discussion on the matter of today's poverty in America.

There's nothing to discuss.

Poverty is an attitude and it is self-inflicted. Those who do not wish to be "impoverished" will take the necessary steps to remove themselves from poverty and those who are apathetic and don't give a rat's ass will continued to be adored by the likes of you.

The best and most qualified sites available for information are typically governmental and thus their access is bonafide-data. Thusly their information shows how pathetically unfair the taxation-system in the US is allowing income to gather and reproduce itself almost uniquely at the top. Which is creating the extremely large progression of upper-income ownership.

Your continued Göbbelizations are unbecoming. In the truest traditions of Herr Josef Göbbels, you foist your Fallacy of Equivocation on everyone, falsely equivocating income with wealth.

Whilst on the other end of the spectrum, people have to seek "handouts" to feed themselves on a daily basis.

No, they don't have to seek handouts. They need to learn how to live within their means.

In Economics -- something you don't understand -- we call that "substitution."

So, let's presume that the threshold that interests us is for a family of four ($26,200). How many families make this amount of money in all of the US?

Answer excerpted from here: Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020


It is not easy to find the exact Incomes below which "poverty" is a proven level of existence. And, I find it tragic that we cannot know that Very Important Number-level for a good many American families in order to address specifically their needs*.

That's because you are grotesquely incompetent on the subject.

The so-called "federal poverty level" is irrelevant, meaningless and not of any value.

That's because it is the weighted average of the poverty levels of the 48 lower States (both Hawai'i and Alaska are omitted as statistical outliers due to the extraordinary Cost-of-Living in those States.)

Precisely because it is the weighted average, it is of no value.

To prove it is of no value, the Department of Housing & Urban Development --- which along with the Department of Transportation is largely responsible for high housing costs in the fraction of the 120,000+ housing markets that have high housing costs -- does not use the federal poverty level or even take it into consideration.

As a result, in some areas of the US, a single person earning $14,001/year is denied tax-payer housing subdies, because they earn too much money.

At the same time, in other areas of the US, a single person earning $55,692/annually gets the benefit of tax-payer housing subsidies, because they don't earn enough money.

But, the real question here is not how many people are in poverty, the real question is what emotion/mental illness would compel someone to butt in and insert themselves into the business of other people who aren't even remotely interested in their own financial circumstances?

 

[HangLow]

 

[Lafayette]

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!

Accounting/finance could have been made mandatory in high schools since Sputnik. Notice that we do not hear proponents of Capitalism or Socialism suggesting anything that simple.

Well, I live in France and I do suggest something simple! That we learn how to treat fellow mankind that live in foreign countries with respect and dignity. And not guns!

However, I can assure you that such is not all - and what remains makes a shame of how the US treats its people. I lie in France and also have access to a National Healthcare System (NHS) and pay $20 (in Euros) to see a doctor. For any further medical attention it is my French-NHS that pays for it!

What am I saying? European NHS and post-secondary schooling are both funded by the national governments in Europe and both should be made available to Americans as well.

Privatization of American healthcare is a "rip-off" it is soooo expensive. Most Americans that are from the lower-ranks of income-earners cannot afford it and therefore go without. But we Americans who live permanently in France send our kids to French post-secondary schooling ($500 a year in Euros) and our healthcare is free, gratis and for almost nothing.

THAT is what the proper support of both healthcare and postsecondary education should look like in the US! We are wasting BILLIONS of dollars on the DoD and what do we get? Thousands of fellow Yanks who died or were seriously wounded there - and FOR WHAT? Are the Iraqis better off for what we did? Are the Afghanis? Nope!

What Uncle Sam accomplished in those two countries was Nothing. Nada, niente, rien, tipota, zip ... and far too often death! The DoD should not be the major instrument of America's foreign-policy ... !

 

[RetiredUSN]

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!



Well, I live in France and I do suggest something simple! That we learn how to treat fellow mankind that live in foreign countries with respect and dignity. And not guns!

However, I can assure you that such is not all - and what remains makes a shame of how the US treats its people. I lie in France and also have access to a National Healthcare System (NHS) and pay $20 (in Euros) to see a doctor. For any further medical attention it is my French-NHS that pays for it!

What am I saying? European NHS and post-secondary schooling are both funded by the national governments in Europe and both should be made available to Americans as well.

Privatization of American healthcare is a "rip-off" it is soooo expensive. Most Americans that are from the lower-ranks of income-earners cannot afford it and therefore go without. But we Americans who live permanently in France send our kids to French post-secondary schooling ($500 a year in Euros) and our healthcare is free, gratis and for almost nothing.

THAT is what the proper support of both healthcare and postsecondary education should look like in the US! We are wasting BILLIONS of dollars on the DoD and what do we get? Thousands of fellow Yanks who died or were seriously wounded there - and FOR WHAT? Are the Iraqis better off for what we did? Are the Afghanis? Nope!

What Uncle Sam accomplished in those two countries was Nothing. Nada, niente, rien, tipota, zip ... and far too often death! The DoD should not be the major instrument of America's foreign-policy ... !

The poverty rate is lower now than before the Iraq/Afghan wars.

 

[psikeyhackr]

What is really absurd about the US is the cost of housing. What is the population density of the US compared to any European country? Then the US military manages to lose track of a couple of trillion dollars.

U.S. Army fudged its accounts by trillions of dollars, auditor finds

The United States Army’s finances are so jumbled it had to make trillions of dollars of improper accounting adjustments to create an illusion that its books are balanced.

www.reuters.com

Some individual claiming to be a Swedish socialist told me that the math involved in mandatory accounting would make Capitalism seem logical to the students.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Poverty is an attitude and it is self-inflicted. Those who do not wish to be "impoverished" will take the necessary steps to remove themselves from poverty and those who are apathetic and don't give a rat's ass will continued to be adored by the likes of you.

Advocating crime. Nice.

 

[Ug make hammer]

What is really absurd about the US is the cost of housing. What is the population density of the US compared to any European country? Then the US military manages to lose track of a couple of trillion dollars.

U.S. Army fudged its accounts by trillions of dollars, auditor finds

The United States Army’s finances are so jumbled it had to make trillions of dollars of improper accounting adjustments to create an illusion that its books are balanced.

www.reuters.com

Some individual claiming to be a Swedish socialist told me that the math involved in mandatory accounting would make Capitalism seem logical to the students.

The cost of housing is hugely variable. Maybe what the poor need is a Relocation Allowance.

And since moving to a new town where you don't know anyone is pretty challenging, perhaps they could be organized into groups of a dozen households or so, and all move at once.

 

[psikeyhackr]

The cost of housing is hugely variable. Maybe what the poor need is a Relocation Allowance.

And since moving to a new town where you don't know anyone is pretty challenging, perhaps they could be organized into groups of a dozen households or so, and all move at once.

The government zoning single family housing kind of affects land use and prices. It is curious how multiunits can be made desirable by the rich.

Habitat 67 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Though that is not what was intended. People with expensive housing do not want the price to drop. How many American politicians are wealthy based on real estate?

 

[Lafayette]

EUROPE IS EUROPE WHILST AMERICA IS AMERICA - AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET

What is really absurd about the US is the cost of housing. What is the population density of the US compared to any European country? Then the US military manages to lose track of a couple of trillion dollars.

Wrong. You-plural in the US have got much cheaper housing than in Europe.

From here: Is housing expensive in Europe?

In three major European cities, the average monthly rent of a furnished one-bedroom in the fourth quarter of 2020 was over 1,500 U.S dollars. One of the main factors driving high rents across European cities is the same as any other consumer driven business. If demand outweighs supply, prices will inflate. (Nov 9, 2021)

Europe's traditional capital-cities are extremely old even if they are kept "livable". Much, much, much older than in the US. All of which means more costly current upkeep and not always the ability to expand easily.

The average cost of living in the EU is also higher than the US - and has been for quite some time. The notion that the EU is a "unified nation" is still current in the press but it is also statistically untrue. Uncle Sam's available land-space (to extend housing) is far greater than that of Europe.

From Investopedia here: Is Living in Europe Cheaper Than Living in America?

Americans and Europeans are subject to very different fiscal regimes, but which is more cost-effective? Overall, Europe often has lower costs when measured against the United States. But these financial benefits should be weighed carefully against factors such as location, income levels, and monetary and economic conditions.

Key Takeaways

• Overall, Europe has a lower cost of living due to lower healthcare expenses, a weakening euro currency, and low inflation.
• Europeans, however, tend to pay more of their income to taxes, and average wages tend to be lower than in America.
• Most European countries offer free healthcare for residents, which represents a huge saving.

Healthcare expenses are "killers" is in the US! No joke!

The European set of National Healthcare Services are a LOT cheaper than in the US. Whyzzat? Because the costs of a medical degree are very different. There is no astronomical post-secondary cost to educate a physician in Europe. In France, it would cost about $500 (for annual schooling fees) plus apartment and all else.

In fact, getting an advanced degree in Europe is almost "languid-in-effort" compared to the US. And whyzat? Because in the US if you are paying one helluva-lotta-moolah to finance a university degree (because your parents cannot finance it) you must not be "languid" in your studies! You must get-out and into-a-job ASAP to pay your accrued schooling-debts! (Unless Mummy&Daddy are paying your way - but that's not for everybody and especially not the poor!)

Just when are we-Yanks gonna cut drastically the DoD-budget and use that money to fund state post-secondary schooling for all-and-sundry? Such that our kids can get the education necessary for a decent well-paying job without massive-debt hanging over their heads?

Huh? When ... ?

 

[Lafayette]

POST-SECONDARY SCHOOLING COSTS ARE OUTTA-SIGHT!

Just when are we-Yanks gonna cut drastically the DoD-budget and use that money to fund state post-secondary schooling for all-and-sundry? Such that our kids can get the education necessary for a decent well-paying job without massive-debt hanging over their heads?

Huh? When ... ?

This is a key-question for America's future. The world-of-work has changed fundamentally. The building where my parents worked to make sunglasses is now a supermarket parking-lot.

And yet, we have post-secondary educational costs that are skyrocketed. From here:

According to the College Board, published tuition fees for 2018/19 at state colleges are an average of US$10,230 for state residents, and $26,290 for everyone else. This compares to an average of $35,830 at private non-profit colleges.

And I think it is important to underline the fact that the above is an annual tuition-fee. Ta dah!

Also, consider this chart below: (The internet-address does not work, but here it is anyway - https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/cf7565c/2147483647/crop/4050x2573+0+0/resize/970x970/quality/85/?)

Ten-thou a year in dollars for tuition aint hay to someone living at or just above the Poverty Threshold in the US (that is, $26K a year of family income) ...

 

[psikeyhackr]

Wrong. You-plural in the US have got much cheaper housing than in Europe.

I didn't say it was more than Europe, I am saying with the population density it should be very low. Who gets to manipulate supply and demand?

How much of all of the national park land in the US is bigger than which European countries?

 

[cpwill]

POVERTY IN AMERICA TODAY

I sense a lack of discussion on the matter of today's poverty in America. And yet, a very large portion of American families are literally "incarcerated" in that economic-sector.
: We as a nation have a moral-requirement to assure that people can live a decent existence at a suitable level of income.

Because the evidence is showing that far too many of our fellow citizens still do not have the means to exist in the US at reasonable level given the present inadequacy nationally of "necessity support-systems".

Since your motivation here is sincere concern for the poor, rather than a base desire to bash America, you will be happy to learn that the stats you cited on poverty do not reflect those support systems, meaning that the actual incidence of poverty is far less than what you thought

Those statistics exclude about $1 trillion in annual transfer payments to lower‐income households and do not account for the effects of taxes. When those transfers and tax effects are included, income inequality in the United States is lower than that in many Western democracies and has grown at rates similar to income inequality in other nations. Improved estimates of poverty show that only about 2 percent of today’s population lives in poverty, well below the 11 percent to 15 percent that has been reported during the past five decades....​

 

[Lafayette]

BOLLOCKS!

Since your motivation here is sincere concern for the poor, rather than a base desire to bash America, you will be happy to learn that the stats you cited on poverty do not reflect those support systems, meaning that the actual incidence of poverty is far less than what you thought .

Enough of your cheap-shots.

From here: The Association Between Income and Life Expectancy in the United States, 2001–2014

The gap in life expectancy between the richest 1% and poorest 1% of individuals was 14.6 years (95% CI, 14.4 to 14.8 years) for men and 10.1 years (95% CI, 9.9 to 10.3 years) for women. Second, inequality in life expectancy increased over time.

Also, from here: Income Inequality and Life Expectancy

How does income level affect life expectancy?

The study took individual-level data and found that life expectancy continues to increase as income goes up. It also showed that the difference in life expectancy between the lowest- and highest-income quartiles—the top and bottom 25 percent of income—varies across areas and is increasing over time. (Aug 6, 2018)

The link between life expectancy and income-inequality is well established. Which is why I don't understand why America is allowing in basically uneducated people from Central South America. The economic-nature of the US has fundamentally changed. Manufacturing has moved almost entirely Central and South America.

Only 12% of GDP today is contribute by Manufacturing and all the rest comes out of Services Industries! Which, in terms of competence, are typically of a higher educational level.

Times change and so should our ways of looking at comparative economic alternatives. We need to educate to a higher-level standard - that is, to Tertiary Level schooling ... !

 

[cpwill]

BOLLOCKS!



Enough of your cheap-shots.

From here: The Association Between Income and Life Expectancy in the United States, 2001–2014



Also, from here: Income Inequality and Life Expectancy


The link between life expectancy and income-inequality is well established. Which is why I don't understand why America is allowing in basically uneducated people from Central South America. The economic-nature of the US has fundamentally changed. Manufacturing has moved almost entirely Central and South America.

Only 12% of GDP today is contribute by Manufacturing and all the rest comes out of Services Industries! Which, in terms of competence, are typically of a higher educational level.

Times change and so should our ways of looking at comparative economic alternatives. We need to educate to a higher-level standard - that is, to Tertiary Level schooling ... !

Hello @Lafayette

How does any of that answer the point that your earlier cited poverty rates failed to take tax and transfer payments into available, and that the actual poverty rate is, in happy fact, much lower?

 

[danielpalos]

We can solve simple poverty in the US by merely bearing true witness to our own laws.

What is the opinion of solving simple poverty and raising the minimum wage to raise more tax revenue via general forms of taxation instead of direct forms of taxation?

 

[Lafayette]

How does any of that answer the point that your earlier cited poverty rates failed to take tax and transfer payments into available, and that the actual poverty rate is, in happy fact, much lower?

Bollocks again! Show me where "poverty rates failed to take tax and transfer payments" into account! These are required to be reported into taxation-documents therefore they enter into reported income.

The calculation of a poverty rate is the ratio of the number of people (in a given age group) whose income* falls below the poverty line; taken as half the median household income of the total population.

And that is all it is ...!

*Income includes all sources of revenue of a individual or a family.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

POVERTY IN AMERICA TODAY

I sense a lack of discussion on the matter of today's poverty in America. And yet, a very large portion of American families are literally "incarcerated" in that economic-sector.

The best and most qualified sites available for information are typically governmental and thus their access is bonafide-data. Thusly their information shows how pathetically unfair the taxation-system in the US is allowing income to gather and reproduce itself almost uniquely at the top. Which is creating the extremely large progression of upper-income ownership.

Whilst on the other end of the spectrum, people have to seek "handouts" to feed themselves on a daily basis. Or they spend nearly all their income that they attain from existing social support-systems to feed themselves and their families. (And I am sure also the numbers indicating criminality are impacted by this particular population!)

Today is very different from the 19th century when many families were fed by "religious support" groups. Which still do some such gracious-work but not as much as two-centuries ago. My point being this: We as a nation have a moral-requirement to assure that people can live a decent existence at a suitable level of income.

Because the evidence is showing that far too many of our fellow citizens still do not have the means to exist in the US at reasonable level given the present inadequacy nationally of "necessity support-systems". Studies show that the minimal income level in the US looks somewhat like this from here: Poverty Threshold

Excerpt:


So, let's presume that the threshold that interests us is for a family of four ($26,200). How many families make this amount of money in all of the US?

Answer excerpted from here: Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020


It is not easy to find the exact Incomes below which "poverty" is a proven level of existence. And, I find it tragic that we cannot know that Very Important Number-level for a good many American families in order to address specifically their needs*.

There is a wealth of information from this linked-site above that I cannot insert here and gives a damn-fine view of Poverty Today in American Families. For those interested in that question, this site (linked above) is key-reading ... !

*Poverty is an existence that has its ins-and-outs. Some live their lives there but many depend upon their work to free them from that type of "imprisonment". And given the nature of work that has exited the US for points-south (of the American border) poverty must be coming an acute problem for the nation.

The Heritage Foundation made a big splash in the mid 20-teens with a "report" that stated that 99.6% of ALL households in America owned a refrigerator, as if to somehow imply that there is no real poverty in America. Fox News Channel's team made quick work of that "report" and went on to scold America's giving community by admonishing them that their targets enjoyed not only a refrigerator, but cars and video consoles.

Hmmm, never mind that the video console and its attached flat panel TV may have likely been purchased for twenty or thirty bucks at a neighborhood yard sale and hail from a decade or two earlier, never mind that said "car" is running on one or two less than the standard number of cylinders and is in bad need of an inspection and repairs, never mind that the fridge probably has nothing more impressive than last night's leftover mac & cheese, some stale hot dogs and a jug of Kool-Aid and little else.



Today's Republicans cannot distinguish between "the poor" and "the dying", the latter of which
is represented to them in church by placards showing poor African babies with bellies distended from
kwashiorkor and emaciated from lack of protein.
As long as those starving babies remain in Africa or the Middle East, they'll give cheerfully.

 

[cpwill]

Bollocks again! Show me where "poverty rates failed to take tax and transfer payments" into account!

If you will read above, you will see I sourced that point in the paragraph that you carefully did not quote in your reply

These are required to be reported into taxation-documents therefore they enter into reported income.

The calculation of a poverty rate is the ratio of the number of people (in a given age group) whose income* falls below the poverty line; taken as half the median household income of the total population.

And that is all it is ...!

*Income includes all sources of revenue of a individual or a family.

Said income does not, until it is adjusted to do so.

If, for example, a family of 4 is below the poverty line from earned income, but is raised above it due to the EITC and child tax credit, then the family can be scored as being in poverty, though it is not, actually, living underneath the Federal poverty line.

 

[Lutherf]

There is a simple solution. Simply abandon capitalism, prohibit any and all cash transactions, eliminate private sector employment and just have the central government provide for everyone’s necessities. Poof! No more poverty.

If everyone is destitute then all are equally wealthy!

 

[danielpalos]

There is a simple solution. Simply abandon capitalism, prohibit any and all cash transactions, eliminate private sector employment and just have the central government provide for everyone’s necessities. Poof! No more poverty.

If everyone is destitute then all are equally wealthy!

Because we know capitalism won't solve poverty and can make a profit from economic disparity?

 

[Lutherf]

Because we know capitalism won't solve poverty and can make a profit from economic disparity?

What system has solved poverty?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

You've never seen poverty. If you want, I'll take you on the World Poverty Tour™.

But I have, and while I'll readily admit the poor are better off here than somalia, the fact remains that they are poor, impoverished in fact