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Blackflagx said:
Definitly not a revolution through parliment. That will lead us to nothing but reform. Revolution will be peacefull until the reactionaries attack us. My three most admired political figures would have to be Marx, Luxemburg, and Che (though Im not a fan of guerrillaism).

Something I've always wondered...

If you think that there's going to be an anarchist revolution by violence, what weapons will you use? You certainly can't use the mass produced weapons that the other side will have, because a true anarchist wouldn't sell the soul of the worker in such a way. How will you fight back?

One compliment though, your rhetoric already has the markings of a politician.

"We will be completely peaceful in our illegal and complete takeover, and it will only become violent when they government tries to stop us. It's their own fault, really."
 
Did you read my posts? I clearly stated that I wasnt an anarchist. I am a marxist. We will use the weapons available to us. Right now anyone could buy (or take) enough guns simply from stores to start an insurrection. What I said is not rhetoric. I do not want to kill anybody unless they leave me no other choise and that is the truth. You do realize that this country, which you love so much, was founded on revolution right? Just checking.
 
Blackflagx said:
Did you read my posts? I clearly stated that I wasnt an anarchist. I am a marxist. We will use the weapons available to us. Right now anyone could buy (or take) enough guns simply from stores to start an insurrection. What I said is not rhetoric. I do not want to kill anybody unless they leave me no other choise and that is the truth. You do realize that this country, which you love so much, was founded on revolution right? Just checking.

Well to be fair, it was a revoultion for independance from colonialism but I do somewhat see your point. However, i must ask from one leftist to another, do you honestly see another American revolution happening in our lifetime? I think the second someone were to start a revolution, however peacefull, they would be condemed as terrorists and put away for a while, guilty until proven innocent.
 
Blackflagx said:
Did you read my posts? I clearly stated that I wasnt an anarchist. I am a marxist. We will use the weapons available to us. Right now anyone could buy (or take) enough guns simply from stores to start an insurrection. What I said is not rhetoric. I do not want to kill anybody unless they leave me no other choise and that is the truth. You do realize that this country, which you love so much, was founded on revolution right? Just checking.

I was an anarchist but found holes in the theory. Now I am a council communist which really isnt much different.

I'm sorry, I must have missed where you clearly stated that you weren't an anarchist.

And yes, this country was formed through revolution, but only for the purpose of creating a new form of government, not to begin a process of constant revolution. And the founding fathers were in no way as opposed to reform as you seem to be.

I'm sorry, its just the image of all the little 15 year old anarchist/globalcommunist/marxist whatever the hell you guys want to call yourselves now "rising up" and taking over that amuses me so much.

I was at a rally last year where my friend got accosted by a little runt espousing similar views as yours, and although my friend was being calm, the kid was rolling epithets of his pierced tongue like nothing. He spit on and pushed my friend, who then punched the kid in the face and knocked him on his ass.

Right now anyone could buy (or take) enough guns simply from stores to start an insurrection.

The one key part you're missing is the support of pretty much anyone.
 
And the founding fathers were in no way as opposed to reform as you seem to be.

It depends on what you mean by reform. I do not oppose reform through unions and through the people themselves. I oppose top-down reform. Change must come from the bottom up.

I'm sorry, its just the image of all the little 15 year old anarchist/globalcommunist/marxist whatever the hell you guys want to call yourselves now "rising up" and taking over that amuses me so much.

There is no reason for steriotypes. I am sorry but I find it redicullas to use ageism against me. Do you honestly believe that, because I am young, I posses the inability to think? I am not some rebel kid. I am serious and really want to change this world. I dont want to hurt anybody if I dont have to. Plus, you seem to think that I propse a violent revolution without the support of the masses. On the contrary. I realize that change cannot come about without the full support, and participation of the masses. Please, in the future, do not resort to discrimination like ageism against someone who has been quite polite to you.
 
Blackflagx said:
It depends on what you mean by reform. I do not oppose reform through unions and through the people themselves. I oppose top-down reform. Change must come from the bottom up.

Change must come with support, which you do not and will never have, because your proposed change is stupid, to put it bluntly.


There is no reason for steriotypes. I am sorry but I find it redicullas to use ageism against me. Do you honestly believe that, because I am young, I posses the inability to think? I am not some rebel kid. I am serious and really want to change this world. I dont want to hurt anybody if I dont have to. Plus, you seem to think that I propse a violent revolution without the support of the masses. On the contrary. I realize that change cannot come about without the full support, and participation of the masses. Please, in the future, do not resort to discrimination like ageism against someone who has been quite polite to you.

I didn't say you were unable to think, I merely implied that some day, when the realities of life hit you, you will (hopefully, for your own sake) grow out of your foolish naivetes. You don't want to hurt anybody if you don't have to? Oh, that's so kind of you. I didn't want to beat my girlfriend, but she asked for it by not having dinner ready.

Would you really kill a man because he stood in the way of your proposed revolution? The answer is no.

If you're smart enough to realize that change will not come without the full support of the masses, you should be smart enough to realize that it will never happen.

Remember, until you're 18, you're not a real citizen. Ageism is the biggest crock of **** ever.
 
V.I. Lenin said:
Welcome! A republican and a green? What a broken home you must live in :mrgreen:

Yes anarchy is filled with holes, not a bad ideology on paper but....I find it almost impossible to ever be applied.

A violent revolution or a democratic one? Who are your top 3 most admired political figures?

Always good to meet another leftist! :2wave:
Is not the final stage of communism a form of anarchy? Holding this as true, then isn't it also true that anarchists and reds fight for the same thing? Blackflag knows where I'm going with this, but might as well tell you. I believe that the reason every single leftist movemet has failed (redical leftist, anyway) is because of the great disarray of the entire radical left. The anti-capitalist movement has much momentum and much power, as can be seen from the great protests in Seatlle in '99, but it is driven apart by petty ideological differences. Anarchists are all but insane in their actions toward MArxists, and we Marxists aren't better. If we could form a union, though, of sorts, and unite the two already somewhat powerful factions, and also include the radical greens, great power could be achieved. This great power, hopefull international, would no doubt result in socialist governments rising to power. State socialism is, in my opinion, the first step towards communism (on this I disagree with black flag). What'd think VI?
 
RightatNYU said:
Change must come with support, which you do not and will never have, because your proposed change is stupid, to put it bluntly.




I didn't say you were unable to think, I merely implied that some day, when the realities of life hit you, you will (hopefully, for your own sake) grow out of your foolish naivetes. You don't want to hurt anybody if you don't have to? Oh, that's so kind of you. I didn't want to beat my girlfriend, but she asked for it by not having dinner ready.

Would you really kill a man because he stood in the way of your proposed revolution? The answer is no.

If you're smart enough to realize that change will not come without the full support of the masses, you should be smart enough to realize that it will never happen.

Remember, until you're 18, you're not a real citizen. Ageism is the biggest crock of **** ever.
Blackflag, if I were you, I'd simply ignore NYU. I'll give the New Yorker some credit: he is the only intelligent extremely pro-capitalist fellow I have yet found on these forums. Now this compliment comes from me, I also oppose your idea of revolution, so take the comliment to the capitalist with that in mind. Basically, don't let his over-the-top criticism put you down, because he's just as powerless as you, meaning that, since you're younger, you, for the moment, have the upper hand. Fight for your ideals, my friend, and do not let a capitalist stop you.
 
anomaly said:
Blackflag, if I were you, I'd simply ignore NYU. I'll give the New Yorker some credit: he is the only intelligent extremely pro-capitalist fellow I have yet found on these forums. Now this compliment comes from me, I also oppose your idea of revolution, so take the comliment to the capitalist with that in mind. Basically, don't let his over-the-top criticism put you down, because he's just as powerless as you, meaning that, since you're younger, you, for the moment, have the upper hand. Fight for your ideals, my friend, and do not let a capitalist stop you.

I fail to see how I am powerless. I am of age to vote. I work with my congressman. I know and work with various policymakers across NYS. I will be attending law school and teaching over the next few years, and then moving into the judiciary.

And he's only a few years younger. I've got faith in my life expectency.

=)
 
anomaly said:
Is not the final stage of communism a form of anarchy? Holding this as true, then isn't it also true that anarchists and reds fight for the same thing? Blackflag knows where I'm going with this, but might as well tell you. I believe that the reason every single leftist movemet has failed (redical leftist, anyway) is because of the great disarray of the entire radical left. The anti-capitalist movement has much momentum and much power, as can be seen from the great protests in Seatlle in '99, but it is driven apart by petty ideological differences. Anarchists are all but insane in their actions toward MArxists, and we Marxists aren't better. If we could form a union, though, of sorts, and unite the two already somewhat powerful factions, and also include the radical greens, great power could be achieved. This great power, hopefull international, would no doubt result in socialist governments rising to power. State socialism is, in my opinion, the first step towards communism (on this I disagree with black flag). What'd think VI?

"As a world view, anarchism is bourgeoisie turned inside out. To live in a society and be free from it is impossible
~LENIN

I do quite agree in your logic...but i must say I am somewhat at a loss of words being that you both advocate socialism in America. This is not going to happen comrades, not anytime soon. I believe if global revolution were to happen, America shall be the last country to fall. You cannot expect a leftist revolution to do anything to the Golden-boy of capitalism known as America. State socialism IS the first step towards that near-utopian idea known as communism, and while i have a bleak view of communism, i have an even bleaker one of anarchy. I've seen that anarchists wish to go from capitalism to anarchism with no steps in between. The sad fact is strong leaders will be needed and some sort of government is needed. And then, if all this DOES happen, as Lenin said "Under socialism all will govern in turn and will soon become accustomed to no one governing"
 
Lenin, your sceptisism of American socialism is a bit odd. I think America will be one of the fist to go. Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism afterall. The US has been the capitalist empire for a long time and is at the highest stage. Socialism is next. The American working class does have a rather militant history if you think about it. With all the revolutions in Latin American, im sure the US will be hit. Remeber the first rule of dialectics, nothing stays the same. Though it may look bleak, do not be fooled. The death of American (and world) capitalism is looming. I am almost possitive we will see socialism (maybe even communism) in our lifetimes. Do not think Capitalist America will last much longer. We are close to seeing its collapse.
 
Blackflagx said:
Lenin, your sceptisism of American socialism is a bit odd. I think America will be one of the fist to go. Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism afterall. The US has been the capitalist empire for a long time and is at the highest stage. Socialism is next. The American working class does have a rather militant history if you think about it. With all the revolutions in Latin American, im sure the US will be hit. Remeber the first rule of dialectics, nothing stays the same. Though it may look bleak, do not be fooled. The death of American (and world) capitalism is looming. I am almost possitive we will see socialism (maybe even communism) in our lifetimes. Do not think Capitalist America will last much longer. We are close to seeing its collapse.

hahahahahhahahahahahhahhaahahahahaha
 
hahahahahhahahahahahhahhaahahahahaha

Perhaps you should come up with an inteligent response. I only feel this way because I know nothing lasts forever. If you think capitalism will, youve got another thing comming. As Marx predicted, capitalism will be followed by socialism, and that is what will happen in the US.
 
Blackflagx said:
Perhaps you should come up with an inteligent response. I only feel this way because I know nothing lasts forever. If you think capitalism will, youve got another thing comming. As Marx predicted, capitalism will be followed by socialism, and that is what will happen in the US.

Because all of Marx's other predictions turned out so well.... :roll:
 
Repub05 said:
MInnesota Republican here (weird huh?)

I'm 15

ROCK ON! I'll be a 15 year old Republican in a few months.
 
RightatNYU said:
Because all of Marx's other predictions turned out so well.... :roll:
One thing you should never do, NYU, is debate something of which you have little knowledge. Have you ever read the communist manifesto? If so, recall Marx's ten points. Then compare his predictions, as you call them (they were more like his hopes for man rather than hard predictions), to what we see in the modern 1st world countries of the world. The Progressive movement, and then FDR 20 years later, enacted many of these points. So, to sum it all up, some of Marx's so-called predictions have proven quite true. Has socialism, as he saw it, or communism, the pinnacle of human evolution, come about as of yet? Of course not, but many reforms enacted to protect the worker (these reforms, by the way, are currently being chipped away at by those oh so loveable capitalists) do appear to have Marxist roots. (examples: public education, abolition of child labor, graduated income tax, abolition of rights of inheritance-not completely today, but much does go to the government).
 
V.I. Lenin said:
~LENIN

I do quite agree in your logic...but i must say I am somewhat at a loss of words being that you both advocate socialism in America. This is not going to happen comrades, not anytime soon. I believe if global revolution were to happen, America shall be the last country to fall. You cannot expect a leftist revolution to do anything to the Golden-boy of capitalism known as America. State socialism IS the first step towards that near-utopian idea known as communism, and while i have a bleak view of communism, i have an even bleaker one of anarchy. I've seen that anarchists wish to go from capitalism to anarchism with no steps in between. The sad fact is strong leaders will be needed and some sort of government is needed. And then, if all this DOES happen, as Lenin said "Under socialism all will govern in turn and will soon become accustomed to no one governing"
Never fear, I have a little theory I've crafted, that I touched on earlier. The Democrats, once the protectors and guardians of the worker and farmer, now have all but turned their backs on the said groups. If one presently today cannot see the Labour and Democratic parties heading right, one is blind. The Labour party has now given up its quest for nationalization of the economy. The Democrats have already said that the era of big government is over. Roughly translated, without the pretty wording, that means that the old 'liberals' are now just as pro-capitalist, pro-business, as their right wing counterparts. There are, in the US an UK, no leftist parties in existence. One should know that to be pro-business is to be anti-labor, there is no difference between those stances. Therefore, educated Europeans and poor workers of the global south alike are, or atleast seem to be, quite hungry for change, for a stop to the rigors of capitalism, in short, for socialism. I don't know of the patriotic madness will ever stop blinding the American people, however, but throughout the world, I believe, ignorance is the only thing standing in the way of socialism. We in America must simply not be able to comprehend such horrors as poverty on the scale of that of the global south. Obviously a leftist power is needed to help these people. Reform parties have failed in there so-called mission to defend the poor and downtrotten, so now radicals must. Evolution in its finest sense. I propose that we unify the radical left, or the anti-capitalists, into a single international party. This may lead to the destruction of the weaker leftist parties and lead politicians, ever hungry for power, to adopt this party and its stance. It isn't pretty, but it is, or may be, a way to gain power. Power, that is what is really important. Once a seat of power is established, preferably a strong or wealthy one, not only can socialism take material form in the home country, but also the revolutionary movements abroad can be supported. This can lead possibly to world socialism and then to communism, which, by the way, may not seem so terribly utopian once we riggle free from the chains of capitalism. The USA seems the best fit given these descriptions of a preferable 'host country', shall we call it. But also most any country in western Europe would work (Spain or France would be likely, since both already have 'socialistic' governments in place). Again, not pretty, but it seems, to me anyway, more realistic than any military revolution in a rich capitalist country.
 
:violin :rwbelepha :july_4th: I'm felling very patriotic! Anyone else fell that way 24/7? I'm on this forum to let people know all of your jaws will drop in 2028! Don't mess with independent conservatives! I plan on running.
 
I got into politics when I was 14, and started out as a republican conservative because of my parents. However, last year when George Bush won the election and I was 16 (still 16 now), I changed my perspectives on the world and politics drastically. I am a liberal, and a supporter of socialism although I recognize socialism will never take hold in America currently. The reasons I am a liberal though follow very basic moral principles I abide by that the conservatives are against.
 
jAk said:
I got into politics when I was 14, and started out as a republican conservative because of my parents. However, last year when George Bush won the election and I was 16 (still 16 now), I changed my perspectives on the world and politics drastically. I am a liberal, and a supporter of socialism although I recognize socialism will never take hold in America currently. The reasons I am a liberal though follow very basic moral principles I abide by that the conservatives are against.

HAHAHAHA! Socialism will come one day comrade, just not tommorrow, by the way i became a commie when i was 12, i'm 14 now
 
cavehunter said:
:violin :rwbelepha :july_4th: I'm felling very patriotic! Anyone else fell that way 24/7? I'm on this forum to let people know all of your jaws will drop in 2028! Don't mess with independent conservatives! I plan on running.

Why are you so nationalistic about a country that exploits and hurts countless other people? :shock:
 
Comrade Brian said:
Why are you so nationalistic about a country that exploits and hurts countless other people? :shock:

This is a thread to post about how old one is. Not to bash patriotism.
 
Comrade Brian said:
HAHAHAHA! Socialism will come one day comrade, just not tommorrow, by the way i became a commie when i was 12, i'm 14 now

Welcome comrade. Their seems to be an influx of young teenage communists. Nevertheless I welcome you, but I do hope you are prepared for debate. The "capitalism is bad communism is good" statement won't stand here without very heavy debating and support.


Also, who are your top 3 favorite political leaders?
 
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