• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Possible trump pardons?

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
9,396
Reaction score
4,215
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There is discussion again on talking heads shows about several of the convicted and indicted Trump people being given pardons by Trump. Who do you think should be pardoned and why?
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
57,194
Reaction score
44,093
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I wouldn't pardon any of them, from what is currently publicly known.
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I might pardon hillary and her minions. At least then the shocking lack of equal justice may make some sense.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,555
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
There is discussion again on talking heads shows about several of the convicted and indicted Trump people being given pardons by Trump. Who do you think should be pardoned and why?

Mueller went in knowing these people are all liars. The talking heads might be saying that pardons are coming, but there's these pesky things called states and they can Trump Trumps pardons. Manafort's going to prison either way. Also, what if Mueller let Manafort lie, and let Trump install Whitaker? Now you have Manafort and Whitaker feeding Trump bad info. Trump then based off those lies, answered Mueller's questions. It's the perfect trap for an egomaniac who never admits he is wrong.
 

lwf

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
10,999
Reaction score
6,214
Location
PNW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Also, what if Mueller let Manafort lie, and let Trump install Whitaker? Now you have Manafort and Whitaker feeding Trump bad info. Trump then based off those lies, answered Mueller's questions. It's the perfect trap for an egomaniac who never admits he is wrong.

This is the most likely scenario in my opinion, and par for the course in investigations like these. Liars and double-dealers are far more dangerous to their co-conspirators than the investigator would have ever been if they think the investigator believes they are being honest.
 

Tanngrisnir

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2016
Messages
34,150
Reaction score
15,597
Location
No longer Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

Risky Thicket

Sewer Rat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
31,322
Reaction score
32,597
Location
With Yo Mama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
None of the convicted should be pardoned. However, here is the bottom line. As we all well know Trump does nothing if it does not ultimately benefit Donald J. Trump. If Trump pardons anyone connected to/convicted by the special investigation it will result in a Constitutional crisis. All hell will break loose. Realizing that, Trump will have to assume his net gain in pardoning said people will be worth the massive blow back on him and damage to nation as a whole. If Trump pardons it will be for Trump's ultimate benefit.

In addition, I suspect if Trump pardons people it will be a blanket pardon, everyone all at once: Flynn, Manafort, Don Jr., Ivanka, Jared, Eric, etc. It will also end his presidency long before 2020.

Trump now finds himself between a rock and a hard place. Ain't no way out for him except maybe by resigning.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,555
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
This is the most likely scenario in my opinion, and par for the course in investigations like these. Liars and double-dealers are far more dangerous to their co-conspirators than the investigator would have ever been if they think the investigator believes they are being honest.

I think Mueller knows how to beat Trump methodologically. He has a media strategy too. This press release was from Mueller and it was ONLY the first shot. He hasn't even filed charges against Manafort yet, as far as I am aware. I'm looking for more reports about other Trump henchmen this week that will damage them in the court of public opinion first and then they will be indicted.
 

Tom Horn

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
1,854
Reaction score
207
Location
TEXAS
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
There is discussion again on talking heads shows about several of the convicted and indicted Trump people being given pardons by Trump. Who do you think should be pardoned and why?

Eric Rudolph. Give him a teachers job at Langley.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
76,015
Reaction score
32,124
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
He should pardon every single person Mueller attacked who's crime is not related to 'collusion'. Ad every US citizen should support those pardons, unless you are really excited about law enforcement having carte blanche in attacking citizens without cause.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
49,408
Reaction score
33,329
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
He should pardon every single person Mueller attacked who's crime is not related to 'collusion'. Ad every US citizen should support those pardons, unless you are really excited about law enforcement having carte blanche in attacking citizens without cause.

I figured someone would be along to repeat the same old painfully stupid lie.


(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. s. 600.4(a).


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html





:lamo
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
37,593
Reaction score
24,058
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I opine that Trump issues Mueller related pardons just before the inauguration of POTUS #46.
 

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
9,396
Reaction score
4,215
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
He should pardon every single person Mueller attacked who's crime is not related to 'collusion'. Ad every US citizen should support those pardons, unless you are really excited about law enforcement having carte blanche in attacking citizens without cause.

Just a question, should the FBI and Mueller look the other way when someone commits a crime, even if it did not start with the investigation of the Russian's interference with the 2016 election? Just asking so I know where you stand on crime.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
76,015
Reaction score
32,124
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Just a question, should the FBI and Mueller look the other way when someone commits a crime, even if it did not start with the investigation of the Russian's interference with the 2016 election? Just asking so I know where you stand on crime.
Should the FBI or police have carte blanche to investigate you and every one you know without cause and limit and act on anything they find?
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
76,015
Reaction score
32,124
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I figured someone would be along to repeat the same old painfully stupid lie.


(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. s. 600.4(a).


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html





:lamo
i) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;

You probably shouldnt talk about 'painfully stupid'....

like...at all....
 

tres borrachos

HoHoHo
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
82,828
Reaction score
57,500
Location
Biden's 'Murica
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I think he should pardon Jacob Wohl. That young man does everything short of wiping Trump's rear end after he's been Tweeting on his toilet. He deserves a pardon. Then he can be Trump's cabana boy and massage him in hot oils.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
49,408
Reaction score
33,329
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
i) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;

You probably shouldnt talk about 'painfully stupid'....

like...at all....

read more carefully: You pretended it's about "collusion". Your comment - it's still actually on this page of the thread, you realize? - is triply stupid.

(i) of the letter is far broader than "collusion";

(ii) of the letter says what anyone who has ever pretended to be concerned about government exercise of power should pretend to respect: that if the special counsel uncovers evidence of other crimes, he doesn't turn a blind eye because of (i), or because someone wanted to say something he thought was snappy on the internet.

(iii) of the letter makes the scope of the investigation even broader, since it refers to regulations you've never tried to read. And to summarize, the relevant regulations do things like expand the investigation to any cover-up (be it 'obstruction' or another crime), gives the special counsel the full authority of a US Attorney.....meaning they have to, must, and WILL investigate anything they fine.




I understand that think you're scoring an Internets Point, but you're just making more obvious how idiotically dishonest your whine is.

For once, I invite you to resist the urge to try to throw some blinkered word salad at me to make a show of *getting* me back. You're just wrong. Plain and simple. So stop.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
76,015
Reaction score
32,124
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
read more carefully: You pretended it's about "collusion". Your comment - it's still actually on this page of the thread, you realize? - is triply stupid.

(i) of the letter is far broader than "collusion";

(ii) of the letter says what anyone who has ever pretended to be concerned about government exercise of power should pretend to respect: that if the special counsel uncovers evidence of other crimes, he doesn't turn a blind eye because of (i), or because someone wanted to say something he thought was snappy on the internet.

(iii) of the letter makes the scope of the investigation even broader, since it refers to regulations you've never tried to read. And to summarize, the relevant regulations do things like expand the investigation to any cover-up (be it 'obstruction' or another crime), gives the special counsel the full authority of a US Attorney.....meaning they have to, must, and WILL investigate anything they fine.




I understand that think you're scoring an Internets Point, but you're just making more obvious how idiotically dishonest your whine is.

For once, I invite you to resist the urge to try to throw some blinkered word salad at me to make a show of *getting* me back. You're just wrong. Plain and simple. So stop.
Nothing I can say to you or of you will contribute to the level of stupid you create for yourself.

Or perhaps you can explain how alleged tax records from 2006 are related to Russian Collusion.

GTFOH.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
49,408
Reaction score
33,329
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
read more carefully: You pretended it's about "collusion". Your comment - it's still actually on this page of the thread, you realize? - is triply stupid.

(i) of the letter is far broader than "collusion";

(ii) of the letter says what anyone who has ever pretended to be concerned about government exercise of power should pretend to respect: that if the special counsel uncovers evidence of other crimes, he doesn't turn a blind eye because of (i), or because someone wanted to say something he thought was snappy on the internet.

(iii) of the letter makes the scope of the investigation even broader, since it refers to regulations you've never tried to read. And to summarize, the relevant regulations do things like expand the investigation to any cover-up (be it 'obstruction' or another crime), gives the special counsel the full authority of a US Attorney.....meaning they have to, must, and WILL investigate anything they fine.




I understand that think you're scoring an Internets Point, but you're just making more obvious how idiotically dishonest your whine is.

For once, I invite you to resist the urge to try to throw some blinkered word salad at me to make a show of *getting* me back. You're just wrong. Plain and simple. So stop.

Nothing I can say to you or of you will contribute to the level of stupid you create for yourself.

Or perhaps you can explain how alleged tax records from 2006 are related to Russian Collusion.

GTFOH.

Why are you trying to change the subject?

You pretended it was about collusion. That was a lie (unless you really never looked at the appointment letter, the relevant CFR provisions, or even the history of special counsel investigations). I showed you. I linked to the appointment letter. The words are right there, on the page. Saying snotty words to me don't change what the appointment letter says, what the CFR says, nor do they change what the history of special counsel investigations is.

I won't re-quote the whole exchange because it is still on the last page, but I will quote my last post so that the misdirection in your post is obvious.





No doubt congress was wrong to consider whether to impeach Nixon because he wasn't actually part of the break-in and therefore the cover-up was outside the scope of the investigation. Right?

:roll:
 

lwf

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
10,999
Reaction score
6,214
Location
PNW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Should the FBI or police have carte blanche to investigate you and every one you know without cause and limit and act on anything they find?

That isn't what is happening. Once the FBI determines there is probable cause to launch an investigation, then EVERYTHING that turns up during said investigation becomes fair game. This isn't carte blanche, nor is it a fishing expedition. Russians interfered with the 2016 election using social media with the intent to swing the election to Donald Trump. The primary focus of the investigation is to see if any Americans aided and abetted this act. Donald Trump asked wikileaks to find Hillary's emails. Donald Trump allowed Junior to attend a secret meeting with a Russian lawyer with the intent on obtaining dirt on his opponent. His National Security Advisor had a secret meeting with the Russian ambassador before he even had the job to discuss incoming Russian sanctions. His son in law attempted to set up a secure line of communication with Russian officials that bypassed American intelligence agencies, and also met with the head of a Russian state-owned bank before Trump was even inagurated.

Once the probable cause condition has been met, Mueller's job is to go where the evidence leads him. If it leads him to Trump, we need to know.
 

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
9,396
Reaction score
4,215
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Should the FBI or police have carte blanche to investigate you and every one you know without cause and limit and act on anything they find?

Actually yes, that is what law enforcement is all about, investigating crimes. In this case they were investigating another possible crime, Russian interference in our election and possible collusion and came across these crimes. It is not as if they were doing the primary investigation without cause and in doing so came across other crimes. And yes when they do come across a crime they have carte blanche to investigate any crime they find. Would you expect them to do otherwise? Or is it because they are now investigating GOpers instead of Hillary that you are objecting to this investigation?
 

Grokmaster

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
9,613
Reaction score
2,735
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
There is discussion again on talking heads shows about several of the convicted and indicted Trump people being given pardons by Trump. Who do you think should be pardoned and why?

Let's see..WON'T BE CONVICTED TERRORISTS WHO KILLED PEOPLE WITH BOMBS (Obama)

CONVICTED DRUG LORDS (Obama)

DRUG LORDS again (Clinton)

Convicted international WAR PROFITEER GUN RUNNERS (Clinton)...
 

JackA

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
6,917
Reaction score
2,930
Location
Richmond, VA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The good things are:

A. Trump can't do a damned thing about state law prosecutions.
B. Manafort's plea agreement sacrificed literally all his wealth. No matter what happens, he's a broken, destitute man.

True, and Manafort already has pleaded guilty to crimes under the laws of three states. The pleas are contained in his 175 page plea agreement with Mueller.
 
Top Bottom