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Population Decline

Population Decline


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128shot

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jfuh said:
Perhaps to ppl not of the minority this wouldn't seem racist. However to those of us that are, this is the exact attitude we recieve from racists a$$holes. You're not any better then me because your identity is with your country of origin and not of the US. For a country where everyone (native american excluded) can trace thier roots to originating from another country I don't see how that's any true. Counterperspectively I think it saddening that there is such attitudes that persist into disaknowledging that lineage. It's a disgrace to thier ancestors to have a later generation as such that doesn't recognize thier own roots or disclaim that identity all together.


Gah, I only skimmed his post, taking a few select points out of it.


He must be scared, of something. I see no real problem with immigrants as long as they respect the law of the land and don't ever start my lawn on fire again.
 

tryreading

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jfuh said:
You ****en nazi racist son of a bitch. Go **** yourself in your trailer park wasteland. You truly think you're superior to the rest of us huh? Yea go ahead report me, I don't care about it, you're a racist degenerate white trash piece of ****.

Very well put. On another thread she posted information about how America is losing its 'whiteness.' She is a bigot, and a racist.
 

tryreading

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Stace said:
The intelligence level/education received by a parent, from what I understand, has no real bearing on how smart their offspring will be...

On the flip side of that, there are plenty of folks out there that could be classified as geniuses that end up having rocks-for-brains children.

Case in point: Frank Sinatra Sr. and Frank Jr.
 
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jfuh said:
Melting pot, ring a bell? Why must any immigrant have to assimilate into a so called american culture in order to be american?

Sorry you're not in "insert nation" anymore, this is America.

I'm not disagreeing with the gist of your argument, exactly, but some assimilation is necessary simply to maintain the cohesion of society. Suppose that the many immigrants to have come to America from Eastern Europe, the Far East, Latin America, and the countries they comprise never learned English; moreover, suppose that most of their children did not. Public education would be impossible, and business transactions on any scale- from buying a soda to merging companies- would be difficult at best. The nature of the nation state does demand some degree- a small one- of homogeneity. One could argue that groups of immigrants could keep to themselves, but that is contrary to the spirit of the idea you expressed. Think about what a melting pot is: the original ingredients are all changed a little to form a new and complete dish. To argue that native cultures should be kept completely intact is to argue against ever having allowed them to mix, no?

One who becomes an American is first and foremost American; if he does not want to be, he should not come; if he has a greater allegiance to his old country than to his new one, what on Earth could possess him to remain in the latter? While his ancestral culture has a place in American society, as a part of it, he cannot deny that as an American he is as much a part of the cultures of other immigrants as he is a part of that he brought with him.
 

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tryreading said:
Very well put. On another thread she posted information about how America is losing its 'whiteness.' She is a bigot, and a racist.
I can not stand racism or those touting around with the "You're not american" attitude. Well sorry for having yellow skin I guess I'll never become american if I can't get whiter skin.
I see so many second generation asians trying to fit in to society by trying to be more "white" yet only to be further rejected because lets face it, the attitude and all can change, but with ppl such as Aqua stating as he did of how only White majority resolves issues, the rest of us non-whites will never be seen as american.
How the hell are any of us any different then you? We don't believe in christianity? we're not white? dispicable.
 

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Stupiderthanthou said:
I'm not disagreeing with the gist of your argument, exactly, but some assimilation is necessary simply to maintain the cohesion of society. Suppose that the many immigrants to have come to America from Eastern Europe, the Far East, Latin America, and the countries they comprise never learned English; moreover, suppose that most of their children did not. Public education would be impossible, and business transactions on any scale- from buying a soda to merging companies- would be difficult at best. The nature of the nation state does demand some degree- a small one- of homogeneity. One could argue that groups of immigrants could keep to themselves, but that is contrary to the spirit of the idea you expressed. Think about what a melting pot is: the original ingredients are all changed a little to form a new and complete dish. To argue that native cultures should be kept completely intact is to argue against ever having allowed them to mix, no?
All of which you've stated would be accomplished with simply learning English. Most of us already do that in order to come here in the first place.

Stupiderthanthou said:
One who becomes an American is first and foremost American; if he does not want to be, he should not come; if he has a greater allegiance to his old country than to his new one, what on Earth could possess him to remain in the latter? While his ancestral culture has a place in American society, as a part of it, he cannot deny that as an American he is as much a part of the cultures of other immigrants as he is a part of that he brought with him.
I'm not arguing against allegiance, the pledge of allegiance is what any immigrant wanting to become American citizen says upon naturalization.
I've argued that there is no definition of american culture as it's a multitude of cultures. The plain acceptance of that fact is the ideology held by the founders of the nation. Not the whiteness as so held by Aqua.
 

128shot

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jfuh said:
I can not stand racism or those touting around with the "You're not american" attitude. Well sorry for having yellow skin I guess I'll never become american if I can't get whiter skin.
I see so many second generation asians trying to fit in to society by trying to be more "white" yet only to be further rejected because lets face it, the attitude and all can change, but with ppl such as Aqua stating as he did of how only White majority resolves issues, the rest of us non-whites will never be seen as american.
How the hell are any of us any different then you? We don't believe in christianity? we're not white? dispicable.



you're Asian?


Aside from being good at math (just kidding...), what country do you hail from?
 
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jfuh said:
All of which you've stated would be accomplished with simply learning English. Most of us already do that in order to come here in the first place.

True, but that- learning a new language- represents, to me, at least, a humongous step towards assimilation. The address of the site escapes me at the moment, but I once found a study showing that when Americans move to Britain, everything from their taste in movies to the foods they buy will change before their manner of speaking begins to. In light of this reluctance to change dialects, the learning of an entirely new language represents- to my mind- massive assimilation. If it were to take place naturally (i.e., if the language were picked up over the years rather than consciously studied), it would come long after the trappings of the old culture the language went with had fallen away.

jfuh said:
I'm not arguing against allegiance, the pledge of allegiance is what any immigrant wanting to become American citizen says upon naturalization. I've argued that there is no definition of american culture as it's a multitude of cultures. The plain acceptance of that fact is the ideology held by the founders of the nation. Not the whiteness as so held by Aqua.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I rather thought that you were saying that any cultural assimilation would almost always be the product of intolerance and would therefore be wrong. My apologies.
 

tryreading

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jfuh said:
I can not stand racism or those touting around with the "You're not american" attitude. Well sorry for having yellow skin I guess I'll never become american if I can't get whiter skin.
I see so many second generation asians trying to fit in to society by trying to be more "white" yet only to be further rejected because lets face it, the attitude and all can change, but with ppl such as Aqua stating as he did of how only White majority resolves issues, the rest of us non-whites will never be seen as american.
How the hell are any of us any different then you? We don't believe in christianity? we're not white? dispicable.

That racist attitude is waning here, but very slowly. Generations from now maybe it will be virtually gone. I am white and was raised in a racist atmosphere, but decided early on that the attitude was stupid and wasteful. There's no place for it in my head. But ignorant people cling to the old ideas that make them feel superior to people of other races. It is a pathetic weakness.
 

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Stupiderthanthou said:
It's really a question of how one wants human life to end, isn't it? Do we want our great-grandchildren to sit huddled together in vast, decaying cities watching their kind disappear, or do we want them to destroy each other in some apocalyptic battle over the last of a dwindling supply of resources? The Earth is already overburdened in that it is simply a physical impossibility for all human beings to enjoy the same quality of life as those in the industrialized nations do.

In a perfect world, the human population would have levelled off a couple billion people ago, but obviously that didn't happen. I suppose the best thing, then, would be depopulation; it is the lesser of two evils.

I would have to say that anyone grand enough to choose the lesser of two evils deserves all the luck they have coming to them ,but food for thought ,choose the lesser of two evils for others and you will be part of the elite of America ,.....a gosh darn population decreasing dynamo ,you'll be in a class with law enforcement at the least .......LOSERS ALWAYS COME UP SHORT.....THANK GOD !!!! :roll:
 

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jfuh said:
Perhaps to ppl not of the minority this wouldn't seem racist. However to those of us that are, this is the exact attitude we recieve from racists a$$holes. You're not any better then me because your identity is with your country of origin and not of the US. For a country where everyone (native american excluded) can trace thier roots to originating from another country I don't see how that's any true. Counterperspectively I think it saddening that there is such attitudes that persist into disaknowledging that lineage. It's a disgrace to thier ancestors to have a later generation as such that doesn't recognize thier own roots or disclaim that identity all together.

Other races and nationalities don't value our heritage, customs, legacies, etc. as much as people from here and our own minorities also seem quite eager to trash and get rid of all things American too.

If you would stop being hysterical for a second and think about this logically, it's obvious that anyone who values this country as it is, would not want foreigners to overpopulate it, because America would cease to be the same place. Not about racism.
 

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128shot said:
you're Asian?
Very much so

128shot said:
Aside from being good at math (just kidding...), what country do you hail from?
Formaly ROC, informaly Taiwan.
 

jfuh

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tryreading said:
That racist attitude is waning here, but very slowly. Generations from now maybe it will be virtually gone. I am white and was raised in a racist atmosphere, but decided early on that the attitude was stupid and wasteful. There's no place for it in my head. But ignorant people cling to the old ideas that make them feel superior to people of other races. It is a pathetic weakness.
Explain that to aquapub.
 

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aquapub said:
Other races and nationalities don't value our heritage, customs, legacies, etc. as much as people from here and our own minorities also seem quite eager to trash and get rid of all things American too.
What is the american heritage? what are american customs? What are American legacies? Clearly you've no idea so let me enlighten you. American legacy, heritage, and custom all of which are what coincidentally make the US the strongest nation in the world can all be summed up with one word, diversity. It is the diversity of its people, thier ideas and thier innovation that are all of values which you claim belong to one single race.
You also bring up nationality, a big fallacy because the premise is american nationality.

aquapub said:
If you would stop being hysterical for a second and think about this logically, it's obvious that anyone who values this country as it is, would not want foreigners to overpopulate it, because America would cease to be the same place. Not about racism.
Hysteria by who's standards? I'm sorry you've never stepped into an environment where you were the minority because you'd probably get a good *** beating for an attitude and arrogance like yours.

So let me as you say persue this matter logically.
it's obvious that anyone who values this country as it is, would not want foreigners to overpopulate it
I'm sorry but I never realized that, as per your claim, white americans were indiginous to North America. Perhaps you have a source to back up your claim of this?

I was always under the impression that the US was created upon an immigrant population of a variety of ethnicities and former nationalities all with the common goal of thier individual/collective persuit of freedoms.
 
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Let's be claer and make no mistake about it. It's George Bush's fault.
 

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KCConservative said:
Let's be claer and make no mistake about it. It's George Bush's fault.

Whoa!!! I thought everything from Iraq to the cost of gasoline to global warming to molesting priests was Clinton's fault. :confused:

You righties do this to me on purpose! Just when I think I know who to blame for my flat tire, you guys change the story. :shock:
 

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Captain America said:
Whoa!!! I thought everything from Iraq to the cost of gasoline to global warming to molesting priests was Clinton's fault. :confused:

You righties do this to me on purpose! Just when I think I know who to blame for my flat tire, you guys change the story. :shock:


Way to be inflammatory and useless. :roll:
 

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jfuh said:
What is the american heritage? what are american customs? What are American legacies? Clearly you've no idea so let me enlighten you. American legacy, heritage, and custom all of which are what coincidentally make the US the strongest nation in the world can all be summed up with one word, diversity. It is the diversity of its people, thier ideas and thier innovation that are all of values which you claim belong to one single race.
You also bring up nationality, a big fallacy because the premise is american nationality.


It is not this complicated. Jesus.


People from here are more likely to cherish our own unique heritage and legacies than foreigners. Diversity isn't even in the ballpark of what I am talking about.

You think the average Mexican could give a rat's a$$ about the 4th of July, George Washington, the Declaration of Independance, constitutionalism, separation of church and state, etc., etc.?
 

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aquapub said:
It is not this complicated. Jesus.


People from here are more likely to cherish our own unique heritage and legacies than foreigners. Diversity isn't even in the ballpark of what I am talking about.

You think the average Mexican could give a rat's a$$ about the 4th of July, George Washington, the Declaration of Independance, constitutionalism, separation of church and state, etc., etc.?

And do you really think that half the people in this country care about any of that, either? Most people couldn't even tell you when the Declaration was signed, or name any amendment to the Constitution besides the 1st, 2nd, and 5th. The 4th of July is just another day off of work for cookouts and drinking to most people.

A lot of immigrants to this country care MORE about these things, because they had to EARN the right to the freedoms we provide. Those freedoms weren't just handed to them simply because they were born here like the rest of us.
 

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Stace said:
And do you really think that half the people in this country care about any of that, either? Most people couldn't even tell you when the Declaration was signed, or name any amendment to the Constitution besides the 1st, 2nd, and 5th. The 4th of July is just another day off of work for cookouts and drinking to most people.

A lot of immigrants to this country care MORE about these things, because they had to EARN the right to the freedoms we provide. Those freedoms weren't just handed to them simply because they were born here like the rest of us.


Conservatives care about those things a great deal and can usually cite you any part from any of the founding documents, etc. We study history. But then again, conservatives have affection for their country, hence, they are reluctant to see it changed, whereas liberals (see little/nothing to preserve about this country-which is how they always get labelled, "unpatriotic") and many, many immigrants would have us change all sorts of things about it that make it America.

My stepdad is from Italy. My stepmom is from Tazmania. My great-grandparents are from England. My uncles and one grandfather are from Cuba. There are more, but I suspect you get the picture. I would be willing to bet I understand immigrants better than most people, and my experience teaches me that they are selective about what they want to keep in this country-and, because they aren't from here, a great deal of them would have us change things that mean nothing to them, but mean the world to America and middle America.
 

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jfuh said:
Hysteria by who's standards? I'm sorry you've never stepped into an environment where you were the minority because you'd probably get a good *** beating for an attitude and arrogance like yours.

So let me as you say persue this matter logically.


By the standards of normal, reasonable, mainstream Americans. You are a fringe fanatic.

There is nothing arrogant about wanting to preserve your country's tradition-the only people who would even make such a hysterical argument are fringe fanatics.

I have grown up as a minority nearly everywhere I have been.

If you would quit operating on assumption, you might occasionally get something right.
 

Real Korimyr #9

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Population decline is the death knell of society.

Remember, every economy-- whether capitalist or socialist-- requires having a growing market of people to sell stuff to in order to survive. If the market shrinks, people lose jobs and can't feed their families.

Not to mention, people refusing to have children is decadent; it promotes living only for the present and disregarding the effects our actions will have after we're gone.
 

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Korimyr the Rat said:
Remember, every economy-- whether capitalist or socialist-- requires having a growing market of people to sell stuff to in order to survive. If the market shrinks, people lose jobs and can't feed their families.

Try telling that to the Japanese. Just build robots. Everything will be fine.
 
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Korimyr the Rat said:
Not to mention, people refusing to have children is decadent; it promotes living only for the present and disregarding the effects our actions will have after we're gone.

Of course, those parents in power at present aren't all that concerned with the future, either. Just look at George Bush's plan for the environment.

What do I get by the time I'm old enough to use it? Very little, it seems. What do my kids get? I'd guess nothing. I wish people had a little more foresight.
 

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I think certain cultures have good characteristics that should be kept, ie the Chinese in the bay area are extremely hardworking, and some of the best schools in the area are asian dominated, who's culture usually emphasize on education, and tend to make more.
 
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