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Pope Ratzinger!

vauge said:
Stick to your guns and hold your ground.
Then, put all those sicko priests behind bars and throw away the key that molested the young children.

Forgive them on a spiritual level (as a priest should) and then remove thier collar.
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I think I’d remove their collar first- then work on the forgiveness. And I’d be willing to accept too it may take a long time, maybe never for some (those personally hurt), to ever provide that forgiveness. But I think you’re on the right track.
 
I just received an e-mail from some one informing me that the newly elected Pope was a former member of the Hilter Youth. Anyone know if there's any truth to this rumor? If it's true that's pretty bad. If not it's pretty bad that people start rumors like this about someone just because they don't like his beliefs or religion.
 
Pacridge said:
I just received an e-mail from some one informing me that the newly elected Pope was a former member of the Hilter Youth. Anyone know if there's any truth to this rumor? If it's true that's pretty bad. If not it's pretty bad that people start rumors like this about someone just because they don't like his beliefs or religion.
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Here's the story on Ratzinger's Nazi connections:

When he was 14, he was, involuntarily, forced to join the Hitler Youth, even though he was never a member of the Nazi party. He had already been planning on entering the seminary, and was forced to drop his studies and serve. He was often reprimanded by his commanding officers for failing to show enthusiasm. When he was 17, he was drafted into serving at an Anti-Aircraft unit guarding a BMW plant, until he deserted less than a year later. He escaped toward the western front, and was taken as a prisoner of war by the American troops. After a short time in prison camp, he was released, and immediately reentered the seminary.

It's a case of much ado about nothing. The Jerusalem Post defended his past, saying that he will do much to further strengthen Catholic-Jew relations.
 
satinloveslibs said:
So that all the world will be corrupt and liberal. whoooooooooo
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if you aren't open, the church will become more divided. more europeans will stop coming to church. it isn't a good thing.
 
ShamMol said:
if you aren't open, the church will become more divided. more europeans will stop coming to church. it isn't a good thing.
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Well, I don't know that church attendence is the absolute goal for the Church to have. I mean, you could say "come to church every Sunday for three months and you can go to heaven no matter what" and you could fill the pews... but I don't think that's what they are shooting for.
 
sebastiansdreams said:
Well, I don't know that church attendence is the absolute goal for the Church to have. I mean, you could say "come to church every Sunday for three months and you can go to heaven no matter what" and you could fill the pews... but I don't think that's what they are shooting for.
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They aren't shooting for people attending church? First off, how would they spread the word of Christ? Second and important too, how would they pay the bills at the churches if nobody attends? They rely on those donations....
 
RightatNYU said:
Here's the story on Ratzinger's Nazi connections:

When he was 14, he was, involuntarily, forced to join the Hitler Youth, even though he was never a member of the Nazi party. He had already been planning on entering the seminary, and was forced to drop his studies and serve. He was often reprimanded by his commanding officers for failing to show enthusiasm. When he was 17, he was drafted into serving at an Anti-Aircraft unit guarding a BMW plant, until he deserted less than a year later. He escaped toward the western front, and was taken as a prisoner of war by the American troops. After a short time in prison camp, he was released, and immediately reentered the seminary.

It's a case of much ado about nothing. The Jerusalem Post defended his past, saying that he will do much to further strengthen Catholic-Jew relations.
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This certainly makes more sense then E-Mail I received. I didn’t know they forced young men to join the Hitler Youth. But it makes sense. Maybe this sheds some light on the photos of priests giving the Nazi salute that have been circulating the net as well?
 
ShamMol said:
They aren't shooting for people attending church? First off, how would they spread the word of Christ? Second and important too, how would they pay the bills at the churches if nobody attends? They rely on those donations....
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Yes, they seek to have people follow their faith, but not at the expense of changing an established faith so that it fits the opinion of others just so they raise warm body count. The church, at this point, does not need donation, they have a big enough pocket book to last them a long long time. Furthermore, if you believe that God is in work in any of this, you also have to assume that He will provide for His church without having the Church change its beliefs so that more people can feel like part of the club.
 
sebastiansdreams said:
Yes, they seek to have people follow their faith, but not at the expense of changing an established faith so that it fits the opinion of others just so they raise warm body count. The church, at this point, does not need donation, they have a big enough pocket book to last them a long long time. Furthermore, if you believe that God is in work in any of this, you also have to assume that He will provide for His church without having the Church change its beliefs so that more people can feel like part of the club.
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..umm...most churches, you know parishes, run off donations. I know all the ones in my area do. i agree that it can't change its views just to make more people come, but it can't just rigidly hold its ground either, allowing for no free thought and no independent ideas, such as Rats has done with his chatizing of liberal theologians. but money is necessary to run a great many churches, especially parishes, and if people aren't coming, not enough money to pay the bills will come in.
 
ShamMol said:
Before I left the Church, my pastor told me something that I will never forget. "To question is to be human, and to be right is to be God." None of us are right all the time when it comes to religious issues and none of us are wrong. We all just tend to interpret things differntly, something the Catholic Church has never been comfortable with. This Msgr. told me this because at one point he questioned his faith in the teachings so much due to one issue he left the Church. He made peace with the fact that everyone had to choose for themselves and not just adhere rigidly to doctrine. He is possibly the man I respect the most, and I am not even Catholic. He showed that you didn't have to believe everything people told you.
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The History of the Catholic Church is strewn with the bodies of famous historical figures, including clergy, who decided that they were right and that the Vatican was wrong. And so, they left the Church. Did it make a difference in the teachings of the Church? There is always disappointment at the 'loss of a lamb' and the hope that the lamb would find its way back to the flock, but doctrine changes not a bit to woo them.

The Vatican teaches Catholics the way. The road is often rocky and if their faith is not strong, some prefer to drop out. That is their choice.

But, you knew that, didn't you?
 
Fantasea said:
The History of the Catholic Church is strewn with the bodies of famous historical figures, including clergy, who decided that they were right and that the Vatican was wrong. And so, they left the Church. Did it make a difference in the teachings of the Church? There is always disappointment at the 'loss of a lamb' and the hope that the lamb would find its way back to the flock, but doctrine changes not a bit to woo them.

The Vatican teaches Catholics the way. The road is often rocky and if their faith is not strong, some prefer to drop out. That is their choice.

But, you knew that, didn't you?
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Of course I do, that is why I dropped out, so to speak.
 
ShamMol said:
..umm...most churches, you know parishes, run off donations. I know all the ones in my area do. i agree that it can't change its views just to make more people come, but it can't just rigidly hold its ground either, allowing for no free thought and no independent ideas, such as Rats has done with his chatizing of liberal theologians. but money is necessary to run a great many churches, especially parishes, and if people aren't coming, not enough money to pay the bills will come in.
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So what you're saying is that unless the Church prostitutes itself to the desires of those who can't cut the mustard, as it were, then it will fail. Do I have that correctly?
 
Deus Ex Machina said:
A lot of conversation has arisen that this guy is too conservative -- out of touch with modern times (e.g. issues of women priests, homosexuality, birth control, etc.).

But what people living in the greatest nation on earth fail to realize is that American catholics represent a miniscule percentage of the worldwde catholic population -- I've heard 6 to 9 percent. Which translates to the fact that the opinions of American catholics really don't matter much at all.

Now I'm no fan of religion in general, or the reliance on "faith", or even gods, but if these people are going to have a club, it seems reasonable for them to have a little integrity and stick to their roots. Otherwise there's no point of having a club at all.

If American catholics want their church to follow the lead of the episcopalians on social issues, then why don't they save the world (and the catholic church) from their whining and become episcopalians themselves.

But then, as a filthy infidel, I have the luxury of just watching the drama play out.
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I never cease to be amazed at the number of folks who believe that the Catholic Church is some sort of democratic organization that operates on a show of hands by its members. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

It is an autocratic institution which invites those who will follow its teachings to become members and to remain in good standing so long as inwardly and outwardly they follow its teachings.

All members may exercise their God given free will to leave at any time they cease to follow Church teachings. Any who fall away are welcomed back with open arms so long as they will resume following Church teachings.

What could be simpler? What could be more profound? That is the beauty of the Catholic Church.
 
ShamMol said:
You burn in hell for all eternity-Stewie...gotta love it

But honestly, I was hoping for someone who would be progressive or at least not preach about the Church getting too progressive and how it needs to be taken back...and just to clarify, I wanted a pope from Africa who may have done something about AIDS.
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It seems to me that the African nations with the greatest AIDS problems are those with the worst governments. Is there a connection? I believe so.

How can the Church, or any country, or any institution solve a problem in a sovereign nation, the government of which appears to be content with the status quo?

The first thing that has to be fixed are the governments.
 
Fantasea said:
It seems to me that the African nations with the greatest AIDS problems are those with the worst governments. Is there a connection? I believe so.

How can the Church, or any country, or any institution solve a problem in a sovereign nation, the government of which appears to be content with the status quo?

The first thing that has to be fixed are the governments.
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Could a brother hook me up with a link, cause I got no info on that. All i know is that the catholic church is a very important element in helping to stop the spread of AIDS and with its help, it would be accomplished faster, in my opinion. A cardinal from Africa becoming pope could have helped that.
 
ShamMol said:
Could a brother hook me up with a link, cause I got no info on that. All i know is that the catholic church is a very important element in helping to stop the spread of AIDS and with its help, it would be accomplished faster, in my opinion. A cardinal from Africa becoming pope could have helped that.
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How would the church’s choosing a Pope from Africa slow the spread of Aids?
 
Pacridge said:
This certainly makes more sense then E-Mail I received. I didn’t know they forced young men to join the Hitler Youth. But it makes sense. Maybe this sheds some light on the photos of priests giving the Nazi salute that have been circulating the net as well?
Click to expand...

Hitler Youth became compulsory in 1936, and special attention was paid to those in the seminary. The Nazi's used the Church to full advantage, forcing priests to join their ranks, while at the same time murdering over 3 millions Catholics during the Holocaust. By attempting to make it seem as if the Catholic church supported the Nazi party, they were hoping to sap support for the allies throughout Europe. This manipulation by the Nazis has resulted in the millions of secularists who hate the church because they mistakenly believe that it was willingly complicit in Nazi activities.
 
RightatNYU said:
Hitler Youth became compulsory in 1936, and special attention was paid to those in the seminary. The Nazi's used the Church to full advantage, forcing priests to join their ranks, while at the same time murdering over 3 millions Catholics during the Holocaust. By attempting to make it seem as if the Catholic church supported the Nazi party, they were hoping to sap support for the allies throughout Europe. This manipulation by the Nazis has resulted in the millions of secularists who hate the church because they mistakenly believe that it was willingly complicit in Nazi activities.
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The Nazis, and those who learned to adapt their methods to modern political recruiting, are masters at "head games". The best part is that their unsuspecting targets are flattered into the trap from which they find themselves unable to escape because of an instilled prideful attitude, which is part of the program, that won't let them admit that they were duped.
 
Fantasea said:
The Nazis, and those who learned to adapt their methods to modern political recruiting, are masters at "head games". The best part is that their unsuspecting targets are flattered into the trap from which they find themselves unable to escape because of an instilled prideful attitude, which is part of the program, that won't let them admit that they were duped.
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But they could have learned so much from the Catholics:

"Hello, starving person. I'll give you a little food if you accept my god as your god and reject condoms."
 
Naughty Nurse said:
But they could have learned so much from the Catholics:

"Hello, starving person. I'll give you a little food if you accept my god as your god and reject condoms."
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At least they give them food.

Funny, I don't see many United Atheist Soup Kitchens around NY...

Those who criticize the church for giving spiritual advice while saving their lives by feeding them are ignorant.

If you don't think they should do it, how about you get out there and feed the hundreds of thousands of people that the churches feed every damn day?
 
Pacridge said:
How would the church’s choosing a Pope from Africa slow the spread of Aids?
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Because it might, just might, influenced by the sight of those suffering to allow condom usage or not openly oppose it, it would be a long shot, but a possibility.
 
ShamMol said:
Because it might, just might, influenced by the sight of those suffering to allow condom usage or not openly oppose it, it would be a long shot, but a possibility.
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I see. I guess I can follow that logic.
 
Naughty Nurse said:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
The Nazis, and those who learned to adapt their methods to modern political recruiting, are masters at "head games". The best part is that their unsuspecting targets are flattered into the trap from which they find themselves unable to escape because of an instilled prideful attitude, which is part of the program, that won't let them admit that they were duped.
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But they could have learned so much from the Catholics:

"Hello, starving person. I'll give you a little food if you accept my god as your god and reject condoms."
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Yes, and done however, not in the cold, crass, cruel manner you suggest, but with love and a fervor that has caused thousands of missionaries to give their lives as martyrs.
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ShamMol said:
Because it might, just might, influenced by the sight of those suffering to allow condom usage or not openly oppose it, it would be a long shot, but a possibility.
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One of these days it may sink in that the Church is in it for the long haul. It cannot turn its doctrine off and on like a faucet with the ebb and flow of the times.
 
Fantasea said:
One of these days it may sink in that the Church is in it for the long haul. It cannot turn its doctrine off and on like a faucet with the ebb and flow of the times.
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you know, whatever man, i don't care what you think anymore. i presented my opinion, that's all. it can do whatever the heck it wants and there is nothing that a simpleton like yourself could do to stop it. for all you care it, it could excommunicate you and there would not a thing you could do about it. i just would like to think to like to help people.
 
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