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Pope Ratzinger!

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A lot of conversation has arisen that this guy is too conservative -- out of touch with modern times (e.g. issues of women priests, homosexuality, birth control, etc.).

But what people living in the greatest nation on earth fail to realize is that American catholics represent a miniscule percentage of the worldwde catholic population -- I've heard 6 to 9 percent. Which translates to the fact that the opinions of American catholics really don't matter much at all.

Now I'm no fan of religion in general, or the reliance on "faith", or even gods, but if these people are going to have a club, it seems reasonable for them to have a little integrity and stick to their roots. Otherwise there's no point of having a club at all.

If American catholics want their church to follow the lead of the episcopalians on social issues, then why don't they save the world (and the catholic church) from their whining and become episcopalians themselves.

But then, as a filthy infidel, I have the luxury of just watching the drama play out.
 

Arch Enemy

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I personally have looked into his works and what he's done to deserve this.. but I personally was wanting the Arch Bishop of Milan to win. I've heard that Ratzinger has been quoted as opposing the branched Christan religions, this doesn't leave a good impression with me.. of all the religions the Catholics have the worst reputation and have deserved it.

But I agree, The Papacy should keep with its roots.. has worked for them so far, though people like Urethra Franklin have some sort of conflict against Popes I can only except good things from this one.
 
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Political correctness aside, why the heck shouldn't he oppose the "branch Christian religions"? The reason why they even exist is to oppose (or "protest") some part of catholic teaching.

Fact is, the catholics and the protestants and everything else out there are all in competition for souls -- and more importantly, those souls' dollars!

Free market! It's Coke vs. Pepsi all over again, except that you burn if you buy the wrong product.
 

ShamMol

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You burn in hell for all eternity-Stewie...gotta love it

But honestly, I was hoping for someone who would be progressive or at least not preach about the Church getting too progressive and how it needs to be taken back...and just to clarify, I wanted a pope from Africa who may have done something about AIDS.
 
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So was I ShamMol. Just to shread them to pieces, because these "progressives" are not intellectually honest enough to admit that what they really want is a new religion.

Not preaching, but... just maybe Pope Ratzinger could use a good atheist like myself to be his attack dog or something. :hammer:
 
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sebastiansdreams

Deus Ex Machina said:
So was I ShamMol. Just to shread them to pieces, because these "progressives" are not intellectually honest enough to admit that what they really want is a new religion.

Not preaching, but... just maybe Pope Ratzinger could use a good atheist like myself to be his attack dog or something. :hammer:
That brings up an incredibly interesting question: What would you advise of the new Pope if you had your chance?
 

ShamMol

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sebastiansdreams said:
That brings up an incredibly interesting question: What would you advise of the new Pope if you had your chance?
Four words: Be Open To Change.
 

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I personally was wanting a Latin American pope, he would be better off to be Pope.. Some countries of Latin America know the AIDS problem and I'd guarantee you that he'd defiantly solve it, plus Latin America has the highest Catholic population.

Dues Ex,

Don't be so stereotypical I am proudly part of a church (though I don't agree with everything about that religion) a Southern Baptist Church. People don't have to pay the Church anything and the Church only uses what it has to for it's electricity and plumbing etc. The other goes to the local food raising programs (OCIM), But mainly the extra money if for trips for the church members to go on for example, I went to Venezuela (to help build Church's, entertain with skits and puppets, and of course to see for myself what a good job our media has done to lie about Venezuela.. it's total bullshit) and I only had to pay for bare minimal since the church paid for so much of the trip. Recently the church also paid 500 dollars for the Youth to go on a trip
 
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I don't know if I'm being stereotypical at all.

You see, catholicism is a far different game than what most people (including most catholics) are familiar with.

Catholicism is an all-or-nothing proposition. Everything they believe in rests in a belief that the church's authority structure (the "magisterium" as they call it) derives its teachings from god, and is therefore infallible. By definition, to disagree with a teaching of the church is to no longer be a catholic. Because catholicism is all about authority -- a very different game than the typical protestant notion of faith being based on a personal relationship with god.

Did you ever wonder why the four gospels made it into the bible, while the gospel of Thomas, the Gnostic gospels and countless others didn't make the cut? Did you ever wonder how Jesus became the second person of the trinity rather than a really wise philosopher? Did you ever wonder how the holy spirit somehow became the third person, when scripture only makes a really vague reference to said spirit? The answer is: because the canon of scripture and all essential christian beliefs were decided within the catholic church's authority structure (via the "ecumenical councils").

So given the fundamental emphasis on authority, a believing catholic who understands his/her religion does not demand the revision of their teachings to suit his/her time and tastes.

For those who have such demands, there are plenty of other paths to choose.
 

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sebastiansdreams said:
That brings up an incredibly interesting question: What would you advise of the new Pope if you had your chance?
Stick to your guns and hold your ground.
Then, put all those sicko priests behind bars and throw away the key that molested the young children.

Forgive them on a spiritual level (as a priest should) and then remove thier collar.
 

ShamMol

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vauge said:
Stick to your guns and hold your ground.
Then, put all those sicko priests behind bars and throw away the key that molested the young children.

Forgive them on a spiritual level (as a priest should) and then remove thier collar.
How ironic that our advice is so completely different. I guess it just goes to show the true differences between a conservative and a progressive.
 

ShamMol

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Deus Ex Machina said:
I don't know if I'm being stereotypical at all.

You see, catholicism is a far different game than what most people (including most catholics) are familiar with.

Catholicism is an all-or-nothing proposition. Everything they believe in rests in a belief that the church's authority structure (the "magisterium" as they call it) derives its teachings from god, and is therefore infallible. By definition, to disagree with a teaching of the church is to no longer be a catholic. Because catholicism is all about authority -- a very different game than the typical protestant notion of faith being based on a personal relationship with god.

Did you ever wonder why the four gospels made it into the bible, while the gospel of Thomas, the Gnostic gospels and countless others didn't make the cut? Did you ever wonder how Jesus became the second person of the trinity rather than a really wise philosopher? Did you ever wonder how the holy spirit somehow became the third person, when scripture only makes a really vague reference to said spirit? The answer is: because the canon of scripture and all essential christian beliefs were decided within the catholic church's authority structure (via the "ecumenical councils").

So given the fundamental emphasis on authority, a believing catholic who understands his/her religion does not demand the revision of their teachings to suit his/her time and tastes.

For those who have such demands, there are plenty of other paths to choose.
Before I left the Church, my pastor told me something that I will never forget. "To question is to be human, and to be right is to be God." None of us are right all the time when it comes to religious issues and none of us are wrong. We all just tend to interpret things differntly, something the Catholic Church has never been comfortable with. This Msgr. told me this because at one point he questioned his faith in the teachings so much due to one issue he left the Church. He made peace with the fact that everyone had to choose for themselves and not just adhere rigidly to doctrine. He is possibly the man I respect the most, and I am not even Catholic. He showed that you didn't have to believe everything people told you.
 

anomaly

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Now, I'm no fan of Catholicism, nor do I respect or really care about the Pope at all, but I can't help but wonder, an 84 (I think) year old Pope just died so they elect a 78 year old? Does that make any sense?
 

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Deus Ex Machina said:
Did you ever wonder why the four gospels made it into the bible, while the gospel of Thomas, the Gnostic gospels and countless others didn't make the cut?
Want my theory? or the theory written in Da Vinci Code?
Did you ever wonder how Jesus became the second person of the trinity rather than a really wise philosopher?
What does a really wise philosopher have to do with Christianity or religion in general? I agree that even if Jesus isn't the son of god he's the best damned Prophet of all times.

Did you ever wonder how the holy spirit somehow became the third person, when scripture only makes a really vague reference to said spirit?
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...Holy+Spirit&section=0&version=csb&language=en
That's too many accounts of this said Holy Spirit to be a vauge option.

The answer is: because the canon of scripture and all essential christian beliefs were decided within the catholic church's authority structure (via the "ecumenical councils").
That's the truth right there! Especially when it comes down to Mary Magedlen.

For those who have such demands, there are plenty of other paths to choose.
Which is why Ratzinger is at fault for hating the branches of Christianity? the ones who actually follow what their lord tells them and not what some buffoon dressed in robes say.
 

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anomaly said:
Now, I'm no fan of Catholicism, nor do I respect or really care about the Pope at all, but I can't help but wonder, an 84 (I think) year old Pope just died so they elect a 78 year old? Does that make any sense?
Actually yeah. When someone who has served as long as John Paul II dies, they usually pick someone who will not change much and be there for a short time-unfortunately, this guy fits the bill.
 

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ShamMol said:
Actually yeah. When someone who has served as long as John Paul II dies, they usually pick someone who will not change much and be there for a short time-unfortunately, this guy fits the bill.
It just seems like they picked him expecting he'd die in a few years. Think they have some young future-Pope in waiting, who's not quite ready yet?
 

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anomaly said:
It just seems like they picked him expecting he'd die in a few years. Think they have some young future-Pope in waiting, who's not quite ready yet?
Personally, I don't know the cardinals well enough to say, but I was really hoping for a pope from Africa so that maybe, just maybe, the Church would deal with the AIDS crisis.
 

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ShamMol said:
Personally, I don't know the cardinals well enough to say, but I was really hoping for a pope from Africa so that maybe, just maybe, the Church would deal with the AIDS crisis.
Yeah, I was hoping for a Pope from the global south so he could solve some real problems (the poor state of the global south).
 
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sebastiansdreams

This far we have wishes that the Pope would some how cure AIDS and give money to the global south. Is there anyone who has some sort of faith based wish towards the Pope, or is it all just based on economics and healthcare?
 

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sebastiansdreams said:
This far we have wishes that the Pope would some how cure AIDS and give money to the global south. Is there anyone who has some sort of faith based wish towards the Pope, or is it all just based on economics and healthcare?
I already offered my wish to the pope: Be open to change, wherever it comes from. It doesn't mean he has to change, but he should at the very least be open for it. Now, that isn't anything but hope and faith in the goodwill of man.
 

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anomaly said:
It just seems like they picked him expecting he'd die in a few years. Think they have some young future-Pope in waiting, who's not quite ready yet?
The whole point of it wasn't to prepare any specific "future pope" but to provide a layer of separation between the next important figure and John Paul II. They did it because they felt if they elected a young pope now who had plenty of important plans, he would be compared unfavorably to John Paul II, and they would be stuck with an ineffective pope for 15 years. This way, the next guy they elect will be compared to Benedict XVI, who will likely not be too impressive.
 

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ShamMol said:
Four words: Be Open To Change.
So that all the world will be corrupt and liberal. whoooooooooo
 

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This new pope is ok except the fact of the women preists. That is freakin absurb! Women are just as important as men. I guess some people will never learn.
 
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Originally Posted by Arch Enemy
Which is why Ratzinger is at fault for hating the branches of Christianity? the ones who actually follow what their lord tells them and not what some buffoon dressed in robes say.
Yeah, it seems that "the Lord" tells different people different things. Didn't Jim Jones do what the Lord told him to do? Didn't Mohammed do what the Lord tell him to do? How about David Koresh? And how about King Saul when the Lord told him to exterminate the Amelkites - men, women, children and beasts?

So yippee! There are plenty of faith-filled people out there who listen to voices in their head -- which is, in my opinion, just as idiotic as following a "buffoon dressed in robes."

My points about catholicism were not to be construed as an endorsement. I'm just pointing out the contradictory mentality of catholics who want to invent a new religion, while still remaining catholic.

And for all of us who don't consider ourselves catholic, why should Ratzinger change anything to suit our beliefs and political positions? It's their club -- they've been doing things the same way for two thousand years.
 
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