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Pope in new book says gay people should not join Catholic clergy

TobyOne

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Incorrect. The vast majority of abuse cases weren't pedophilia.

My wife is Catholic.

Decades ago, before getting married, we had to attend marriage classes conducted by the local priest.

I asked him once, "what led him to become a priest?"

Me, coming from an old school southern baptist background, having read and studied the bible "cover-to-cover," (as we say down south,) I was taken back by the priests reply.

The priest, rather than responding, "I was called by the Lord to become a priest. I had no choice in the matter. You must answer when called," like some baptist preacher might say, (and the 60 plus scriptures that address the issue of being "called to preach,") the priest rsponded by saying this. (para-phrased but almost verbatum) "I became a priest because the idea of having to marry a woman scared the hell out of me. Back in my day the honorable way to avoid that was to become a priest." No mention, whatsoever, of "the call" in a biblical sense. He only became a priest in order to avoid having to marry a woman.

Okay. Read in to that as you will. It's pretty obvious to me.

Secondly, why would someone so opposed to marrying a woman, be put in a position to council, encourage, suport and advise me in regards to preparing for "being married to a woman" or anything even having to do with marriage at all?

Thirdly, I have no objections to anyone, straight or gay, following the priesthood should they be so led. But I would encourage them to actually crack open the bible and see what it says about the matter first.

The problem is not "gay priests." The problem is pedophile priests. We should not confuse the two.

Any "gay" indescretions a priest may act upon is between him, his church (job) and God. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

But, the pope is right, technically, discouraging gay men becoming priests. That is to say, he is "right" if his position is mandated by the holy writings of the church he is the figurehead for. A man in his station of life, can take no other position lest he defy the very holy writings he is suppose embody and represent. His hands are tied.

But, the bible also says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." If a gay guy becomes a priest, technically, he might be considered a "sinner" if we were to get all biblical and stuff. But, so is jay walking.

No big deal IMO.

Peace be with you all. Be yourself. I'm okay with that.
 

rocket88

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One has to wonder if becoming a nun doesn't have a certain appeal to closet lesbians, subconsciously.

From my time trying to be a Franciscan Friar, I can tell you that religious life is a draw for gay men.

There have been gay priests since the beginning of the church. I think even given Catholicism's stance on gays, most Catholics have no problem with a gay priest as long as that person keeps their vow. Again, from my time in religious life, I can tell of two Friars who were priests: one had a girlfriend, and one wasn't shy about preferring men, but kept his vows. I know which one was more respected (and which was my confessor).
 

Buzz62

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Yep. The idea is you give up sexual desire for service to god; your sexual orientation shouldn't matter.

Actually...the idea was that removing sex from the clergy removed the chance of there being wives and children to leave any land or possessions to...I believe.
 

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https://thehill.com/homenews/news/4...ys-gay-people-should-not-join-catholic-clergy

Pope Francis wrote in his new book that gay people should not join the Catholic clergy, saying "there’s no room for that kind of affection" in priestly life.

“The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates,” Francis wrote regarding potential priests, The Guardian reports.
======================================
I've lived through enough Catholicism that even as a bisexual signing up to enter the clergy would be the choice just below blowing my brains out.

With a horrible record of priests raping boys, it only stands to reason.
 

Waddy

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Prohibition never conforms to reality. Look what alcohol prohibition accomplished: nearly every one became a scofflaw.

Whether you think it works or not isn't your call. The Catholics get to decide their policy and what works for them.
 

bearpoker

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Why are you lying.... He said "Gay people shouldn't be priests IF THEY CANNOT REMAIN CELIBATE"

As in he doesn't want bunch of gay priests forming sex clubs.

Because that would be so much worse than a bunch of straight priests forming sex clubs? The problem is not with sexual orientation. It's with predatory sexual behavior, whether the actor is gay or straight. To call out those of one orientation and not the other is scapegoating.
 

TurtleDude

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One has to wonder if becoming a nun doesn't have a certain appeal to closet lesbians, subconsciously.

you actually make a good point. I think in past eras, a woman who was not married by say 25 or so, had a hard time explaining why. Even more so than a man. So the convent would be a way of not having to answer that when the alternative would have brought-in some societies-brutal condemnation.
 

TurtleDude

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Because that would be so much worse than a bunch of straight priests forming sex clubs? The problem is not with sexual orientation. It's with predatory sexual behavior, whether the actor is gay or straight. To call out those of one orientation and not the other is scapegoating.

why is it though-that we have heard tons of cases of Catholic (ie allegedly celibate) priests who have molested boys-some pre pubescent (ie pedophiliac behavior) or older boys (homosexual molestation) while the cases of say Episcopal priests, Baptist preachers, Rabbis, etc engaging in either homosexual predation or heterosexual rape are few and far between. I never realized-despite the publicity-how many cases there were of priest on boy cases until I was part of a trial team prosecuting a two decade old molestation case
 

Wayne Jr

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https://thehill.com/homenews/news/4...ys-gay-people-should-not-join-catholic-clergy

Pope Francis wrote in his new book that gay people should not join the Catholic clergy, saying "there’s no room for that kind of affection" in priestly life.

“The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates,” Francis wrote regarding potential priests, The Guardian reports.
======================================
I've lived through enough Catholicism that even as a bisexual signing up to enter the clergy would be the choice just below blowing my brains out.

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Hatuey

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On one hand, the church finds it unnatural to be a homosexual for one's entire life.
On the other, the church finds it completely natural to ask human beings to remain without sex their entire lives.

These people do not understand the world better than any of their followers.
 

Mr Person

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On one hand, the church finds it unnatural to be a homosexual for one's entire life.
On the other, the church finds it completely natural to ask human beings to remain without sex their entire lives.

These people do not understand the world better than any of their followers.

Oh, they weren't trying to understand anything.






I suspect I preach to the choir....
 

Kobie

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On one hand, the church finds it unnatural to be a homosexual for one's entire life.
On the other, the church finds it completely natural to ask human beings to remain without sex their entire lives.

These people do not understand the world better than any of their followers.

The church finds it completely natural to ask its own leaders to remain without sex for their entire lives. Obviously, that hasn't worked out so well.
 

bearpoker

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why is it though-that we have heard tons of cases of Catholic (ie allegedly celibate) priests who have molested boys-some pre pubescent (ie pedophiliac behavior) or older boys (homosexual molestation) while the cases of say Episcopal priests, Baptist preachers, Rabbis, etc engaging in either homosexual predation or heterosexual rape are few and far between. I never realized-despite the publicity-how many cases there were of priest on boy cases until I was part of a trial team prosecuting a two decade old molestation case

My theory is that the requirement of celibacy favors and fosters this behavior. These men are separated from their birth families and forbidden to start families of their own. Their professional and personal ties are within the celibate community which becomes their family. This is conducive to cover-up just as in some police departments that cover up wrongdoing by their members. The repression of sexuality and the shame associated with it means the victims are less likely to come forward and to be believed when they do. There is also the power imbalance inherent in a hierarchical structure that enables higher ranking men to prey on their subordinates.
 

dirtpoorchris

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Because that would be so much worse than a bunch of straight priests forming sex clubs? The problem is not with sexual orientation. It's with predatory sexual behavior, whether the actor is gay or straight. To call out those of one orientation and not the other is scapegoating.

He said that GAY PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE PRIESTS IF THEY CANT REMAIN CELIBATE. Go ahead and misconstrue it anyway you want just like the OP.
 

bearpoker

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He said that GAY PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE PRIESTS IF THEY CANT REMAIN CELIBATE. Go ahead and misconstrue it anyway you want just like the OP.

What about straight people who can't remain celibate? Is it ok for them to be priests?
 

Hatuey

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He said that GAY PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE PRIESTS IF THEY CANT REMAIN CELIBATE. Go ahead and misconstrue it anyway you want just like the OP.
Criteria for the Discernment of Vocation for Persons with Homosexual Tendencies

The Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question ["persons with homosexual tendencies"], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture." Such persons find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of deep-seated homosexual tendencies."

2 of 3 existing disqualifiers for priesthood have absolutely nothing with celibacy.

You're wrong. Don't make it long and drawn out, just accept it and move long.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

dirtpoorchris

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Hatuey

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Well look at the popes words. He said, "If gays cannot be celibate they should not be in the priesthood"
Lmao, I am quoting the Vatican's edict on what disqualifies a person from becoming a priest!

The pope has no problem with gay people, he just has a problem with gay people being, acting, thinking, defending or 'promoting' gayness while being priests. The space where you think the pope only cares about celibacy is non-existent because of the aforementioned disqualifiers.

Seriously, move along, you gonna try to tell me that your news article trumps an official and current Vatican statement?

Get serious, lick your wounds, don't double down.





Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

Wayne Jr

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On one hand, the church finds it unnatural to be a homosexual for one's entire life.
On the other, the church finds it completely natural to ask human beings to remain without sex their entire lives.

These people do not understand the world better than any of their followers.

The Pope wants gay men to "repent" a condition God afflicted them with, which they have no control over, and for these gay men to take wives and have sex with them. It's all as silly as the Pope's hat. It's not supposed to make sense, it's religion.
 
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