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Pope Francis excommunicates dissident priest in Australia

phattonez said:
Yes. The fact that these people are Catholics apparently in good standing means that the lay faithful will get the idea that abortion maybe isn't that bad.
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Biden and Feinstein are Catholics by name only. I doubt it would affect them in any way.
 
Surtr said:
Biden and Feinstein are Catholics by name only. I doubt it would affect them in any way.
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Maybe it will, maybe it won't. There's a very good chance that it would send a message to those Catholics who are scandalized by their good standing or those Catholics who are thinking about having an abortion.
 
phattonez said:
You tell me what's worse: the SSPX who openly disobey Rome because of disagreements about the Mass, or politicians like Biden and Pelosi who say they are loyal to Rome but approve of the wholesale slaughter of millions of innocent babies?
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SSPX actively teaches heresy by denying papal infallibility, and they regularly desecrate the sacraments by performing them illicitly.
 
phattonez said:
Excommunication is far more loving than tacit approval.
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Not every sin is grounds for excommunication. Heresy is.

I'm not saying Biden isn't a sinner, what I am saying is you're falling into the trap the Holy Father is talking about. You're so obsessed with this single issue.

You're advocating excommunication for commonplace sin yet you're willing to give a pass to heretics.

Now that's backwards, my friend.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
Not every sin is grounds for excommunication. Heresy is.

I'm not saying Biden isn't a sinner, what I am saying is you're falling into the trap the Holy Father is talking about. You're so obsessed with this single issue.

You're advocating excommunication for commonplace sin yet you're willing to give a pass to heretics.

Now that's backwards, my friend.
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Enabling the wholesale slaughter of innocents is a "commonplace" sin? wtf.gif
 
The Catholic church would NEVER excommunicate a powerful catholic political figure unless said individual forced their hand with extreme public heresy. They aren't about to deliberately undermine their influence of national governments for some minor infractions. The church didn't last for 1700 years by pissing on their members in positions of power.

Lets suppose that some posters got their wish and Pelosi or Biden got excommunicated. Every catholic politician in the country would have their loyalty questioned with the same lines that Kennedy had to face. The Supreme's would have to either recuse themselves from any case related to church morality or publicly swear they'd reject papal authority even if it meant getting excommunicated. In the worst case, the backlash could be so bad that someone enforces the normally ignored law that strips tax exempt status from organizations who do to much politicking.
 
rathi said:
The Catholic church would NEVER excommunicate a powerful catholic political figure unless said individual forced their hand with extreme public heresy. They aren't about to deliberately undermine their influence of national governments for some minor infractions. The church didn't last for 1700 years by pissing on their members in positions of power.

Lets suppose that some posters got their wish and Pelosi or Biden got excommunicated. Every catholic politician in the country would have their loyalty questioned with the same lines that Kennedy had to face. The Supreme's would have to either recuse themselves from any case related to church morality or publicly swear they'd reject papal authority even if it meant getting excommunicated. In the worst case, the backlash could be so bad that someone enforces the normally ignored law that strips tax exempt status from organizations who do to much politicking.
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All heretics are always excommunicated latae sententiae.
 
phattonez said:
Could we start by getting rid of all of the guitar bands from our churches? That's where I'd like to begin. :)
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I'll have to disagree. Contemporary services/instruments aren't for everyone, but I have seen for myself that they often "reach" those who otherwise might not be reached. Most churches offer a choice between traditional and non-traditional. And if on, on occasion there is a little cross-over and that the services is the "other," this is a great opportunity to grow just a little, isn't it?
 
If, you want further proof of my thesis, just look a Gingrich. Married 3 times, each time having affair with his mistress before marrying her. Still doesn't prevent him from being a catholic in good standing.
 
Guy Incognito said:
SSPX actively teaches heresy by denying papal infallibility, and they regularly desecrate the sacraments by performing them illicitly.
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And Biden and Pelosi actively teach murder, allow it, and encourage it. Yet there's no excommunication there?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Not every sin is grounds for excommunication. Heresy is.

I'm not saying Biden isn't a sinner, what I am saying is you're falling into the trap the Holy Father is talking about. You're so obsessed with this single issue.

You're advocating excommunication for commonplace sin yet you're willing to give a pass to heretics.

Now that's backwards, my friend.
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For sinners? No. These are people in public, with great public sway, and they are explicitly opposed to Church teaching. These people are dangerous, and excommunication is fitting.
 
Guy Incognito said:
You are also falling into the trap our Holy Father is warning us about.

Thank God for Pope Francis. He was so needed right now. You should listen to the Holy Father, Gathosmas.
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Yeah, I'm so thankful that Pope Francis apparently thinks that the loneliness of the old and unemployment of the youth is a more important evil than the murder of millions of innocent children.
 
rathi said:
If, you want further proof of my thesis, just look a Gingrich. Married 3 times, each time having affair with his mistress before marrying her. Still doesn't prevent him from being a catholic in good standing.
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I'm pretty sure that this would prevent him from receiving Communion, unless by some absurd technicality he's gotten annulments.
 
nota bene said:
I'll have to disagree. Contemporary services/instruments aren't for everyone, but I have seen for myself that they often "reach" those who otherwise might not be reached. Most churches offer a choice between traditional and non-traditional. And if on, on occasion there is a little cross-over and that the services is the "other," this is a great opportunity to grow just a little, isn't it?
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From my experience, the option is usually banal noise or no singing. Chant, or even an organ is extremely difficult to find by comparison.
 
Sometimes it is. I try to remind myself, though, that what the Lord hears is a "joyful noise" whose notes are coming from hearts rather than voices and instruments.
 
phattonez said:
And Biden and Pelosi actively teach murder, allow it, and encourage it. Yet there's no excommunication there?
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That's just not how it works. There are only certain sins that incur the penalty of excommunication, and for good reason.
 
phattonez said:
Yeah, I'm so thankful that Pope Francis apparently thinks that the loneliness of the old and unemployment of the youth is a more important evil than the murder of millions of innocent children.
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And now you're denigrating the Holy Father??

Talk to a priest about this problem of yours. I think you are beyond my help.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
:caution: :alert the Pope is still against gay marriage???? Don't tell the liberals around here, they will lose there ammo against me. ;)
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:lol: Did anybody actually think that Francis supported gay marriage?
 
davidtaylorjr said:
People use the Pope all the time to counter my stance on gay marriage so apparently.
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Those people just don't read very carefully, I guess:shrug:

All the Pope is saying is that we need to treat homosexuals with tolerance, love and respect at all times.
 
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