Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples

[poweRob]

I guess because of this plus the Pope's recent condemnation of capitalism's handling during the epidemic means Catholic Republicans should be denied communion right? I mean that's how they treat Democratic politicians who are Catholic when they don't hold a repubilcan policy dear enough.

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples | CNN

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

www.cnn.com

​

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency. The Pope made the historic remarks in a new documentary film, "Francesco," which was released in Rome on Wednesday.​

​

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They're children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it," the Pope said in the film, the Catholic News Agency reported.​

 

[Luce]

American Catholic meltdown in 3...2...1...

 

[Quag]

Dang and Mash has been banned

 

[Napoleon]

I guess because of this plus the Pope's recent condemnation of capitalism's handling during the epidemic means Catholic Republicans should be denied communion right? I mean that's how they treat Democratic politicians who are Catholic when they don't hold a repubilcan policy dear enough.

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples | CNN

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

www.cnn.com

​

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency. The Pope made the historic remarks in a new documentary film, "Francesco," which was released in Rome on Wednesday.​

​

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They're children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it," the Pope said in the film, the Catholic News Agency reported.​

Not quite. I don’t know of any Democratic politicians who have been excommunicated by their presiding Bishop. And, while I’m happy that the Pope believes in some albeit an unequal accommodation, it’s not an ex cathedra declaration so no one is required to share in his view.

 

[poweRob]

Not quite. I don’t know of any Democratic politicians who have been excommunicated by their presiding Bishop. And, while I’m happy that the Pope believes in some albeit an unequal accommodation, it’s not an ex cathedra declaration so no one is required to share in his view.

I didn't say excommunicated. Several times there have been republican calls that Dem politicians get denied communion because of abortion policies.

 

[Napoleon]

I didn't say excommunicated. Several times there have been republican calls that Dem politicians get denied communion because of abortion policies.

That’s what excommunication is.

 

[poweRob]

That’s what excommunication is.

I'm not Catholic but I don't think that's true. I do know that if you are excommunicated you cannot receive Holy Communion but if you are simply denied Holy Communion doesn't mean you are excommunicated because I do believe excommunication involves are formal action from the church.

 

[Napoleon]

I'm not Catholic but I don't think that's true. I do know that if you are excommunicated you cannot receive Holy Communion but if you are simply denied Holy Communion doesn't mean you are excommunicated because I do believe excommunication involves are formal action from the church.

Excommunication means that a person is no longer permitted to participate in the sacrament of the Eucharist aka communion. You can’t be denied communion by the clergy without being formally declared as excommunicated by the Bishop.

 

[poweRob]

Excommunication means that a person is no longer permitted to participate in the sacrament of the Eucharist aka communion. You can’t be denied communion without being formally declared as excommunicated by the Bishop.

If you are denied communion by a specific priest doesn't mean the church as a whole excommunicated you.

 

[Napoleon]

If you are denied communion by a specific priest doesn't mean the church as a whole excommunicated you.

That is correct, but a priest has no authority to deny communion without a formal declaration from their Bishop. That would be a violation of canon law and the priest can/would be punished for it. The Catholic Church doesn’t operate like the Protestant or Evangelical hucksters where anyone can throw on a stole and make those decisions.

 

[poweRob]

That is correct, but a priest has no authority to deny communion without a formal declaration from their Bishop. That would be a violation of canon law and the priest can/would be punished for it. The Catholic Church doesn’t operate like the Protestant or Evangelical hucksters where anyone can throw on a stole and make those decisions.

Catholic priest says he denied Joe Biden Holy Communion at Mass in South Carolina because of abortion views

"Any public figure who advocates for abortion places himself or herself outside of Church teaching." Rev. Robert Morey said in a statement.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Lursa]

I guess because of this plus the Pope's recent condemnation of capitalism's handling during the epidemic means Catholic Republicans should be denied communion right? I mean that's how they treat Democratic politicians who are Catholic when they don't hold a repubilcan policy dear enough.

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples | CNN

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

www.cnn.com

​

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency. The Pope made the historic remarks in a new documentary film, "Francesco," which was released in Rome on Wednesday.​

​

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They're children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it," the Pope said in the film, the Catholic News Agency reported.​

And his quoted reason is one that I've used here many times. Although historically the Catholic Church has been horrifically violent and repressive, coercive, and intolerant, I've constantly decried it as intentionally misinterpreting God's Word for its own controlling, avaricious purposes.

What this Pope said is much more in line with what a compassionate God (or person) would endorse.

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They're children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it," the Pope said in the film, the Catholic News Agency reported."

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples | CNN

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

www.cnn.com

I'm sure we'll see the most extreme fundie Catholics here, that follow it like a cult, claim that this Pope is not a true Catholic. That's their go-to position when confronted with realities about their cult.

 

[Lursa]

Not quite. I don’t know of any Democratic politicians who have been excommunicated by their presiding Bishop. And, while I’m happy that the Pope believes in some albeit an unequal accommodation, it’s not an ex cathedra declaration so no one is required to share in his view.

I thought the Pope was God's Messenger here on earth? Is he or isnt he?

 

[Napoleon]

Catholic priest says he denied Joe Biden Holy Communion at Mass in South Carolina because of abortion views

"Any public figure who advocates for abortion places himself or herself outside of Church teaching." Rev. Robert Morey said in a statement.

www.usatoday.com

And the position of that priest was supported by both the Bishop and ArchBishop he is accountable to in a formal directive. Though it’s important to keep in mind that such directives are only valid within the diocese they are issued. The Cardinal of the Archdiocese of New York for example said that he would not have done such a thing.

 

[Lursa]

I'm not Catholic but I don't think that's true. I do know that if you are excommunicated you cannot receive Holy Communion but if you are simply denied Holy Communion doesn't mean you are excommunicated because I do believe excommunication involves are formal action from the church.

And you cant get married in the church or have your kids baptized in the church, etc.

 

[Napoleon]

I thought the Pope was God's Messenger here on earth? Is he or isnt he?

Even the Pope is not considered infallible in his views and statements all of the time. Only those expressed ex cathedra are considered infallible.

 

[Lursa]

Even the Pope is not considered infallible in his views and statements all of the time. Only those expressed ex cathedra are considered infallible.

So I guess we should all go with admiring the more hateful view eh? Hold your head up Catholics! Some of your most assimilated subjects will continue to spew useless hate against people who are doing nothing wrong!

That's just another excuse to make up crap that allows some Catholics to stick with mistinterpretations of God's Word. Make more fake rules. There's NO pope even in the Bible...he was made up as "God here on earth" to impose more intimidation and control and then when you couldnt control everything he says (all popes), you had to make up MORE rules to cover up for it. Such BS.

God's Word is very very simple: compassion, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love.

Anything that doesnt break that Word is not a sin and is not immoral.

 

[Napoleon]

So I guess we should all go with admiring the more hateful view eh? Hold your head up Catholics! Some of your most assimilated subjects will continue to spew useless hate against people who are doing nothing wrong!

That's just another excuse to make up crap that allows some Catholics to stick with mistinterpretations of God's Word. Make more fake rules. There's NO pope even in the Bible...he was made up as "God here on earth" to impose more intimidation and control and then when you couldnt control everything he says (all popes), you had to make up MORE rules to cover up for it. Such BS.

God's Word is very very simple: compassion, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love.

Anything that doesnt break that Word is not a sin and is not immoral.

The Catholic Church discourages “spewing hate” as a violation of the dignity of the person among other things. As a gay person, I don’t think the actual position of the Church on this is “hateful.” It doesn’t consider any marriage as legitimate merely for having been sanctioned by the State. It is a purely scaremantal/religious institution with parameters defined by God. It’s that simple and I’m not interested in rehashing the Protestant Reformation with you...at least not in this thread.

 

[nota bene]

I guess because of this plus the Pope's recent condemnation of capitalism's handling during the epidemic means Catholic Republicans should be denied communion right? I mean that's how they treat Democratic politicians who are Catholic when they don't hold a repubilcan policy dear enough.

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples | CNN

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

www.cnn.com

​

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency. The Pope made the historic remarks in a new documentary film, "Francesco," which was released in Rome on Wednesday.​

​

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They're children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it," the Pope said in the film, the Catholic News Agency reported.​

Two points:
(1) Being denied the Sacrament has nothing to do with political affiliation and everything to do with Church dogma.
(2) Anglicans and Catholics regard marriage as a Sacrament. Civil unions, while qualifying as legal marriages, are not Sacramental.

 

[nota bene]

So I guess we should all go with admiring the more hateful view eh? Hold your head up Catholics! Some of your most assimilated subjects will continue to spew useless hate against people who are doing nothing wrong!

That's just another excuse to make up crap that allows some Catholics to stick with mistinterpretations of God's Word. Make more fake rules. There's NO pope even in the Bible...he was made up as "God here on earth" to impose more intimidation and control and then when you couldnt control everything he says (all popes), you had to make up MORE rules to cover up for it. Such BS.

God's Word is very very simple: compassion, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love.

Anything that doesnt break that Word is not a sin and is not immoral.

What do you suppose Jesus meant with the Peter and his being the rock business?

And I think you've oversimplified "God's Word." We are not to judge, but there will be Judgment. It's not all about peace, love, and hippie flowers.

 

[Napoleon]

What do you suppose Jesus meant with the Peter and his being the rock business?

And I think you've oversimplified "God's Word." We are not to judge, but there will be Judgment. It's not all about peace, love, and hippie flowers.

Well, on the first point, papal supremacy isn’t something that really happened until the 5th or 6th century and it’s something that has been the subject of ecumenical debate even within the Church all the way through the 20th century.

 

[Lursa]

And his quoted reason is one that I've used here many times. Although historically the Catholic Church has been horrifically violent and repressive, coercive, and intolerant, I've constantly decried it as intentionally misinterpreting God's Word for its own controlling, avaricious purposes.

What this Pope said is much more in line with what a compassionate God (or person) would endorse.

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples | CNN

Pope Francis has declared support for civil unions for same-sex couples for the first time, according to the Catholic News Agency.

www.cnn.com

I'm sure we'll see the most extreme fundie Catholics here, that follow it like a cult, claim that this Pope is not a true Catholic. That's their go-to position when confronted with realities about their cult.

What do you suppose Jesus meant with the Peter and his being the rock business?

And I think you've oversimplified "God's Word." We are not to judge, but there will be Judgment. It's not all about peace, love, and hippie flowers.

My posting of God's Word is not oversimplified. The Bible was written by fallible men of the time. THey made many misinterpretations, some intentional, some not. Some were even with the best of intentions I'm sure. The Catholic Church is the prime example of a lot of sins just being made up. Abortion is not in the Bible anywhere. Neither is allowing a husband to rape his wife.

Anything that does not break God's Word is not a sin or immoral. It's made up...intentionally or accidentally. There's no doubt that organized religion is all about using God's Word to teach and control populations. Of course it was written and used that way.

And I dont remember Jesus, Peter, and the rock.

 

[Napoleon]

My posting of God's Word is not oversimplified. The Bible was written by fallible men of the time. THey made many misinterpretations, some intentional, some not. Some were even with the best of intentions I'm sure. The Catholic Church is the prime example of a lot of sins just being made up. Abortion is not in the Bible anywhere. Neither is allowing a husband to rape his wife.

Anything that does not break God's Word is not a sin or immoral. It's made up...intentionally or accidentally. There's no doubt that organized religion is all about using God's Word to teach and control populations. Of course it was written and used that way.

And I dont remember Jesus, Peter, and the rock.

It’s rather convenient that you can arbitrarily decide which parts of “God’s Word” are or are not the product of fallible minds. Indeed, if you yourself are fallible then your interpretation compounds the problem of what you assert to be an already fallible text. The position of the Catholic Church on the 5th Commandment and various related verses is unimpeachable. No abortion and no death penalty.

 

[Lursa]

The Catholic Church discourages “spewing hate” as a violation of the dignity of the person among other things. As a gay person, I don’t think the actual position of the Church on this is “hateful.” It doesn’t consider any marriage as legitimate merely for having been sanctioned by the State. It is a purely scaremantal/religious institution with parameters defined by God. It’s that simple and I’m not interested in rehashing the Protestant Reformation with you...at least not in this thread.

However the Catholic Church has a history of violence, coercion, hate, torture, repression, etc. And that hate and repression and coercion continue today. Hard to preach against it today, then isnt it?

And you bring up a very good point, one that I brought up when the issue was still being debated and gay marriage was still mostly illegal. It was the various religious faiths, including the Catholics, that spoke out so vehemently against it. Paid $$ into campaigns to convince voters against it.

When as you wrote...and I also at the time...all they had to do was recognize that some sacrament in God's Eyes should have nothing to do with the legal and social benefits accorded by the govt. They could all get 'married' in their various churches. Govt sanction by no means affects the sanctity of that. And yet...they fought...out of hate and intolerance.

 

[Lursa]

It’s rather convenient that you can arbitrarily decide which parts of “God’s Word” are or are not the product of fallible minds. Indeed, if you yourself are fallible then your interpretation compounds the problem of what you assert to be an already fallible text. The position of the Catholic Church on the 5th Commandment and various related verses is unimpeachable. No abortion and no death penalty.

Are you disputing that what I wrote is God's Word? What do you think it is?

And of course all men are fallible...even God said so

I dont give a shit about what the RCC thinks about anything...I find it a horrific, violent, greedy, historically and currently damaging cult. It sits on billions in assets, its upper hierarchy live in luxury...while millions of its followers starve. And it's manipulated to the extreme sexual behavior in order to maximize producing more hands to put more $$ in its collection plates. It's done humanity a horrible disservice. Other religions have done much the same, but not to the same pure, focused level.

And I am a practicing United Methodist.