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Poor vs Rich Republicans and Democrats

Cyrylek said:
Restrict economic freedoms further, and perhaps only one of her two jobs will remain available. And her food stamps will buys less, because prices of food will be higher.
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Sorry buddy, but the 80's are over. Trickle down economics does not actually work at all. Helping her get an education, and helping her younger self get access to birth control might have though.
 
David_N said:
What does "more freedom" even mean? No more environmental regulations? ..
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Yeah - also: no traffic lights! Don't be obtuse.

More freedom means more freedom. Freedom of trade, freedom of movement, freedom of investment. Moving in the direction opposite to where Trump and Sanders are dragging us. Every time Uber is allowed to operate in another city, every time a nail care salon opens without the need for expensive licensing, every time a tariff or a tax is abolished, etc, there is an tiny increase of freedom - in the ability of people to work together and enrich each other. What's so hard to understand?

(As for environmental regulations - it depends on what we are talking about. Toxic pollution is one thing; condemning whole industries to a phase-out based on the "climate change" paranoia is something else altogether).
 
Cyrylek said:
Expanding demand is created by increased supply.
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False.


Cyrylek said:
There was no demand for iPhones before iPhones were invented, developed and manufactured
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Have you seriously never seen Star Trek?

Apparently you didn't get the memo, but the saying goes "necessity is the mother of invention" not "invention is the mother of necessity"
 
Cyrylek said:
Expanding demand is created by increased supply. There was no demand for iPhones before iPhones were invented, developed and manufactured - which required long-term investment. Perpetually spending what we earn on what is immediately available would mean still sitting in caves and trading stones and sticks.

And we are not talking about some exorbitant levels of savings - just basic, common-sense prudence. Make sure your savings are growing at a steady rate, that's all. This is not how most Americans behave these days.

(As for the rich not doing massive investment - of course they are doing exactly that. There's only one problem: Not enough rich people in the world).
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Are you seriously arguing that supply creates demand? This has been thrown out as nonsense decades ago. The entire world, Europe, the US, Japan, experiencing depressed demand with massive amounts of savings and a growing wealth gap. Where is the investment? Where's the massive amount of jobs? It's not happening, for obvious reasons. Not enough demand. People not making enough. Your iPhone example is silly. No one is saying we should eliminate long term investment. Lots of investment is done not from savings, but from going into debt. So there goes that one. And net savings already takes into account potential investment. The fact is, saving is a drain on the economy at any given time, so to prevent the economy shrinking, the government needs to step in with a deficit. We do this right now, but it's far to small and not aimed at the right goals. It doesn't help that idiots are pushing austerity on countries with high unemployment rates and low demand. It's insanity. It's suicide. And it's failing so badly, that central banks are looking towards simply giving money to people, which probably needs to happen. We're trapped, interest rates can't be cut anymore, banks already have excess reserves, which they can't even lend to people who want to invest regardless. You have to understand. At any given time, savings cannot surpass or be to great, or the economy shrinks. Investment has to surpass savings. Your last point about rich people and investment made me laugh out loud. So apparently rich people are doing massive investment and wages are stagnant, and demand is depressed. Countries doing austerity are worse off. We got out of the recent crisis thanks to the government continuing to run a deficit and our automatic stabilizers. We could be like Europe right now. Thank god we're not that stupid. And back to the point about IPhones.. The iPhone was an idea and would get nowhere if consumers didn't demand it, which led to the creation of iPhones to sell to the individuals who were DEMANDING THEM. Businesses aren't going to create products when their is no demand.
 
gdgyva said:
my vote will be more against Hillary than for Trump

in my opinion, we cant afford Hillary after eight years of Obama
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In my opinion we cannot afford either one of them.
 
MrWonka said:
Sorry buddy, but the 80's are over. Trickle down economics does not actually work at all. Helping her get an education, and helping her younger self get access to birth control might have though.
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It's not about "trickle down economics", it is pure common sense. Low-level jobs are predominantly in low-margin industries. Increase the minimum wage or slap an additional regulatory burden on a restaurant or a laundry, she is priced out. And when the same happens to food producers and distributors, they also cut positions, or compensate by raising prices, or both. The scope of these effects varies from one place to another, but the vector of pressure is unmistakable.

As for "getting education" - sure, but what exactly do we mean by "education"? Compare the expensive and time-consuming Master degree in feminist studies and a year of apprenticeship as an electrician. Which is "education", really?
 
Riveroaks said:
Poor Republicans (making less than $250K taxable income per year) are not true Republicans they are instead Republican wanna be's.

Rich Republicans (making over $250K) are true Republicans. They are motivated by self interest and the GOP benefits them.

Poor Democrats (under $250K) are true Democrats. They too are benefitted by the DEM Party.

Rich Democrats (over $250K) are guilt ridden Democrats who don't mind paying higher taxes (like Bernie).
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$250K is the dividing line between rich and poor??? Do the gnomes in your world ride unicorns or hypogriffs???
 
Cyrylek said:
Restrict economic freedoms further, and perhaps only one of her two jobs will remain available. And her food stamps will buys less, because prices of food will be higher.
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What? Explain what "restrict economic freedom means." The early 1900's was a period where we experienced wonderful freedom. Right?
 
David_N said:
Are you seriously arguing that supply creates demand? This has been thrown out as nonsense decades ago.
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Oh come on... didn't you know that people only eat food because someone prepares it?
 
Cyrylek said:
Yeah - also: no traffic lights! Don't be obtuse.

More freedom means more freedom. Freedom of trade, freedom of movement, freedom of investment. Moving in the direction opposite to where Trump and Sanders are dragging us. Every time Uber is allowed to operate in another city, every time a nail care salon opens without the need for expensive licensing, every time a tariff or a tax is abolished, etc, there is an tiny increase of freedom - in the ability of people to work together and enrich each other. What's so hard to understand?

(As for environmental regulations - it depends on what we are talking about. Toxic pollution is one thing; condemning whole industries to a phase-out based on the "climate change" paranoia is something else altogether).
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Freedom of trade already exists, and it's great, you hear politicians whine about it all the time.
Freedom of movement exists, for the most part. Same with freedom of investment.
Hmm, looks like we still have a problem coming from low demand.
"Every time a tax is abolished.."
I am in favor of lower taxes to get more dollars into people's pockets, since federal taxes aren't needed to fund federal spending, but that statement is a strange one.
 
David_N said:
If everyone in the economy applies the principle of saving in vast amounts, We'd have a serious problem.
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We would have a short term problem, with a long term benefit that would far outweigh the problem. Generic liberal thinking - short term to the point of myopia...
 
Cyrylek said:
It's not about "trickle down economics", it is pure common sense. Low-level jobs are predominantly in low-margin industries. Increase the minimum wage or slap an additional regulatory burden on a restaurant or a laundry, she is priced out. And when the same happens to food producers and distributors, they also cut positions, or compensate by raising prices, or both. The scope of these effects varies from one place to another, but the vector of pressure is unmistakable.

As for "getting education" - sure, but what exactly do we mean by "education"? Compare the expensive and time-consuming Master degree in feminist studies and a year of apprenticeship as an electrician. Which is "education", really?
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So will you now argue that removing the minimum wage will somehow fix the problem stemming from low demand? By lowering wages for consumers in communities? Brilliant!
 
faithful_servant said:
We would have a short term problem, with a long term benefit that would far outweigh the problem. Generic liberal thinking - short term to the point of myopia...
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What long term benefit? People invest when they're comfortable that there will be demand. If people cut back across the country, sales go down, people get laid off.. Hell, look at the recent recession. People weren't spending. Look what happened.
 
Casper said:
But yet you support one of those born with a Platinum spoon in his mouth that up until this election was as Liberal as they come, care to explain the inconsistency?
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New Yorkers are always more liberal as a group.... even the Republicans. I ascribe that to more cultural diversity and yes...intelligence. It takes smarts to survive in NYC. Trump might be a liberal but he is also an insane megalomaniac without the temperament to be President.
 
MrWonka said:
LOL! Surgeons?!?! Christ, surgeons are about the intellectual equivalent of auto mechanics. Not dumb by any means, but not what I would refer to as generally scientific minds.
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Youve been watching too much TV " House " !
 
MrWonka said:
Doctors in Congress are not the same as doctors in general. The fact that more republican doctors seem to care more about politics than democratic ones has nothing to do with how doctors in general feel. Generally the scientific fields which include Doctors are overwhelmingly liberal.
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actually doctors tend to lean GOP because plaintiffs attorneys are almost always Democrats. Doctors are also high income tax payers and thus targeted by Democrat party income redistribution schemes. The "scientists" who lean left are generally those who are dependent on government spending and grants for their funding. some scientists who are disgusted by the bible thumping anti science right end up voting democrat as well
 
David_N said:
What long term benefit? People invest when they're comfortable that there will be demand. If people cut back across the country, sales go down, people get laid off.. Hell, look at the recent recession. People weren't spending. Look what happened.
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Like I said, liberal myopia....
 
MrWonka said:
Sorry buddy, but the 80's are over. Trickle down economics does not actually work at all. Helping her get an education, and helping her younger self get access to birth control might have though.
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Care to offer up a better alternative to incentivizing private sector investment ?

And dont say " investment in infrastructure and or education "

Those arent legimate economic proposals, those are Bernie Sanders talking points meant to reel in the naive and uniformed.
 
iguanaman said:
New Yorkers are always more liberal as a group.... even the Republicans. I ascribe that to more cultural diversity and yes...intelligence. It takes smarts to survive in NYC. Trump might be a liberal but he is also an insane megalomaniac without the temperament to be President.
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I always love the left wing myth that democrats are smarter. what is true is that those who think they should run the lives of everyone else have to make that claim in order to justify running the lives of others. However, Democrats never want to admit that the vast majority of their party are not the elite who tell everyone else what to do but rather the rank and file who DO want others to make the tough decisions in life for them

so the Democrat party has a split personality-a massive number of people who want to remain children voting for people who crave to be the parents of everyone
 
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