Poll shows Gary Johnson in double digits in 3-way race against Clinton, Trump

[Henrin]

I agree that business is over regulated, but some regulation is needed. The 1890's were a horror.

The 1890's just so happens to also be a time when corporations and government was mingling.

 

[PoS]

And, part of the reason for that is the push for 'free market economy' by the right wing.. and the libertarian ideals would make it get worse.

Thats what the Keynesians want you to believe- that freeing the markets will make things worse, as if it could get any worse than making the big banks that got us into the 2008 crash even more powerful after bailing them out with taxpayer money. Woop de doo!

You ought to watch this movie, it will tell you what really happened: The Big Short (2015) - IMDb

 

[RAMOSS]

Thats what the Keynesians want you to believe- that freeing the markets will make things worse, as if it could get any worse than making the big banks that got us into the 2008 crash even more powerful after bailing them out with taxpayer money. Woop de doo!

You ought to watch this movie, it will tell you what really happened: The Big Short (2015) - IMDb

Ah yes.. a movie./.. because movies tell the truth so much.

 

[Moderate Right]

Ross Perot got 20% of the popular vote and 0% of the electoral vote.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Civ 5 works great in Ubuntu.

Sorry, double posted that, I thought I forgot to click send. Anyways, yeah, I don't play Civ (My brother loves it though, since Civ II decades ago). Right now, I'm playing Deadcore (It's a 3-D puzzle game) and (sort of) playing Human Resource Machine (it's an interesting game, which is basically a GUI for a compiler (little people actually performing operations you assign them) and you're given programming tasks; it'd be great for kids learning about programming; it gets frustrating due to the fact that you're basically using ASSEMBLY with a complete s*** IDE).

 

[Citizen.Seven]

So? I didn't think half of the idiots would buy into Trump but they did. Despite the fact Trump is Hillary Clinton with a bad comb over.

And Hillary is Trump in a pantsuit.

 

[Citizen.Seven]

The 2 party system will always exist as long as we have a FPTP voting system.

Gary Johnson could double his support and still end up with 0 EVs

Almost certainly true, but one can see in one or two cycles the libertarian party waxing as the Republican wanes, much like what happened with the Whigs and the pubs in the 1850s. I don't think there's much appetite for American adventurism anymore, despite Obama's propping it up by getting the US re-involved in Iraq with neo-con support. First logistics, then bombing, then advisors, then dead advisors, then boots on the ground. The pattern goes back at least 50 years. Oil isn't as important as it once was, so who cares if Iraq becomes a ****hole?

 

[Citizen.Seven]

Private tyrannies my butt. Libertarians are for free markets because government control and manipulation leads to corruption and recessions, as is illustrated at the present time. Sander's policies will make everything worse- he can't even give a straight answer where the money to fund his vanity projects will come from.

Free markets are just the aggregate of billions of individual choices: do I buy this item, that item, or no item? Do I sell this or that, and at what price? Ultimately, it's just two question between two individuals: what do you have that I want, and what do you want for it?

It really is that simple but because collectivists can't stand not butting in, you end up with hundreds of thousands of regulations, fees and taxes.

 

[Crovax]

Almost certainly true, but one can see in one or two cycles the libertarian party waxing as the Republican wanes, much like what happened with the Whigs and the pubs in the 1850s. I don't think there's much appetite for American adventurism anymore, despite Obama's propping it up by getting the US re-involved in Iraq with neo-con support. First logistics, then bombing, then advisors, then dead advisors, then boots on the ground. The pattern goes back at least 50 years. Oil isn't as important as it once was, so who cares if Iraq becomes a ****hole?

Probably people who live, work or socialize in densely populated areas

 

[David_N]

Great, a lunatic is gaining votes..

 

[David_N]

Thats what the Keynesians want you to believe- that freeing the markets will make things worse, as if it could get any worse than making the big banks that got us into the 2008 crash even more powerful after bailing them out with taxpayer money. Woop de doo!

You ought to watch this movie, it will tell you what really happened: The Big Short (2015) - IMDb

that freeing the markets will make things worse

What keynesians are you speaking to?

 

[azgreg]

Great, a lunatic is gaining votes..

This thread is about Gary Johnson, not Shillary.

 

[Citizen.Seven]

Probably people who live, work or socialize in densely populated areas

Yeah, in Iraq. Who cares? Once they've had their civil war, deal with the ones left. If they don't play nice, ban all travel to/from Iraq. Problem solved.

 

[Crovax]

Yeah, in Iraq. Who cares? Once they've had their civil war, deal with the ones left. If they don't play nice, ban all travel to/from Iraq. Problem solved.

You don't live in the real world do you?

 

[Citizen.Seven]

You don't live in the real world do you?

The world where Iraq had WMD, viet nam falling to communism would cause a domino effect, where you could keep your insurance if you wanted, etc? If that's your "real world", then no, I don't live there.

 

[PoS]

Free markets are just the aggregate of billions of individual choices: do I buy this item, that item, or no item? Do I sell this or that, and at what price? Ultimately, it's just two question between two individuals: what do you have that I want, and what do you want for it?

It really is that simple but because collectivists can't stand not butting in, you end up with hundreds of thousands of regulations, fees and taxes.

Yeah, I find it amusing that the people who say that less government regulations will somehow make the corporations more powerful when it fact they are already controlling the government as we know it. The Fed and the government oversight departments are run by former bankers who bail out their former firms using taxpayer money even after it was proven that they engaged in fraud and they got away with it. Its totally hilarious that so many people have been brainwashed into believing this. No wonder the country is in such a mess.

Ah yes.. a movie./.. because movies tell the truth so much.

Its based on facts and it sure beats the propaganda from your brainwashed Keynesian blogs.

 

[danarhea]

The 1890's just so happens to also be a time when corporations and government was mingling.

You mean, like today? :mrgreen:

 

[danarhea]

Sorry, double posted that, I thought I forgot to click send. Anyways, yeah, I don't play Civ (My brother loves it though, since Civ II decades ago). Right now, I'm playing Deadcore (It's a 3-D puzzle game) and (sort of) playing Human Resource Machine (it's an interesting game, which is basically a GUI for a compiler (little people actually performing operations you assign them) and you're given programming tasks; it'd be great for kids learning about programming; it gets frustrating due to the fact that you're basically using ASSEMBLY with a complete s*** IDE).

I haven't written any assembly language since I learned C++. Back in the day, though, I wrote assembly language programs for the IBM370 and the TMS9900.

 

[Thrilla]

Interesting, they will probably still not allow him in the debates. But I'll be voting LP for sure this election....again.

yeah, I don't see them allowing him in... they run those debates now and there's no benefit to them to allow him in.

the LP has some stronger candidates this go round... it';; probably still be Gary Johnson, but Mcafee is making a good run as well

 

[FieldTheorist]

I haven't written any assembly language since I learned C++. Back in the day, though, I wrote assembly language programs for the IBM370 and the TMS9900.

I wrote one ASSEMBLY program, that I think added together two numbers back in high school. That was enough.

 

[Thrilla]

And, part of the reason for that is the push for 'free market economy' by the right wing.. and the libertarian ideals would make it get worse.

it's speculation to asset it would be worse.. it might or might not.

however, we KNOW that it's getting worse under the big government, heavy regulation, two party duopoly... that so many loyally support.

big business is empowered by heavy regulation, not stymied by it.

 

[RAMOSS]

it's speculation to asset it would be worse.. it might or might not.

however, we KNOW that it's getting worse under the big government, heavy regulation, two party duopoly... that so many loyally support.

big business is empowered by heavy regulation, not stymied by it.

Actually, it uses bribes to get rid of a lot of the important regulation. It is known as 'Political Donations'. Getting rid of the regulations is what causes a lot of the issues, such at the repeal of glass stegeal act.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Yeah, I find it amusing that the people who say that less government regulations will somehow make the corporations more powerful when it fact they are already controlling the government as we know it.

I'm not interested in a long conversation on this, but some food for thought:

There is pretty much no better example of right-wing libertarian governance (or lack thereof) than the early history of the settled West (or for instance, the illegally occupied Dakota territories prior to the US government buying them back from the Native Americans). The result? Business leaders did exactly what I said they would --they created private tyrannies. They were the owners of businesses, and generally they joined together for their class interests (inside of a town) and formed their own version of an everything-but-the-name municipal government. Everyone who wasn't a business owner was a wage slave in the truest sense, most women were prostitutes or outright sold into sexual slavery, children generally were forced into hard labor and had essentially no chance at an education, and therefore --totally unsurprisingly-- the concept of economic mobility (being able to, by hard work, move out of your station) was virtually non-existent. The system was largely limited to either bartering or making use of the US dollar (which means even they were still borrowing heavily from the US government to keep their economies afloat and stable, not to mention using the US military to prevent themselves from foreign, albeit not local, invaders). Additionally, the fought and killed each other quite often and murdering whole caravans and raping women was also exceedingly common (and there certainly wasn't anything to stop it).

We can also look at the next closest examples in US history of a purely right-wing libertarian ideology, would be the time surrounding the Industrial Revolution, which generated the exact same private tyrannies, monopolies, staggering income inequality, and labor practices were so fiercely unjust it lead people to literally creating gangs to fight business owners (e.g. Rockafeller's history is pretty damn interesting to read about; the man was the private dictator of his oil fiefdom, but the paragon of a Randian hero). People acted so poorly, that everyone was begging the government to get involved, which included business owners. And when business owners control all of the wealth and have safely secured all of the power (including distribution of information), they get whatever they want --it doesn't matter how you, as a libertarian, feel about that or what's written into previous law (it'll get overturned in a jiffy if the right people want it). So talking about "prohibiting business owners and corporations" from taking control of the government after squarely handing them all of the money, power, and influence is something I find to be wildly inconsistent --not at a logical level, just at a performative level. There's nothing stopping them from doing what time and time again in history they've proven they will do, namely buy off the government and remake it to their purposes. You can see this in the Koch Brothers, who love to talk about libertarianism, right up to the point when they get their huge government handouts (e.g. oil contracts and oil subsidies) and government services. Then, boy oh boy, they expect what they paid for.


I've always been curious --this doesn't give you a moment's pause in terms of your ideological commitments? It certainly gave me pause when I was a right-wing libertarian. Life is a lot less contradictory (and not needing logical gymnastics) as a left-wing libertarian. Or that's what I have found, at any rate.

 

[Henrin]

You mean, like today? :mrgreen:

I'm not sure which is worse to be honest. In the 1890's the rich were trying to create what would eventually become the federal reserve and today they are getting all of their innovation and research done by government.

 

[beerftw]

A pot company CEO, that's our third party alternative...

I like pot, he may very well win my vote. Trump though is not absolutely for pot, but i not anti pot, which put him ahead of the republican field in my book.

Heck in texas pot is favored overwhelmingly, to the point if a democrat ran and dumped the wedge issues and ran as pro pot, pro gun he/she could win in texas.