• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Poll shows Gary Johnson in double digits in 3-way race against Clinton, Trump

Can't tell if serious...

Also, I've never really given Linux Mint an honest chance. Always used OpenSuSE for my Linux needs.

Not familiar with OpenSuSE. My first Linux system ever was Slackware, and it was sometimes difficult to use. After that I went to Red Hat, and had good experience with it. Right now, am using Linux Mint With the Cinnamon Desktop (Version is Rosa). Package oriented, and very easy to use. My only gripe with Linux is that running Windows programs through Wine is hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Also, when writing software, you cannot emulate keystrokes in Linux like you can in Windows. That is a negative from a programming standpoint, but a positive from a security standpoint. Also good on the security end is that drive by downloads from malicious web sites are impossible, since software packages can only be installed from the "trusty" repository, or any repository that you have added to your repository list. I still use Windoze, though, sometimes at home when I have to (I have a dual boot system), and of course, at work, where I am now. Windows 10 at both locations. Biggest bug in Windows right now is in keeping the task bar hidden. Pisses me off. LOL.
 
Last edited:
I honestly have no certainty, other than to say that the Green and Libertarian party will be increasing in numbers, both. How much, how relative, it's totally unclear. It'd be a serious mistake to think that right-wing libertarians (largely Gen X'ers) will in line with the GOP and the left-wing libertarians/progressives/socialists will just fall in line line with the DNC... That would be a very optimistic outcome for Hillary. I seriously doubt that that solidarity in either party will happen in droves. At least a third of the Republican base fervently hates Trump and a third of the Democratic base fervently hates Hillary. I heard a commentator state "It's not unreasonable to think that either of them, after a protracted 7 month negative campaigns, could enter the White House with approvals ratings in single digits." I tend to suspect that's a rather reasonable possibility. Independents hate Hillary and they hate Trump, both alienated at least a third of their base, and both are about to be exposed as massive corporate shills (Trump is certainly about to take on loads and loads of debt to corporations, Wall Street, etc to get the money he needs to take on Hillary, and he's already said so).

I foresee a drifting of party's bases or else an emergence of a third party. We've reached that point, I think, when finally last year more than 50% of voters are registered as Independents, and the only people who actually get serious, grassroots supports are (morally third-party) people like Sanders and Trump, and previously Paul.
I wonder how compatible the left is with the LP to form a temporary coalition on common ground. A Sanders/Johnson or Johnson/Sanders ticket would have a real chance I'd think.

Impossibly west-wing-esque, but it's a nice thought.
 
I think the LP needs a more focused strategy and funding campaign similar to Bernie's. Its the only way they can compete against the big two political parties.
 
I wonder how compatible the left is with the LP to form a temporary coalition on common ground. A Sanders/Johnson or Johnson/Sanders ticket would have a real chance I'd think.

Impossibly west-wing-esque, but it's a nice thought.

Libertarians wouldn't compromise with Sanders (or Greens) and Sanders wouldn't compromise with Libertarians. The biggest problem is that Libertarians are so utterly committed to private tyrannies (sorry, "economic freedom" --yeah, that's not positively Orwellian) that even if there was 99% agreement on social issues and foreign policy, it wouldn't compensate of their intense commitment to destroying social safety nets (let alone agreeing to expand them).
 
On an unrelated note:

Works for me. I am running Linux Mint, a Ubuntu variation, at home. Works much smoother than Windoze. Haven't seen a blue screen of death in ages.

In related news, 2016 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.

I'm currently running a freshly installed copy of Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon. I left Ubuntu after the Unity debacle. You've got to love how customizable GNU/Linux is, and how programmer friendly it is. It has it's issues sometimes with a few bugs, but overall if it weren't for PC gaming, I wouldn't even consider loading Windows onto my machine. Still, I'm shocked at how large my Steam library is; Valve has really done a good job pushing devs away from DirectX.
 
Last edited:
Libertarians wouldn't compromise with Sanders (or Greens) and Sanders wouldn't compromise with Libertarians. The biggest problem is that Libertarians are so utterly committed to private tyrannies (sorry, "economic freedom" --yeah, that's not positively Orwellian) that even if there was 99% agreement on social issues and foreign policy, it wouldn't compensate of their intense commitment to destroying social safety nets (let alone agreeing to expand them).

Private tyrannies my butt. Libertarians are for free markets because government control and manipulation leads to corruption and recessions, as is illustrated at the present time. Sander's policies will make everything worse- he can't even give a straight answer where the money to fund his vanity projects will come from.
 
Private tyrannies my butt. Libertarians are for free markets because government control and manipulation leads to corruption and recessions, as is illustrated at the present time. Sander's policies will make everything worse- he can't even give a straight answer where the money to fund his vanity projects will come from.

So does letting corporations run unrestricted. Only, instead of the government, it's the coprorations.
 
Private tyrannies my butt. Libertarians are for free markets because government control and manipulation leads to corruption and recessions, as is illustrated at the present time. Sander's policies will make everything worse- he can't even give a straight answer where the money to fund his vanity projects will come from.
Bernie Sanders has said numerous times that he wants to tax Wall Street speculation.
 
So does letting corporations run unrestricted. Only, instead of the government, it's the coprorations.

Corporations are a product of the state, so..
 
I think the LP needs a more focused strategy and funding campaign similar to Bernie's. Its the only way they can compete against the big two political parties.

I think the Sanders campaign is going to define how insurgent third party, grassroots activist-lead campaigns will work going forward. The only issue is, there needs to be a collective effort amongst Green, Libertarian, Reform, etc, parties to create their version of ActBlue (the online donation website for contributing to Democratic candidates), the large phone dialer system that Bernie has in place (which allowed Sanders supporters to dial 33% of New York voters), being willing to be on the bleeding edge of apps (like the apps for Text4Bernie), in addition to the social media presence (which compensates almost completely for the lack of mainstream media coverage). There's a huge amount of technology that went into Bernie's campaign being successful. It will take a little bit of time for Libertarians to get that, I think, but there might be a chance Greens could get that technology from disenfranchised Sanders supporters who move over to the Green party.

But over the next 10 years, I think this is clearly going to be a major source of exposure and funding for third-parties, and I think it's actually not at all impossible for the Green party and the Libertarian party to greatly increase their presence (including congressional seats and governorships).
 
That won't make things worse how exactly?
It won't make things worse. Because now people will be able to get a good education without worrying about the expenses, and not being able to afford it.
 
I wonder how compatible the left is with the LP to form a temporary coalition on common ground. A Sanders/Johnson or Johnson/Sanders ticket would have a real chance I'd think.

Impossibly west-wing-esque, but it's a nice thought.

:lol:

No ****ing way. Socialists and Libertarians are pretty much political opposites.
 
So does letting corporations run unrestricted. Only, instead of the government, it's the coprorations.

History has shown that heavy government regulation actually favors the larger corporations so your statement is running true right now. With free markets and a small government, big business wont be able to influence the legislature to give them an unfair advantage- the playing field will be leveled as opposed to the present situation.
 
History has shown that heavy government regulation actually favors the larger corporations so your statement is running true right now. With free markets and a small government, big business wont be able to influence the legislature to give them an unfair advantage- the playing field will be leveled as opposed to the present situation.

Funny, that's the claim of some people who run the biggest corprorations, with money they use to fund libertarian think tanks. Forgive me, but I am skeptical of that claim.
 
Private tyrannies my butt. Libertarians are for free markets because government control and manipulation leads to corruption and recessions, as is illustrated at the present time. Sander's policies will make everything worse- he can't even give a straight answer where the money to fund his vanity projects will come from.

There's no such thing as a "free market." Any economy that more sophisticated than a bartering system literally exists as a part of a government, and is subject to the laws of governments. They're protected by government militias, they're protected by government laws and rely on the law for contracts to mean anything, they spend money minted and literally defined by governments, they take loans from the government, they use government roads and infrastructure, they use the government to establish trade deals and export treaties, and they use research/science/education funded by governments.

I have zero interest into getting into a discussion with you about how Sanders policies are funded, but I will comment that are definitely funded (or at least a plausible funding situation has been given that is sufficient for a primary discussion, given that this all gets written, researched, reviewed, and arbitrated by the House). As fascinating as it would be to watch the mental gymnastics and logical leaps defending the idea that there's really a "free market", I shall pass on that conversation, too.

Funny, that's the claim of some people who run the biggest corprorations, with money they use to fund libertarian think tanks. Forgive me, but I am skeptical of that claim.

Yes, the irony is palpable.
 
:lol:

No ****ing way. Socialists and Libertarians are pretty much political opposites.
Sanders is a libertarian. Even Ron Paul said he's the most libertarian of the entire field, and that was when his son was still in the race.

But I suppose the LP is a different animal entirely.
 
:lol:

No ****ing way. Socialists and Libertarians are pretty much political opposites.

If you're talking about someone who is a genuine libertarian and someone who is a genuine libertarian socialist, the differences are smaller than you'd imagine in terms of their core ideals. It's a case where a 5% difference in ideals leads to a 95% difference in policy.
 
Voted for Johnson in '12, will vote for him again in '16.

The Republicrats are one and the same - Establishment, corrupt, anti-liberty, anti-America... it is amazing that more people don't catch on. Proof that it is extremely difficult to overcome indoctrination.
 
In related news, 2016 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.

Works for me. I am running Linux Mint, a Ubuntu variation, at home. Works much smoother than Windoze. Haven't seen a blue screen of death in ages.

I love Linux Mint. I'm currently using LM 17.3 with the Cinnamon DE. I've become a pretty large fan of GNU/Linux these past few years; the customizability and programmer-friendly nature of GNU/Linux is unbeatable. I really don't like vanilla Ubuntu post-Unity (although, I've heard the newer version unbroke Unity, but at this point I'm perfectly happy with LM w/ Cinnamon). A friend of mine uses Manjaro, and he really loves it. I have no experience with OpenSUSE, so far I've only used Debian-based distros.
 
On an unrelated note:





I'm currently running a freshly installed copy of Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon. I left Ubuntu after the Unity debacle. You've got to love how customizable GNU/Linux is, and how programmer friendly it is. It has it's issues sometimes with a few bugs, but overall if it weren't for PC gaming, I wouldn't even consider loading Windows onto my machine. Still, I'm shocked at how large my Steam library is; Valve has really done a good job pushing devs away from DirectX.

Civ 5 works great in Ubuntu.
 
History has shown that heavy government regulation actually favors the larger corporations so your statement is running true right now. With free markets and a small government, big business wont be able to influence the legislature to give them an unfair advantage- the playing field will be leveled as opposed to the present situation.

I agree that business is over regulated, but some regulation is needed. The 1890's were a horror.
 
Funny, that's the claim of some people who run the biggest corprorations, with money they use to fund libertarian think tanks. Forgive me, but I am skeptical of that claim.

Well you can say that all you want but the truth is big corporations run the show right now- and this is with heavy government regulations in place, which is what you wanted.
 
Well you can say that all you want but the truth is big corporations run the show right now- and this is with heavy government regulations in place, which is what you wanted.

And, part of the reason for that is the push for 'free market economy' by the right wing.. and the libertarian ideals would make it get worse.
 
Back
Top Bottom