Poll: GOP sees Orlando as terror, Dems see it as gun violence

[Casper]

I am not saying that I disagree with you...

It is just that, in order for us to "deal with the many mentally ill in this nation" we have to have knowledge of their mental illness. If there is no reason for any person in the capacity to handle a mentally ill person to have knowledge of a specific person being mentally ill, then how can we "deal with them".

Just my two cents.

And we do not disagree. The "System" has to adapt to deal with the issue and we can start with educating people that a Problem exists that they have been missing or ignoring.

 

[danarhea]

 

[justlikethat]

Both. He was a radical Islamist and he was a natural-born American citizen. His motivation was a combination of radical Islam and good old-fashioned homophobia.

It doesn't matter what the Republicans and Democrats are calling the problem, because both their solutions are wrong.

Except for the fact the terrorist is capable of killing without the gun, but the gun cannot kill without the terrorist!

 

[Caine]

Despite having had democracy for over two centuries and having the ability to change it every four years I find it very difficult to believe such fears have any legitimacy whatsoever

That is because we are still currently armed.

 

[Caine]

And we do not disagree. The "System" has to adapt to deal with the issue and we can start with educating people that a Problem exists that they have been missing or ignoring.

No matter how much adapting the mental health profession does, it won't help unless we force everyone to get regular mental health checkups.

 

[Casper]

No matter how much adapting the mental health profession does, it won't help unless we force everyone to get regular mental health checkups.

Nope, do not have to go that far, no cause for that. But we do need to educate the populace and have a system in place that can actually deal with those reported as behaving abnormally. Right now we either ignore the issue or put the mentally ill in prisons after they act out. The shooter in Orlando should have had his identified issues dealt with as a child and today those that died or were injured would still be alive and healthy.

 

[Caine]

Nope, do not have to go that far, no cause for that. But we do need to educate the populace and have a system in place that can actually deal with those reported as behaving abnormally. Right now we either ignore the issue or put the mentally ill in prisons after they act out. The shooter in Orlando should have had his identified issues dealt with as a child and today those that died or were injured would still be alive and healthy.

When parents can't afford mental health care, or are in denial about the mental health status of their child, they aren't going to "deal with" these issues.
Also, when we can force someone into treatment on the mere "suggestion" from another person's unprofessional opinion, that is when the mental health care system gets turned into a tool of grievance that one uses against another that they are angry with.

 

[Casper]

No matter how much adapting the mental health profession does, it won't help unless we force everyone to get regular mental health checkups.

Cannot see that happening, but if educators, law enforcement, the courts and the populace in general were better informed the mentally ill would be identified and the system could deal with it.

 

[poweRob]

This is a lot closer to being gay on gay violence than being a homophobic act.

Kinda both it seems. It's appearing like the guy was self-loathing for it.

 

[notquiteright]

This type of violence against gays is new. I've never heard of 49 people being singled out for death in one fell swoop, based solely on their sexual orientation, in the western world. I believe that it is important to distinguish between this case and the average case of anti-gay violence, which might amount to a few scrapes or bruises for someone. What if more people of the same faith commit copy cat crimes?

I never heard of a black sniper committing a string of murders, and all the 'experts' were pondering what type of white guy would hunt blacks in DC. Or as the teenager told his young date in the back seat of the family car- "there is a first time for everything."

As the investigation unfolds it appears the reasons are a bit more complex than Islam made me do it. For one he seems to have had a fascination for Law Enforcement and being an authority figure rather than a hater of all things Western. (he has several selfies dressed in NYPD clothing and is taped while a security guard during the BP Gulf clean-up.)

I too feel we should not consider this the 'average' hate crime against gays- but not to the point of ignoring the gay sexual lean of the shooter.

I see his 11th hour oath to ISIL as more an attempt to justify murder and deflect from 'the sin' of gay sexual urges than a true follower 'obeying' the Quran... eace

 

[flogger]

That is because we are still currently armed.

Pure fantasy. We've had parliamentary democracy far longer than you

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I never heard of a black sniper committing a string of murders

Really? Never heard of the DC sniper?

 

[notquiteright]

Really? Never heard of the DC sniper?

You should read and UNDERSTAND and ENTIRE post before responding. I WAS referring to the DC sniper who was not believed to be black as the experts were all claiming "I never heard of a black sniper before" and thus kept looking for some loner white guy...

The poster i responded to used the 'never heard of a ...... before' and I used the DC sniper to dismiss that 'logic'... eace

 

[SMTA]

This type of violence against gays is new. I've never heard of 49 people being singled out for death in one fell swoop, based solely on their sexual orientation, in the western world.

I believe that it is important to distinguish between this case and the average case of anti-gay violence, which might amount to a few scrapes or bruises for someone.

What if more people of the same faith commit copy cat crimes?

You know none of this to be true - all is speculation.

 

[truthatallcost]

You know none of this to be true - all is speculation.

How am I speculating? Were 49 lgbt people killed in another case somewhere that I'm neglecting? No.

Does the average hate crime against LGBT folks amount to verbal slurs and mild violence? Yes.

 

[SMTA]

How am I speculating? Were 49 lgbt people killed in another case somewhere that I'm neglecting? No.

Does the average hate crime against LGBT folks amount to verbal slurs and mild violence? Yes.

You have no idea that his decision was made based upon their sexual orientation, that's why.

You have no idea what he was thinking, only speculation.

 

[truthatallcost]

You have no idea that his decision was made based upon their sexual orientation, that's why.

You have no idea what he was thinking, only speculation.

So you're trying to tell the LGBT community, sorry folks, this wasn't about you, you weren't chosen based on discrimination?

We have the words of the killer recorded. We do know what he was thinking.

Please pay attention.

 

[Caine]

Pure fantasy. We've had parliamentary democracy far longer than you

Ummm.. Grats?

Still doesn't change my opinion on the matter, or Thomas Jefferson's for that matter.

 

[SMTA]

So you're trying to tell the LGBT community, sorry folks, this wasn't about you, you weren't chosen based on discrimination?

We have the words of the killer recorded. We do know what he was thinking.

Please pay attention.

Where in any recording did he rail against the gay nightclub folks?

 

[truthatallcost]

Where in any recording did he rail against the gay nightclub folks?

His ex wife said he hated gay people and railed against them. I've seen her interviewed, she seems really sweet and kind of innocent. I don't think she'd be lying.

 

[SMTA]

His ex wife said he hated gay people and railed against them. I've seen her interviewed, she seems really sweet and kind of innocent. I don't think she'd be lying.

The ex-wife who went with him to buy ammo, scope out the club, dropped him and his guns off at the club prior to the shooting, who got $9K worth of jewelry just before the shooting, and who he texted during the shooting, and is going to be charged shortly for not doing a ****ing thing to stop him?

That wife? Yea, what a believable sweetheart she is.

 

[truthatallcost]

The ex-wife who went with him to buy ammo, scope out the club, dropped him and his guns off at the club prior to the shooting, who got $9K worth of jewelry just before the shooting, and who he texted during the shooting, and is going to be charged shortly for not doing a ****ing thing to stop him?

That wife? Yea, what a believable sweetheart she is.

Nope the ex wife that he married, beat her, and she had to have her family come and save her before he killed her. Completely different wife, please keep up.

 

[flogger]

Ummm.. Grats?

Still doesn't change my opinion on the matter, or Thomas Jefferson's for that matter.

I seriously doubt anything would. Make sure and have fun with your guns now :wink:

 

[Rosie1]

We had interesting conversation at home after Orlando. I'm not a liberal that has never loaded a gun or hunted. I'm for some gun control. I definitely think restricting gun purchase from people on the "No Fly" a "No Brainer." However, it would not have helped in Orlando. Hubby feels we should be better at treating people with violent mental health issues. I agree, but pointed out that most conservatives wouldn't like the massive funding that would require.