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Poll: GOP sees Orlando as terror, Dems see it as gun violence

That's such a cop out man. Someone can not support gay marriage, and still not want to see innocent people get killed for being gay.

There's a real reluctance here to address the elephant in the room, and instead take pot shots at people who pose no threat to LGBT lives.

No the elephant in the room here is that one guy with a serious weed up his *ss was able to go out buy high powered weaponry with no questions asked and then take out a nightclub full of people. It could just as easily been any other minority group it was just that the LGBT community was the one who got unlucky this time :(
 
No the elephant in the room here is that one guy with a serious weed up his *ss was able to go out buy high powered weaponry with no questions asked and then take out a nightclub full of people.

I see you're English and thus pathologically averse to liberty, but the fact that the killer could obtain a weapon is not the problem. The problem is that he was motivated to kill that many innocent people in the first place. Some cultures are just more or less violent than others, and we don't really know why. We should study cultures that are less violent than ours and see what we can learn from them. There are a lot of obvious steps we can take to reduce the violence in our society, and none of them involve violating our human rights.
 
I see you're English and thus pathologically averse to liberty, but the fact that the killer could obtain a weapon is not the problem.

And that denial means unfortunately the massacres will continue unabated :(

The problem is that he was motivated to kill that many innocent people in the first place.

And easy access to those guns made it far easier for him to do so quickly and efficiently .
 
No, it's not. That is a cop out. If you don't believe that gays deserve equal rights, you are contributing to the attitudes that make some people think it's okay to kill them.

So supporting traditional marriage is contributing to attitudes that make some people think its OK to kill?

How many times can I say :bs:bs:bs
 
I see you're English and thus pathologically averse to liberty, but the fact that the killer could obtain a weapon is not the problem. The problem is that he was motivated to kill that many innocent people in the first place. Some cultures are just more or less violent than others, and we don't really know why. We should study cultures that are less violent than ours and see what we can learn from them. There are a lot of obvious steps we can take to reduce the violence in our society, and none of them involve violating our human rights.

Owning a gun is a human right? No it isn't.

It is - possibly - a Constitutional right (though I believe the 2'nd Amendment is STRICTLY about the military - not home protection). But it is NOT a human right.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights | United Nations
 
No, it's not. That is a cop out. If you don't believe that gays deserve equal rights, you are contributing to the attitudes that make some people think it's okay to kill them.

That's bull****.

You're accusing Anti-Gay Rights types of being on the same level as this Jihadist whackball? That's stupid!
That's just as stupid and unfair as saying a person who opposes illegal immigration is a racist.
 
Owning a gun is a human right? No it isn't.

It is - possibly - a Constitutional right (though I believe the 2'nd Amendment is STRICTLY about the military - not home protection). But it is NOT a human right.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights | United Nations

Possibly a constitutional right? Strictly about the military and not for home protection?

I suggest you read the SCOTUS decision in the DC v Heller case as well as the framer's intent.

You may not like what you read but at least you will be informed.
 
So whose fault was this guy?

From your LA Times article:

Howell allegedly pointed a gun at his neighbors in the October incident, according to a News and Tribune article. In the article, witnesses also described Howell as having pointed his gun at his boyfriend in an earlier incident

Apparently the guy in your article is gay. Read the the article, police have said that he he didn't say he was going to shoot up the parade, which was initially reported. Sounds like an overly eager journalist heard "guns" and "gay pride parade" and decided to do some creative editing.
 
No the elephant in the room here is that one guy with a serious weed up his *ss was able to go out buy high powered weaponry with no questions asked and then take out a nightclub full of people. It could just as easily been any other minority group it was just that the LGBT community was the one who got unlucky this time :(

So Mateen's own words don't matter at all to you? Like when he said that he was inspired by Isis, pledged allegiance to a Isis commander, and said he's killing gays for Islam?
------
Do you know how easy it is to get a full auto assault rifle in America? If you have the money, and know some people, you can get an AK-47 in a few hours.
Start banning guns and all you'll do is create a lucrative black market on par with the drug trade.

Our ports receive so much counterfeit and illegal stuff from China already, that's why I could buy an AK-47 in 2 hours if I wanted one.
 
I predict that will never happen in the USA.

If you have other ideas,explain them to us.

You can predict anything you like, the poll numbers don't lie.

A lot of people are betting that Muslim newcomers to the West are going to give up 1,000 years of tradition for baseball and hot dogs and apple pie. The levels of naivety that some people have is shocking.
 
So Mateen's own words don't matter at all to you? Like when he said that he was inspired by Isis, pledged allegiance to a Isis commander, and said he's killing gays for Islam?

Nope . Because he could have been any nutter anywhere in the US with a gripe with any minority.

With easy access to firearms the result would be the same :(

nutters-with-guns.jpg

Its not like this hasn't happened before and its usually legally owned firearms that are used

mass-shooting-legally.jpg
 
Nope . Because he could have been any nutter anywhere in the US with a gripe with any minority.

With easy access to firearms the result would be the same :(

View attachment 67202965

Its not like this hasn't happened before and its usually legally owned firearms that are used

View attachment 67202966





ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking. Cracking down on these dealers continues to be a priority for the ATF. What's needed, according to Wachtel, is better monitoring of the activities of legally licensed gun dealers. This means examining FFL paperwork to see where their guns are coming from, and making sure that those guns are being sold legally. But he says, "Let's be honest. If someone wants a gun, it's obvious the person will not have difficulty buying a gun, either legally or through the extensive United States black market."

92% of gun dealers are doing what they're supposed to. If you want the govt to shut down those 8% of bad gun dealers who are causing the problem, I'm fine with that

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS
 
Hit the nail on the head.

99% of Afghani Muslims, and 91% of Iraqi Muslims want Sharia Law enforced by the government. When immigrants from those and other Muslim nations migrate to the US, I'm doubtful that they're going to drop their culture, and support individual freedom.

The problem here is the individual who killed and wounded 102 people was an American citizen.
 
This type of violence against gays is new. I've never heard of 49 people being singled out for death in one fell swoop, based solely on their sexual orientation, in the western world.

I believe that it is important to distinguish between this case and the average case of anti-gay violence, which might amount to a few scrapes or bruises for someone.

What if more people of the same faith commit copy cat crimes?

Then they'd be just as wrong and should be punished in accordance with the law.

To be clear, this was an act of hate as much as it was an act of terror. However, IMO, it was more an act of hate because of the fact that the gunman specifically targeted a specific group of people - homosexuals. The fact that he sympathized with ISIS and echoed their beliefs on anti-homosexuality is secondary, but no less significant.

As an aside, Christian scripture speaks of homosexuality as an abomination to God as well (Leviticus 18:22). Leviticus 20:2 provides for righteous men to pass judgement upon homosexuals and stone such men to death who are caught laying with other men for sexual pleasure specifically when done in the name of Molech, a lesser god. That said, it doesn't make what Omar Mateen did right any more than the rantings of so-called Christian pastor speak to Christian values on the subject. Why? Because none bore witnesses to the sinful act. As such, it not for them to pass judgement onto their fellow man. That's God's job. But even if man did witness such an act, we don't live in ancient biblical times any longer. Jesus came to fulfill Old Testament law and provide them a path to return to righteousness. As such, those who violate God's laws will see judgement accordingly as He sees fit in His time in His way according to His word. Those who violate man's law will be punished in accordance with the law's of man.

Now, here in America we don't punish people for being gay. That may happen in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan or Afghanistan but not here. When such a thing does happen here, it is classified first and foremost as a hate crime. However, one would be foolish not to see the ties to Muslim extremism in the commission of this crime as well.
 
Neither. This is a hate crime.

any time you gun down a bunch of unarmed innocents who have DONE ABSOLUTELY nothing to the shooter it is a HATE crime. nothing quite says hate like shooting someone in the head at close range
 
I see an insane person go on a killing spree...that is all I see.

I don't think Omar Mateen was insane at all. I think he simply hated himself.

From accounts given by his father, his ex-wife, and those who claimed he was a frequent visitor to the Pulse night club, I think the man was a closet homosexual who simply could not reconcile his deeply held religious beliefs that homosexuality was a sin that demanded being snuffed out with his ideals of what defined being a "man". He hated himself and took his aggression out on those around him using anti-homosexual propaganda as espoused by ISIS as justification to commit mass murder.
 
Can you give me an example of rational terrorism?

Rational? Maybe not but terrorism can be coldly calculated and coldly executed. This sounds more like a complete flip-out. A wildly successful flip-out.
 
General from "war games" tosses head set: "I needed a damn POLL to tell me that"
 
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