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Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 13 18.8%
  • No.

    Votes: 51 73.9%
  • Don't know.

    Votes: 5 7.2%

  • Total voters
    69

LowDown

Curmudgeon
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Come on liberals. Ya'll need to get behind this in a big way.
 
I wish there was another option honestly. I think we should bail out the people of Detroit, the people who are going to lose the pensions that they deserve, but after that I am much more reserved. While I am reserved, I fear that without government assistance, everybody is going to suffer in Detroit, and suffering people are never good. But the problem if we decide to bail them totally out, that sets the precedent that its ok to go bankrupt, the WH will cover the bill. So in my opinion any action on Detroit needs to be very precautions.
 
We should not bail out any failing city.Especially if they do not have a plan to cut their costs.
 
No. I only support bailouts for large corporations, not hard working people.

While I understand the point you're trying to make, it falls kind of flat when you consider how many hard working people at those large corporations would have lost their jobs had they gone under.

As to the point in the OP, I'm kind of torn. On the one hand, I don't think it's right that people may lose their pensions. On the other, I think it's more likely the people running detroit will learn a lesson from going through bankruptcy.
 
I think those who's pensions are in jeopardy should somehow be taken care of. I don't think Detroit as a city is worth saving. I can't think of any industry where it makes sense to make Detroit its global headquarters where it wouldn't make more sense to have it somewhere else. The auto industry would be more efficiently run out of a city with an international seaport in my opinion.

It would have been best to do this in advance, but create a national pool of all city workers pensions then if one city has issues, the retirees are safe. It might be good to go ahead and extend the national pooling to other benefits too like health insurance group, etc.
 
I support sending them a bucket. They will have the tool required. Whether they use it or not is entirely up to them.
 
No. I only support bailouts for large corporations, not hard working people.

I was born in Detroit...

Thank god my parents had the good sense to move out while it was still in its heyday. That being said, while one can see your sarcasm as it drips in globs down on your tie, I do not believe in bailing anybody, or any entity, out when they self inflict by not making the hard decisions you need to be making along the way in order to arrive at that better ending. Detroit is just a canary in the cave regarding the unsustainable. We can also look across the pond at Europe. If we continue making bad decisions, keep spending money we do not have on things government has no business... well, I do not think there will be anybody bailing us out when we misstep on that precipice... and we will have deserved it knowing what we do now... with such vivid examples right before our very eyes.
 
Having been to Detroit many times, I've always said, let Windsor annex her...
 
There should not be any "bailout" option. The city government created this mess and if the citizens want to save their city it is up to them it do it themselves.
 
No, this would set a bad precedent for other troubled cities. Orange County, CA, went bankrupt in the 90s without any gov bailout. I realize that people take sympathy to the pensioners, but that's the risk/reward associated with such plans. The Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation already exists and will no doubt take over the plans, although it may not support the same payments pensioners are currently getting. I get that, it sucks; but at least something is better than nothing.

Detroit's problems cannot be solved with money....
 
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No, this would set a bad precedent for other troubled cities. Orange County, CA, went bankrupt in the 90s without any gov bailout. I realize that people take sympathy to the pensioners, but that's the risk/reward associated with such plans. The Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation already exists and will no doubt take over the plans, although it may not support the same payments pensioners are currently getting. I get that, it sucks; but at least something is better than nothing.

Detroit's problems cannot be solved with money....

With respect to the pensioners --was Detroit's mismanagement their fault?

If Goldman Sachs can get 100 cents on the dollar and it was their fault, I think we can find away to restructure debt and allow those who did their part to get what is owed.
 
With respect to the pensioners --was Detroit's mismanagement their fault?

If Goldman Sachs can get 100 cents on the dollar and it was their fault, I think we can find away to restructure debt and allow those who did their part to get what is owed.

Perhaps not, but it's part of life; unfortunately that's how finance works.

The pensioners will receive thru the PGBC a portion of their income up to about $60k a year for those 65+ and reduced amounts for younger ones. That is already law since 1974 (ERISA) and updated in 2006 (PPA). It could be worst: they could get zero. So we've taken care of the pensioners already.
We don't need to bailout Detroit to help them.

What does GS have to do with anything?
 
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I was born in Detroit...

Thank god my parents had the good sense to move out while it was still in its heyday. That being said, while one can see your sarcasm as it drips in globs down on your tie, I do not believe in bailing anybody, or any entity, out when they self inflict by not making the hard decisions you need to be making along the way in order to arrive at that better ending. Detroit is just a canary in the cave regarding the unsustainable. We can also look across the pond at Europe. If we continue making bad decisions, keep spending money we do not have on things government has no business... well, I do not think there will be anybody bailing us out when we misstep on that precipice... and we will have deserved it knowing what we do now... with such vivid examples right before our very eyes.

Good morning, gaughingcatenate. :2wave:

:agree: Excellent post. :thumbs: If we do one bailout, the line that will then form will resemble shoppers on Black Friday at WalMart. The "Emergency Manager in Detroit" idea is probably the best first step to take, since it should take emotions out of the picture, which is sorely needed where money is concerned, IMO.
 
The nature of America is that we help each other in time of need. Some areas of the nation are prone to certain natural disasters and the rest of the nation is constantly coming to their aid. And that is what is expected as Americans.
 
Good morning, gaughingcatenate. :2wave:

:agree: Excellent post. :thumbs: If we do one bailout, the line that will then form will resemble shoppers on Black Friday at WalMart. The "Emergency Manager in Detroit" idea is probably the best first step to take, since it should take emotions out of the picture, which is sorely needed where money is concerned, IMO.

Good morning polgara,

Thanks, and totally agree with your analogy to Walmart. There is no doubt a need for an Emergency Manager, but who talented enough would actually want to be there nowadays? I expect there are some great deals on real estate, it was once one of the crown jewels when our auto industry was on top. So, it has all the basics to be great again, just needs good solid management [ i.e, less liberal "progress" and more republican and conservative values, organization, incentives and hard work ].

I would like to see this happening more of the time.... Panhandler Pranks Entire Subway Car (VIDEO)
 
The nature of America is that we help each other in time of need. Some areas of the nation are prone to certain natural disasters and the rest of the nation is constantly coming to their aid. And that is what is expected as Americans.

Done that: it's called the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. The nature of America is personal responsibility and that includes cities.
 
Done that: it's called the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. The nature of America is personal responsibility and that includes cities.

And how does that program help Detroit and its people?

Could you wax eloquently for a few minutes about personal responsibility and accepting the consequences of your choices for living in a flood plain?

Could you discuss the elements of accepting personal responsibility of living along the coast where destructive and deadly seasonal storms are merely par for the course?

Could you pontificate about the duty to accept responsibility of living in a part of the nation where a fault exists in the earth and earthquakes are inevitable?

Could you educate us about the duty to accept personal responsibility of living in a part of the country with precious little water which has to be expensively taken from other areas of the nation just so others can live in that climate?

Could you inform us about the duty to accept personal responsibility for living in a tornado alley which you know darn well is subject to a high probability of damage on a somewhat regular basis?

Please do illuminate the dark recesses of our minds on all these things connected with personal responsibility.
 
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The nature of America is that we help each other in time of need. Some areas of the nation are prone to certain natural disasters and the rest of the nation is constantly coming to their aid. And that is what is expected as Americans.

Natural distastes are one thing, everybody can get on board with helping out those who are hurt through no fault of their own. But when someone keeps gambling, with their own and other people's money, we don't just open up our bank accounts to help them. Enabling will never solve the problem, they need to learn their lesson, pay for their mistakes instead of having everyone else paying for them. They need to understand and be made to own up to the consequences of their actions/inactions.
 
Natural distastes are one thing, everybody can get on board with helping out those who are hurt through no fault of their own. But when someone keeps gambling, with their own and other people's money, we don't just open up our bank accounts to help them. Enabling will never solve the problem, they need to learn their lesson, pay for their mistakes instead of having everyone else paying for them. They need to understand and be made to own up to the consequences of their actions/inactions.

so you are saying we should make the banks who gambled everything on selling sub prime mortgages pay for their mistakes instead of forceing the rest of america to pay for their folly?
 
Natural distastes are one thing, everybody can get on board with helping out those who are hurt through no fault of their own. But when someone keeps gambling, with their own and other people's money, we don't just open up our bank accounts to help them. Enabling will never solve the problem, they need to learn their lesson, pay for their mistakes instead of having everyone else paying for them. They need to understand and be made to own up to the consequences of their actions/inactions.

Actually a natural disaster is no different than any other disaster in that it hurts Americans and requires aid to them. You say "through no fault of their own". Really? Who forced or imprisoned those people to live along the Eastern seaboard or the Gulf Coast? Who sentenced people to live in a hurricane prone area or a tornado alley? Who imprisoned the people along river flood plains? Who doomed innocent people to live on earthquake fault lines?

And what exactly are you punishing people in Detroit for that you want them to accept "the consequences of their actions"? Are they to be punished because they performed a job for thirty or forty years and fulfilled their end of that contract and now want the other party to uphold their end? That is something you condemn as a bad action?
 
AArrggh! How hard is it to understand? NO BAILOUTS! People need to stop thinking that government has an unlimited fund of money (regardless of fiat cash) and can just pour it onto any fire we cry about. The money comes from US, the citizens. The government uses this idea to promote deficit spending...and here we are trillions in debt.

If a city get's into financial troubles it is up to the local citizenry to FIX it. That means sitting down together and facing FACTS!!! Then coming up with a proper plan that deals with REALITY!

Geeez, does everyone think they deserve free and unlimited access to tax dollars?
 
so you are saying we should make the banks who gambled everything on selling sub prime mortgages pay for their mistakes instead of forceing the rest of america to pay for their folly?

Yes.

Plus take the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac officers who misled us, as well as the legislators who actively failed to maintain oversight, who stopped the investigations, as well as the Politicians that introduced, promulgated and foisted the Community Reinvestment Act on the country should have to forfeit all their wealth and dispersed fortunes [collected from family and friends] as well... maybe put them in all in jail for a long long time, send a nice message out there to those who bent, and who in the future would bend, the nation over and ....
 
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