Politicians' silence on Iraq speaks volumes

[Simon W. Moon]

]Damn I am so tired of liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad...

You can stop imagining it whenever, you'd like.

 

[Deegan]

IIRC, it's $1/yr and Cuba doesn't cash the checks.

They cashed one check, and that is all it took.

"The United States Navy has held a base at a portion of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, since 1898. The United States government possesses a lease to this land, which only mutual agreement or United States abandonment of the area can terminate. The present Cuban government of Fidel Castro disputes this arrangement, claiming Cuba was not truly sovereign at the time of the signing. The United States argues this point moot because Cuba apparently ratified the lease post-revolution, and with full sovereignty, when it cashed one rent check in accordance with the disputed treaty."

 

[YNKYH8R]

There is no need, as it's most certainly the case. The war was more about oil, then it was a real friendship. Kuwait was not an enemy, but was certainly no friend, and either was S.A, except to Bush 1, and others in the oil business. The fact that we took Saddam out of the country, and restored the country of Kuwait to the people, this is what is most important. We also were protecting S.A from being the next on Saddams hit list, and the bases we set up there, they have caused much trouble for our nation. We never asked for any thanks, just the the precious supply of oil, the oil that keeps our economy running, that this not be disrupted. There is certainly nothing to be ashamed of in that reason, as the entire world faced the same problem.

You see...deep inside I'm a Cubs fan too.:mrgreen:

 

[YNKYH8R]

Would you mind citing your source or providing a link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war

 

[Iriemon]

But what if a "regular-Con" says it and you start to realize that not everyone that agrees with the President on certain issues is a "Neo-Con" and find your repeated use of the term as offensive as when a forum member repeatedly says that "Liberalism is a mental disorder" and gets himself suspended for a few days...

Then what?...

huh? I didn't say neoconsism is a mental order or anything derogatory about neocons, except in my opinion they have been wrong about numerous things concerning Iraq, so that I personally don't accept neocon propositions about Iraq as verbatim.

 

[KCConservative]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war

From your link:

"The United States gave several public justifications for involvement in the conflict. The first reason given was the importance of the United States' longstanding friendly relationship with Saudi Arabia. However, some Americans were dissatisfied with this explanation and "No Blood For Oil" became a rallying cry for domestic opponents of the war, though they never reached the size of opposition to the Vietnam War. Later justifications for the war included Iraq's history of human rights abuses under President Saddam Hussein, the potential that Iraq may develop nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction, and that "naked aggression will not stand."

"At the break of dawn on August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops crossed the Kuwaiti border with armor and infantry, occupying strategic posts throughout the country, including the Emir's palace. The Kuwaiti Army was quickly overwhelmed, though they bought enough time for the Kuwaiti Air Force to flee to Saudi Arabia. The heaviest fighting occurred at the Emir's Palace, where members of the royal guard fought a rear guard action to allow the royal family time to escape. A cousin of the Emir, who commanded the guard, was amongst those killed. Troops looted medical and food supplies, detained thousands of civilians and took over the media. Iraq detained thousands of Western visitors as hostages and later attempted to use them as bargaining chips. After a brief puppet government headed by Alaa Hussein Ali was installed, Iraq annexed Kuwait. Hussein then installed a new Iraqi provincial governor, describing this as "liberation" from the Kuwaiti Emir; this was largely dismissed as war propaganda."

 

[YNKYH8R]

Did you even read what you printed. "Later Justifications" That's one of those "our cause wasn't good enough so we made up something that seemed more credable". Kind of like the hunt for WMD. They couldn't find them so they turn around say "we're here to liberate the country". Flip-Flop.

The GOP was hoping the ends would justify the means. We went to Iraq and the middle east not because human blood was being shed but the fear a drop of oil would be spilled.

Like after 9/11 anyone in this country really gave a damn about the opression of the Iraqis. I know that was on my mind on the 12th and 13th...yeah right.

Now we're stuck and the US military ahs to clean up the mess. The best corporate take overs in the world are the ones where you can send in soldiers to do your work for you. War, paid for by tax dollars, while oil companies don't have to acount for high profits. If all goes according to plan in 20 years those oil companies in America will have the capital to buy out oil companies in Iraq, through stock shares, and make even more money. It's a coporate take over of the Midle East. Ain't Democracy great.

Give the Vets a hand.:applaud

 

[KCConservative]

"Later Justifications" That's one of those "our cause wasn't good enough so we made up something that seemed more credable".

Kind of like the hunt for WMD. They couldn't find them so they turn around say "we're here to liberate the country". Flip-Flop.

The GOP was hoping the ends would justify the means. We went to Iraq and the middle east not because human blood was being shed but the fear a drop of oil would be spilled.

War, paid for by tax dollars, while oil companies don't have to acount for high profits.

It's a coporate take over of the Midle East.

What makes these statements true for you? There needs to be more to your claims besides your own partisan opinion. Read your link.

Here's more:

"...former United States Assistant Secretary of Defense Noel Koch later stated, "No one had any doubts about [the Iraqis'] continued involvement in terrorism....The real reason was to help them succeed in the war against Iran."

"...the stated goals of the invasion, according to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, were:

Self-defense
-find and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, weapons programs, and terrorists
-collect intelligence on networks of weapons of mass destruction and terrorists
Humanitarian
-end sanctions and to deliver humanitarian support (According to Madeline Albright, half a million Iraqi children had died because of sanctions.)
-United Nations Security Council (UNSC) Resolution
Resolution 1205, made in 1999.
Regime Change
-end the Saddam Hussein government
-help Iraq's transition to democratic self-rule
Other
-secure Iraq's oil fields and other resources

Many staff and supporters within the Bush administration had other, more ambitious goals for the war as well. Many claimed that the war could act as a catalyst for democracy and peace in the Middle East, and that once Iraq became democratic and prosperous other nations would quickly follow suit due to this demonstration effect, and thus the social environment that allowed terrorism to flourish would be eliminated."

 

[YNKYH8R]

Oh I didn’t say any of what is possibly going on is illegal it is in act very legal. It is just unethical. Even if it is the truth it is just a by product wrapped in an American flag and called democracy. It’s actually kind of brilliant make up some story that seems real enough o be true and it doesn’t even have to be. The hidden agenda is just as I’ve stated.

Considering how this war has been run by Rumsfeld and the rest of the administration there is little point of taking much of what they say as being truth.

Hell even if the lie found out it is discarded as a mistake. “It was someone else’s mistake; oops!” The true problem is no one wants to hold any accountability. Because deep down inside no one cares. It doesn’t matter to most people who support this war that a lie was the vehicle of choice to drive it.

All they care about is end results, revenge, and not having egg on their face. As long as it looks and feels and smells like democracy we win. Right? Who cares anyway. Gas prices are too high and there is still a hole in NY where two buildings used to be. It’s all about pay back.

Pure genius, they get ¼ of the population pissed off, and ¾ of the population so scared that invading Iraq is the only possible solution. “All your fears will be abated if we go to Iraq”. “If we don’t go to Iraq we’ll look like cowards.” Hell, I’m surprised they didn’t promise my darks to be darker and my lights to be lighter if we went to Iraq.

In the end all we did was do Iran a big favor. And **** off a lot of people and make America look like it would sell out it’s own soldiers to turn buck.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

What makes these statements true for you? There needs to be more to your claims besides your own partisan opinion. Read your link.

Here's more:

"...former United States Assistant Secretary of Defense Noel Koch later stated, "No one had any doubts about [the Iraqis'] continued involvement in terrorism....The real reason was to help them succeed in the war against Iran."

"...the stated goals of the invasion, according to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, were:

Self-defense
-find and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, weapons programs, and terrorists
-collect intelligence on networks of weapons of mass destruction and terrorists
Humanitarian
-end sanctions and to deliver humanitarian support (According to Madeline Albright, half a million Iraqi children had died because of sanctions.)
-United Nations Security Council (UNSC) Resolution
Resolution 1205, made in 1999.
Regime Change
-end the Saddam Hussein government
-help Iraq's transition to democratic self-rule
Other
-secure Iraq's oil fields and other resources

Many staff and supporters within the Bush administration had other, more ambitious goals for the war as well. Many claimed that the war could act as a catalyst for democracy and peace in the Middle East, and that once Iraq became democratic and prosperous other nations would quickly follow suit due to this demonstration effect, and thus the social environment that allowed terrorism to flourish would be eliminated."

Where'd you get this nifty list?

 

[SixStringHero]

Oh I didn’t say any of what is possibly going on is illegal it is in act very legal. It is just unethical. Even if it is the truth it is just a by product wrapped in an American flag and called democracy. It’s actually kind of brilliant make up some story that seems real enough o be true and it doesn’t even have to be. The hidden agenda is just as I’ve stated.

Considering how this war has been run by Rumsfeld and the rest of the administration there is little point of taking much of what they say as being truth.

Hell even if the lie found out it is discarded as a mistake. “It was someone else’s mistake; oops!” The true problem is no one wants to hold any accountability. Because deep down inside no one cares. It doesn’t matter to most people who support this war that a lie was the vehicle of choice to drive it.

All they care about is end results, revenge, and not having egg on their face. As long as it looks and feels and smells like democracy we win. Right? Who cares anyway. Gas prices are too high and there is still a hole in NY where two buildings used to be. It’s all about pay back.

Pure genius, they get ¼ of the population pissed off, and ¾ of the population so scared that invading Iraq is the only possible solution. “All your fears will be abated if we go to Iraq”. “If we don’t go to Iraq we’ll look like cowards.” Hell, I’m surprised they didn’t promise my darks to be darker and my lights to be lighter if we went to Iraq.

In the end all we did was do Iran a big favor. And **** off a lot of people and make America look like it would sell out it’s own soldiers to turn buck.

What lie are we talking about here?

 

[Navy Pride]

You can stop imagining it whenever, you'd like.

Do you not believe that Saddam had Rape rooms and torture chambers?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Do you not believe that Saddam had Rape rooms and torture chambers?

As a general rule, when someone quotes a post then posts something along with it, it is a response to the post that they quoted.

So, if you will re-examine my post that you are quoting and responding to, you'll see that I was responding to your post of, "Damn I am so tired of liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad..."

Then I said that you could stop imagining it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"] whenever you'd like. So, you don't have to tired of it. You have brought it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"] into existence w/ your imagination and you are free to stop imagining it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"] now that you're tired of it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"].

 

[Navy Pride]

As a general rule, when someone quotes a post then posts something along with it, it is a response to the post that they quoted.

So, if you will re-examine my post that you are quoting and responding to, you'll see that I was responding to your post of, "Damn I am so tired of liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad..."

Then I said that you could stop imagining it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"] whenever you'd like. So, you don't have to tired of it. You have brought it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"] into existence w/ your imagination and you are free to stop imagining it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"] now that you're tired of it [& by it I mean the "liberal apologizing for the Butcher of Baghdad"].

Well when someone tells me there is no proof that Saddam had Rape Rooms and Torture Chambers I can only surmise that they are defending Saddam.........

 

[KCConservative]

Where'd you get this nifty list?

It comes from YNKYH8R's link. He provided it to support his claim that the war is only about oil. I've been using the exact same link to show that the war is about much more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war

 

[akyron]

It comes from YNKYH8R's link. He provided it to support his claim that the war is only about oil. I've been using the exact same link to show that the war is about much more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war

You are so sneaky that way to use someones own link to beat them down.


Lazy...

 

[Simon W. Moon]

It comes from YNKYH8R's link. He provided it to support his claim that the war is only about oil. I've been using the exact same link to show that the war is about much more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war

cool thanks.

I hope it's as well sourced as I'd like.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

You mean this one instead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

And it's not as well sourced as I would have liked. Ahh well.

 

[YNKYH8R]

What makes these statements true for you? There needs to be more to your claims besides your own partisan opinion. Read your link.

Here's more:

"...former United States Assistant Secretary of Defense Noel Koch later stated, "No one had any doubts about [the Iraqis'] continued involvement in terrorism....The real reason was to help them succeed in the war against Iran."

"...the stated goals of the invasion, according to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, were:

Self-defense
-find and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, weapons programs, and terrorists
-collect intelligence on networks of weapons of mass destruction and terrorists
Humanitarian
-end sanctions and to deliver humanitarian support (According to Madeline Albright, half a million Iraqi children had died because of sanctions.)
-United Nations Security Council (UNSC) Resolution
Resolution 1205, made in 1999.
Regime Change
-end the Saddam Hussein government
-help Iraq's transition to democratic self-rule
Other
-secure Iraq's oil fields and other resources

Many staff and supporters within the Bush administration had other, more ambitious goals for the war as well. Many claimed that the war could act as a catalyst for democracy and peace in the Middle East, and that once Iraq became democratic and prosperous other nations would quickly follow suit due to this demonstration effect, and thus the social environment that allowed terrorism to flourish would be eliminated."

So far the only thing here that is actual truth here is the regime changs bit. Like stated in post #59.
We're not stupid people; read between the lines. You can't possibly say that the scenario I wrote is not an actual probability.

 

[KCConservative]

We're not stupid people; read between the lines.

It's your link, YNK, not mine. You can read between the lines if you like. I'll read the actual lines.

 

[YNKYH8R]

It's your link, YNK, not mine. You can read between the lines if you like. I'll read the actual lines.

See this is what I was talking about. People who support this war are more willing to take the “reasons” as they spoon fed to them with out questioning true motives. They are more satisfied that what is presented is the absolute truth.

If that is the route you choose to travel on that is your choice. But when the crap really starts to fly and everything is upside down and not as it seems then you’ll truly understand what it is that I’m saying.

I chose not to wear blinders.

 

[KCConservative]

See this is what I was talking about. People who support this war are more willing to take the “reasons” as they spoon fed to them with out questioning true motives. They are more satisfied that what is presented is the absolute truth.

If that is the route you choose to travel on that is your choice. But when the crap really starts to fly and everything is upside down and not as it seems then you’ll truly understand what it is that I’m saying.

I chose to wear blinders.

What leads you to think I have been spoon fed anything? You say I am more "satisfied with what is presented" then the "absolute truth", yet you haven't proven anything to be truth. You (and others) make a lot of claims. You regurgitate the left wing talking points. You chant "Bush lied, people died." I get all that. But where is your "absolute truth?" Yes, I accept what the president is telling me. Hwever, if you want to make claims that he is lying, then by all means, back it up with something.

By the way, take a look at my new sig:

"I choose to wear blinders."
- YNKYH8R

 

[YNKYH8R]

Thank you for picking up on my error.

 

[YNKYH8R]

So then you don't see a connection between tax cuts for the rich (especially the American Oil Companies), an unjustified war in a country that is oil rich, an Administration made up of former corporates of industries in Oil, and warfare technologies? Like I ssaid it is all legal just unethical.

Without a doubt very suspicious.

 

[KCConservative]

Without a doubt very suspicious.

Especially to Bush haters with elections approaching. What say we get back to the thread title?