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Politicians' silence on Iraq speaks volumes

YNKYH8R

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The reality Ben knows in Iraq today is very different from the made-up version that the Bush administration tries to shove down our throats.
The Iraqis do not want us to occupy their country. They are angry at us for devastating their country, for killing and maiming their citizens and for destroying their economy.

'STOP LOSS' EQUALS SERVITUDE

I have seen the disgraceful pictures of a butchered Fallujah, images that my country is ashamed to show its citizens. Do Americans really approve of what are usually classified as crimes against humanity? Why won't Sen. Collins hold public meetings on the war in Iraq to discuss this, and the torture, and the slaughter, and the obscene costs of this war?
I recently met with Sen. Olympia Snowe and asked her if she understood "stop loss," the term for the military's authority to hold onto troops after their enlistments are up, a virtual license to enslave soldiers. She said she knew the term.

'ADDICTED TO RE-ELECTION'
Rep. Tom Allen is proud of voting against the war in Iraq. He blames the Republicans who control government for avoiding an inquiry into the Bush administration's stated justifications for the war in Iraq.
Unfortunately, Allen has supported the war by voting for the supplemental budget requests to finance the war ever since, and he has done this in virtual silence. Why doesn't Allen recognize that the war in Iraq isn't just a Republican or Democratic problem?

- Special to the Press Herald
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/viewpoints/mvoice/051128mv.shtml
 
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YNKYH8R said:
The Iraqis do not want us to occupy their country.

Why are we really at war in Iraq?
What a coincidence. We don't want to 'occupy' Iraq either. And you know all the reasons why we are there, you just don't want to accept them - which is fine. You don't have to agree.

For the record, the eight soldiers in Iraq that I correspond with disagree with Ben's version of the story. They see the overall good that is coming from our efforts. They see a bright future for Iraq without tyranny and oppression. They celebrate their freedom and their new constitution. They appreciate the reconstruction of buildings and infra-structure that were crippled during the strikes leading up to the liberation. And finally, they see the light at the end of this tunnel - with Iraq standing strong on her own and our troops coming home in victory over terror and insurgency.
 

YNKYH8R

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KCConservative said:
What a coincidence. We don't want to 'occupy' Iraq either. And you know all the reasons why we are there, you just don't want to accept them - which is fine. You don't have to agree.

For the record, the eight soldiers in Iraq that I correspond with disagree with Ben's version of the story. They see the overall good that is coming from our efforts. They see a bright future for Iraq without tyranny and oppression. They celebrate their freedom and their new constitution. They appreciate the reconstruction of buildings and infra-structure that were crippled during the strikes leading up to the liberation. And finally, they see the light at the end of this tunnel - with Iraq standing strong on her own and our troops coming home in victory over terror and insurgency.
First of all these are not my words; it is an editorial from our local paper. Secondly, everyone's experiences in Iraq differ.
 
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YNKYH8R said:
First of all these are not my words; it is an editorial from our local paper. Secondly, everyone's experiences in Iraq differ.
An Op/Ed piece. Thanks for pointing that out. :2wave:
 

Simon W. Moon

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[MOD MODE]
Please do not post entire articles

per Forum Rules

8. Copyrighted Material - All material posted from copyrighted material MUST contain a link to the original work.
Please do not post entire articles. Proper format is to paraphrase the contents of an article and/or post relevant excerpts and then link to the rest. Best bet is to always reference the original source.
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

[/MOD MODE]
 

YNKYH8R

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Simon W. Moon said:
[MOD MODE]
Please do not post entire articles

per Forum Rules

8. Copyrighted Material - All material posted from copyrighted material MUST contain a link to the original work.
Please do not post entire articles. Proper format is to paraphrase the contents of an article and/or post relevant excerpts and then link to the rest. Best bet is to always reference the original source.
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

[/MOD MODE]
Although I did provide a link from now on I will shorten my pieces; thank you.
 

Calm2Chaos

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I have no doubt the iraqi people are clammering for life to go back to the way it was. The rape rooms, the torture rooms, mass graves, poverty. Dissapearing relatives and opression... YAAAAA we want that back !!!!
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
I have no doubt the iraqi people are clammering for life to go back to the way it was. The rape rooms, the torture rooms, mass graves, poverty. Dissapearing relatives and opression... YAAAAA we want that back !!!!
I had asked about evidence of rape rooms on another thread (starting here: http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=147136&postcount=78) and the only somewhat credible evidence was an amnesty international article stating that among other devices, rape was used in Hussein's Iraq as a torture vehicle. But nothing about rape rooms. And the veracity of Amnesty claim was put into question because the statements of that organization about US acts were deemed by the proponent to be unreliable.

Are you aware of any site that provides a credible description of evidence of these "rape rooms"?
 

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Iriemon said:
I had asked about evidence of rape rooms on another thread (starting here: http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=147136&postcount=78) and the only somewhat credible evidence was an amnesty international article stating that among other devices, rape was used in Hussein's Iraq as a torture vehicle. But nothing about rape rooms. And the veracity of Amnesty claim was put into question because the statements of that organization about US acts were deemed by the proponent to be unreliable.

Are you aware of any site that provides a credible description of evidence of these "rape rooms"?
They looked pretty real to me.

As far as this thread....the current happenings in Iraq have put all of our stupid politicians on a more level field.

Republicans = "We will stay until the job is done. Things in Iraq are better than the media is portraying."

Democrats = "We need a timeline. We are going to be there forever just like Vietnam."

Iraqi government = "We want a timeline based on our continued troop training and security forces. Next year we will be about 75 percent complete."


I believe the "silence" pretty much proves to all that our "stupid" politicians weren't as "stupid" as they pretended to be this whole time. It is no secret that we have been looking for a pull out next year since the beginning of the summer. Clammoring about and looking for any desperate edge to dig into the other political party over this is petty politics for the sake of consistency.
 
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Iriemon

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GySgt said:
They looked pretty real to me.
And you said there were pictures of such rooms; which I had asked you to link to.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Iriemon said:
I had asked about evidence of rape rooms on another thread (starting here: http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=147136&postcount=78) and the only somewhat credible evidence was an amnesty international article stating that among other devices, rape was used in Hussein's Iraq as a torture vehicle. But nothing about rape rooms. And the veracity of Amnesty claim was put into question because the statements of that organization about US acts were deemed by the proponent to be unreliable.

Are you aware of any site that provides a credible description of evidence of these "rape rooms"?
Alright you got me ..... To the best of my knowledge there were no specific rooms set aside with large neon signs that stated "Husseins house of rape". Nor were there any rooms with signs reading "Torture tap room and grill". Knowing the lack of clearly posted signage definetly negates all acounts of rape and torture in the country of iraq. I am not exactly sure why we just didn't look for those neon signs with our satalites and go directly there.
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
Alright you got me ..... To the best of my knowledge there were no specific rooms set aside with large neon signs that stated "Husseins house of rape". Nor were there any rooms with signs reading "Torture tap room and grill". Knowing the lack of clearly posted signage definetly negates all acounts of rape and torture in the country of iraq. I am not exactly sure why we just didn't look for those neon signs with our satalites and go directly there.
LOL

Classic.
 

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Iriemon said:
And you said there were pictures of such rooms; which I had asked you to link to.

Here's a tip...there's an entire world outside your Internet. Not everything exists on a "link."

Look up his sons. You'll get a wealth of information regarding their practices.
 

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GySgt said:
Here's a tip...there's an entire world outside your Internet. Not everything exists on a "link."

Look up his sons. You'll get a wealth of information regarding their practices.
Indeed, his sons home was one big rape room, I really don't understand why some are questioning this so eagerly?:confused:
 

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Iriemon said:
And you said there were pictures of such rooms; which I had asked you to link to.
There have been hundreds of Iraqis testify to the existence of rape rooms.......Do you think they are all liars?

As far as us being occupiers that is just false..........Countries that occupy have no plans to leave..........We will leave when the job is done or when the duly elected Iraqi government asks us to do so.........That is a huge difference........
 

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Navy Pride said:
There have been hundreds of Iraqis testify to the existence of rape rooms.......Do you think they are all liars?

As far as us being occupiers that is just false..........Countries that occupy have no plans to leave..........We will leave when the job is done or when the duly elected Iraqi government asks us to do so.........That is a huge difference........
Okay...then as far as you know there are no plans to have a permanent US presence in Iraq?
 

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YNKYH8R said:
Okay...then as far as you know there are no plans to have a permanent US presence in Iraq?
Now we can all know.

Engineer support teams build logistical hub in Iraq
By Grant Sattler
Coalition Provisional Authority


Johnson is a project manager in the environmental branch at Europe District. He deployed to Turkey in April for a month for the planned push into Iraq from the north, returned to Germany, and then deployed to Iraq in July with a multi-district Tiger Team engaged in master planning for the permanent bases in Iraq, working at Al Taji north of Baghdad.

Johnson said his major projects on LSA Anaconda are building a Class 8 warehouse for medical supplies, building a theater postal distribution facility, and building an 800,000-square-foot concrete parking apron for both the Air Force and Army. The warehouse is mechanically complicated because of refrigeration for blood supplies and security for narcotics.
Meet the 389th Engineers, Davenport component
March 14, 2004
He understood Camp Victory to be the largest combat base project since Vietnam. It required filling nearly five miles of deep irrigation ditches with more than 185,000 tons of rubble, the clearing of acres of wheat fields, and the laying of gravel and building roads.

It's to be one of eight long-term bases American troops plan to use on Baghdad's outskirts in a move out of the city center to coincide with the return of sovereignty to the nation on June 30.
[and]

By late January 2004 engineers from the 1st Armored Division were midway through an $800 million project to build half a dozen camps for the incoming 1st Cavalry Division. Army planners expected to finish by 15 March 2004. The new outposts, dubbed Enduring Camps, will improve living quarters for soldiers and allow the military to return key infrastructure sites within the Iraqi capital to the emerging government, military leaders said. “The plan is for the camps to last five to 10 years,” said Col. Lou Marich, commander of the 1st AD engineers. “They will last longer if we take care of them.”
 

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YNKYH8R said:
Okay...then as far as you know there are no plans to have a permanent US presence in Iraq?
We may keep a small contigent of troops there if the Iraqis want us to.......Don't know if you realize it but WW2 has been over for 60 years and we still have troops in Germany and Japan........We laso have troops in South Korea...........Do you consider us occupiers of those 3 countries?
 

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We have never stayed where we were not welcome, I don't know why Iraq would be any different?:confused:
 

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Originally Posted by Iriemon
I had asked about evidence of rape rooms on another thread (starting here: http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=78) and the only somewhat credible evidence was an amnesty international article stating that among other devices, rape was used in Hussein's Iraq as a torture vehicle. But nothing about rape rooms. And the veracity of Amnesty claim was put into question because the statements of that organization about US acts were deemed by the proponent to be unreliable.

Are you aware of any site that provides a credible description of evidence of these "rape rooms"?
Calm2Chaos said:
Alright you got me ..... To the best of my knowledge there were no specific rooms set aside with large neon signs that stated "Husseins house of rape". Nor were there any rooms with signs reading "Torture tap room and grill". Knowing the lack of clearly posted signage definetly negates all acounts of rape and torture in the country of iraq. I am not exactly sure why we just didn't look for those neon signs with our satalites and go directly there.
GySgt said:
Here's a tip...there's an entire world outside your Internet. Not everything exists on a "link."

Look up his sons. You'll get a wealth of information regarding their practices.
Navy Pride said:
There have been hundreds of Iraqis testify to the existence of rape rooms.......Do you think they are all liars?
Deegan said:
Indeed, his sons home was one big rape room, I really don't understand why some are questioning this so eagerly?:confused:
Hmmmm. People post assertions about rape rooms, I ask for sources verifying the claim, and for the second thread now, I get no links to sources, but posts like these -- as if asking someone to back up their assertion is unheard of around here.

I actually did a brief amount of research on the subject of rape rooms. I found lots of quotes by Bush and other neocons talking about Hussein's rape rooms, and lots of porn sites, but nothing that actually substantiates whether the existed.

I don't necessarily deny Hussein maintained "rape rooms", but I do question it, based on the fact that so many other assertions by the neocons have proven false or exagerrated.

The four above responses, none of which actually provide any data that backs up the assertion, reinforces my suspicions.
 

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Navy Pride said:
We may keep a small contigent of troops there if the Iraqis want us to.......Don't know if you realize it but WW2 has been over for 60 years and we still have troops in Germany and Japan........We laso have troops in South Korea...........Do you consider us occupiers of those 3 countries?
The difference is our troops aren't there to prop up the governments from their own people
 

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Iriemon said:
The difference is our troops aren't there to prop up the governments from their own people
And neither will be ours..............
 

Navy Pride

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Hmmmm. People post assertions about rape rooms,
Why is the word of the Iraqi people not good enough for you? Why do you question their honesty?
 

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Navy Pride said:
Why is the word of the Iraqi people not good enough for you? Why do you question their honesty?
Could be. Link to the statements?
 

Navy Pride

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Iriemon said:
Could be. Link to the statements?
There have been specials on CNN about Saddams rape rooms........You must be the only person in this country who has not heard about them or maybe its your bias...........nah.......:roll:
 
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