Politicians getting paid...

[Helix]

The younger kids will certainly be suffering from Obamacare sticker shock at least when they turn 27 and can no longer remain on mommy and daddy's policy. However the smart kids will work out that single payer is not the answer either. As you know, it would just be Medicare for all. And I if Medicare went from just the seniors to everyone, it would blow up the monthly premiums. That would be the only way the government could have any chance in hell of paying for it. Right now, it costs less because the providers shift many of the costs over to those not on Medicare. If everyone goes on Medicare, who do you think those costs will shift to? And if we eliminate the profit incentive from healthcare, we get rationing as the number of hospitals, clinics, doctors, etc will shrink rapidly. And again, the only reason other nations get away with it is the United States for all practical purposes are providing for their military defense. Most refuse to pay even 2% of their GDP for their own defense. And we are in effect subsidizing Canada's prescription drug market. My advice is to think in terms of what works here instead of defaulting to what you works elsewhere. Every nation's conditions are not the same. And most do not have the jackpot frivolous malpractice lawsuit system that we have.

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they're already suffering. many have accumulated crushing debt just to have access to jobs that don't even pay as well as they would need to pay it off quickly. i really doubt that they're going to care about irrational fear of first world health care solutions. that will be vastly preferable to the lousy health insurance that they're being offered by their employers which they could lose to an arbitrary middle management staffing decision any given Friday.

nope. single payer is a much better option.

 

[Idiometer]

Sorry you lose credibility when you toss it at Trump. In my lifetime, the only president with any traits toward a dictatorship was Barack Obama, especially in his second term when he started bypassing Congress with executive orders. And from his first term, Obamacare started with two authoritarian mandates, one of which still remains.

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No, the people who have lost credibilty are those too blind to see through this obvious flim flam man. And Obama only bypassed congress when it was an important issue that the GOP-led congress refused to hear. Remember, McConnell said very publicly that their only goal was to make Obama a one term president. When the people re-elected Obama, the GOP got even nastier.

If Obama had wanted to make it a dictatorship, why wasn't he the one making noises about changing the two term restriction? No, that's Trump who has made those little squeeky noises.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

they're already suffering. many have accumulated crushing debt just to have access to jobs that don't even pay as well as they would need to pay it off quickly. i really doubt that they're going to care about irrational fear of first world health care solutions. that will be vastly preferable to the lousy health insurance that they're being offered by their employers which they could lose to an arbitrary middle management staffing decision any given Friday.

nope. single payer is a much better option.

If we ever get to a single payer system, which would be extremely doubtful in your lifetime or mine, you would in short order demand something else, because single payer(medicare for all) would not work function as well as it does for seniors. Without an exisiting healthcare for profit system, it would all be taxpayer funded....and the premiums for Medicare, now in the 130s or $240s depending on your income, would rise so fast and so often that those now screaming for single payer would have a meltdown. Healthcare costs would soon match or exceed what most are paying now. And it would be rationed healthcare. Need to see a specialist.....go on a waiting list. Need surgery? if it's not a dire emergency.....go on a waiting list. Single payer in the US is nothing but a utopian dream where most who are pushing for it are completely unaware of what it will ultimately cost them.

 

[Helix]

If we ever get to a single payer system, which would be extremely doubtful in your lifetime or mine, you would in short order demand something else, because single payer(medicare for all) would not work function as well as it does for seniors. Without an exisiting healthcare for profit system, it would all be taxpayer funded....and the premiums for Medicare, now in the 130s or $240s depending on your income, would rise so fast and so often that those now screaming for single payer would have a meltdown. Healthcare costs would soon match or exceed what most are paying now. And it would be rationed healthcare. Need to see a specialist.....go on a waiting list. Need surgery? if it's not a dire emergency.....go on a waiting list. Single payer in the US is nothing but a utopian dream where most who are pushing for it are completely unaware of what it will ultimately cost them.

it isn't doubtful. the costs and inefficiencies of our own system are spinning out of control while the rest of the first world addressed the problem decades ago. eventually, people will get tired of it and vote out those who oppose addressing the problem.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

No, the people who have lost credibilty are those too blind to see through this obvious flim flam man. And Obama only bypassed congress when it was an important issue that the GOP-led congress refused to hear.

That remark suggests that you do not have a coherent grasp of American Government. There are three branches of government. The executive branch(the president), the legislative branch(congress), and the judicial branch(federal judges and the US Supreme Court). The US Constitution does not allow the president to bypass congress at will on legislation that congress refuses to give him, just because he wants it. We are not a monarchy. Legislation must go through congress. If the president could make law at will, that would be telling all of the American voters that their votes for Senators and Representatives are 100% meaningless.

Remember, McConnell said very publicly that their only goal was to make Obama a one term president. When the people re-elected Obama, the GOP got even nastier.

As for McConnnell publicly stating a goal of making Obama a one term president, who the hell cares? Presidential terms are four years them there is an election. I would damn well hope that every republican politician's goal was to make Obama a one term president. I hoped the same. How do you feel about your democrat party's goal of preventing Trump from even serving one full term?

If Obama had wanted to make it a dictatorship, why wasn't he the one making noises about changing the two term restriction? No, that's Trump who has made those little squeeky noises.[

Fortunately neither Obama or any other president had or has the power to repeal the 22nd Amendment. I just wish we could get a similar amendment limiting congressional terms.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

it isn't doubtful. the costs and inefficiencies of our own system are spinning out of control while the rest of the first world addressed the problem decades ago. eventually, people will get tired of it and vote out those who oppose addressing the problem.

Two points. Our inefficiencies in private healthcare have not always existed and are mostly due to overtinkering with the private healthcare system by the government. Obamacare is the nastiest example of that. Private healthcare can go back to what it once was. Government healthcare which is what a single payer Medicare for all system would be has never been efficient. Ask the veterans. Your parents may like Medicare, however it's broken and always on the brink of financial collapse. Every so often, the government applies bandaid fixes which usually mean less benefits or you have to wait longer for eligibility. Second point, other nations have not really addressed it. Both Canada and the UK have major problems keeping their systems financially propped up. And they have waiting lists. I have had eight different surgeries in my life. Under a single payer system, I would have had to deal with long waiting lists to get them and would have had to travel greater distances. All were done locally and on the average, I had the surgeries a week after being made aware that I needed them.

 

[Helix]

Two points. Our inefficiencies in private healthcare have not always existed and are mostly due to overtinkering with the private healthcare system by the government. Obamacare is the nastiest example of that. Private healthcare can go back to what it once was. Government healthcare which is what a single payer Medicare for all system would be has never been efficient. Ask the veterans. Your parents may like Medicare, however it's broken and always on the brink of financial collapse. Every so often, the government applies bandaid fixes which usually mean less benefits or you have to wait longer for eligibility. Second point, other nations have not really addressed it. Both Canada and the UK have major problems keeping their systems financially propped up. And they have waiting lists. I have had eight different surgeries in my life. Under a single payer system, I would have had to deal with long waiting lists to get them and would have had to travel greater distances. All were done locally and on the average, I had the surgeries a week after being made aware that I needed them.

i don't agree with your talking points. most other first world countries get a similar level of health care for a fraction of the price, have a higher life expectancy, and rank above us on the quality of life scale.

 

[Idiometer]

That remark suggests that you do not have a coherent grasp of American Government. There are three branches of government. The executive branch(the president), the legislative branch(congress), and the judicial branch(federal judges and the US Supreme Court). The US Constitution does not allow the president to bypass congress at will on legislation that congress refuses to give him, just because he wants it. We are not a monarchy. Legislation must go through congress. If the president could make law at will, that would be telling all of the American voters that their votes for Senators and Representatives are 100% meaningless.




As for McConnnell publicly stating a goal of making Obama a one term president, who the hell cares? Presidential terms are four years them there is an election. I would damn well hope that every republican politician's goal was to make Obama a one term president. I hoped the same. How do you feel about your democrat party's goal of preventing Trump from even serving one full term?



Fortunately neither Obama or any other president had or has the power to repeal the 22nd Amendment. I just wish we could get a similar amendment limiting congressional terms.

1. I'm sooo not in need of a civics lesson from a Trumpette.

2. I'm not a Democrat.

3. On the evening of Obama's first inauguration, Eric Cantor held a dinner party for Republicans, with the purpose of strategizing how to block everything Obama tried to do, regardless of what it might mean for we the people. Still, Obama's use of Executive Orders was no worse than Trump's, so far, and he supposedly has all of congress in his support.

 

[plutonium]

While I am all in on the shutdown for the sake of getting funding for the border wall, no, I don't think the politicians should get paid during the shutdown. I would go even farther and say they should not get back pay when the shutdown ends. However Trump only takes $1.00 in salary and gives that to charity. Perhaps if congress were not getting paid, the rank and file members of Chuckie and Nancy's party would push them to negotiate and compromise.

Trump did the shutdown not pelosi and shumer..... remember Trump said he takes full responsibility for shutdown and was very proud to say it with his chin up in the air!!! By the way why did you not get the funding for border wall in the 2 years you were in control of all 3 branches of government. HMMMMMMMMMMM i rest my case

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

i don't agree with your talking points. most other first world countries get a similar level of health care for a fraction of the price, have a higher life expectancy, and rank above us on the quality of life scale.

Once again, all is not as it seems. Long life expectancy is more about health habits then health insurance. Modern Americans in larger numbers then some of those nations have some pretty poor health habits And again, regarding the alleged fraction of a price, those other nations do not have to deal with the excessive numbers of frivolous medical practice lawsuits that we deal with in this country. For instance the average surgeon in the US has to maintain at least a one million dollar malpractice insurance policy just to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits. Same with the Pharmaceutical companies. They have to set aside billions of dollars for the same reason. Don't you think that effects the cost? Just a good dose of tort reform would go a long ways towards reducing the cost of healthcare and health insurance in the US. I sympathise with your concerns about the cost of healthcare in the US. We do need reform, however it was government that broke it. Other then passing tort reform, the best reform would be government getting out of healthcare as much as possible. Medicare for all would just break it worse. And speaking for myself, I will take American doctors, specialists, surgeons over any other nation on the planet.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

1. I'm sooo not in need of a civics lesson from a Trumpette.

You definately need a civics lesson from someone. You give the impression that you do not have the foggiest clue about the separation of powers.

2. I'm not a Democrat.

Perhaps, not, however you are quite certainly a liberal.

3. On the evening of Obama's first inauguration, Eric Cantor held a dinner party for Republicans, with the purpose of strategizing how to block everything Obama tried to do, regardless of what it might mean for we the people.

And you don't think the democrats held similar meetings with the goal of blocking everything Trump is trying to do? Whys is it alright for the democrats to do it and not the republicans?

Still, Obama's use of Executive Orders was no worse than Trump's, so far, and he supposedly has all of congress in his support.

You really do not have a clue, do you? Trump has not attempted to write legislation through executive orders. Obama did. DACA was just one example. The Paris Climate Accord and that insanely stupid Iran Nuke deal were others. Those arrangements were not worth the paper they were written on as our constitution requires such arrangements to go through a Treaty Process and be ratified by congress.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Trump did the shutdown not pelosi and shumer..... remember Trump said he takes full responsibility for shutdown and was very proud to say it with his chin up in the air!!!

Technically, Trump, Pelosi, and Schumer shut it down. Unless congress has the numbers to override a presidential veto, the bill in question needs to be passed in both houses of congress and signed by the president. Despite trump's claim of ownership, Pelosi and Schumer are just as responsible for the shutdown as Trump is. Once it was shutdown began, and Schumer and Pelosi refused to compromise, they took ownership. Trump is at least bringing offers to the table.

By the way why did you not get the funding for border wall in the 2 years you were in control of all 3 branches of government. HMMMMMMMMMMM i rest my case

Sorry, but you do not have a case. Perhaps someone has not educated you on the fact that despite the GOP having the majority in both houses of congress for two years, Trump would have needed 60 votes in the Senate to get the wall. That would have required a minimum of 9 democrat votes assuming that every republican including that turd McCain voted for it, which he was not likely to get. Understand now?

 

[marke]

If the government shuts down and federal employees are not getting paid... should the politicians keep getting paid?

No. And they should not be taking all-expense-paid trips overseas with their friends and associates while the people they oppress by their childish stubbornness and silly policies continue to suffer.

 

[Idiometer]

You definately need a civics lesson from someone. You give the impression that you do not have the foggiest clue about the separation of powers.



Perhaps, not, however you are quite certainly a liberal.



And you don't think the democrats held similar meetings with the goal of blocking everything Trump is trying to do? Whys is it alright for the democrats to do it and not the republicans?



You really do not have a clue, do you? Trump has not attempted to write legislation through executive orders. Obama did. DACA was just one example. The Paris Climate Accord and that insanely stupid Iran Nuke deal were others. Those arrangements were not worth the paper they were written on as our constitution requires such arrangements to go through a Treaty Process and be ratified by congress.

Your bad manners aside, I simply disagree with your assessment of how those branches of government should operate, as opposed to how they've been operating under Trump's highly uestionable leadership.

Trump uses EOs very liberally.

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders/donald-trump/2017

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders/donald-trump/2018

Come back and discuss when you can be civil.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Your bad manners aside, I simply disagree with your assessment of how those branches of government should operate, as opposed to how they've been operating under Trump's highly uestionable leadership.

Trump uses EOs very liberally.

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders/donald-trump/2017

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders/donald-trump/2018

Come back and discuss when you can be civil.

I am civil. I am not calling you names. I am simply pointing out that you have not shown that you have even a basic understanding about the separation of powers . As for EOs, all presidents use them liberally, however most use them legally. Obama used them quite illegally in his second term. EOs were never intended to bypass congress when they do not give you what you want legislatively. The sooner you learn that, the better.